Hello All,

I'm in the market for a 2014-2016 GL and since I'm coming from a Cayenne Diesel naturally the 350 was appealing to me at first. For reference I'm up in Alberta Canada so nice long and cold winters with a fair (50%) amount of highway driving. I've been doing a fair amount of reading both here and in the X166 section and the innitial appeal has been quite tempered. Seems like the reliability on these cars, and specifically the engine, can be suspect. Today I dived down into the "what is the right oil for this engine" rabbit hole and was quite surprised by what I found. Specifically about Mobil1 5W30ESP not being a diesel oil even though it expressly recommended by MB/VW/Porsche. I spent quite a bit of time reading through all the information on stephensservice.com and read through the bit about how ESP will cause bore polishing and hence blow-by which then has a detrimental effect on everything downstream.

So the situation is this. I've found a local to me 2014 GL350 with about 30k miles that has always been dealer serviced with Mobil1 ESP and seems to be very well taken care off. I have yet to review the service documentation but will be doing that in the next few days. I'm curious if being on a steady diet of ESP for 30k miles has already done the damage and it's to late or too risky to even bother with moving it over to a diet of something like Redline or Amsoil? Or is it early enough in its life that moving to an appropriate oil will significantly reduce the chances that ESP caused issues will occur. This is meant to be our primary car so reliability is very important to me.

Alternatively I've found a not-local to me 2017 GL450 with the spec that we're looking for, for a bit more money but still within our budget. Am I dreaming if I expect reliability out of the GL350 and should I just move to the gasser instead?

Also, I'm quite mechanically inclined and do all the maintenance work and even some of the bigger items myself. I'm quite familair with the VAG family of cars (VW, Audi and Porsche) but this would be my first foray into the MB world.

Appreciate your thoughts and advice. TIA!

 

https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/
Bookmark this page, get familiar with it and recheck for updates before each service.
With all those diesel versions flooding America in last years it is hard to keep track on them, but if I am not mistaken the 2014 GL will have no DEF, and no SCN coding, when 2017 will have both. They also will require different oil categories and Mobil1 does NOT meet 229.52 category.
Canada is just getting Bluetec settlement, who as you might learn, gave US owners AEM modifications, 4 years extended warranty and $3500 checks for "pain and suffering".
Sure lot of reading, so get adult beverage and open the google.
The only gas engine in my stable is in 1922 FordT. I will not buy anything but diesel (whenever I have a choice) OM642 engines in about 20 years of production went via lot of modifications, what makes them quite different between the years. Lovely performance, but with higher maintenance than OM651 engine.
Welcome to the forum.

 

FWIW, the 2014 GL in the USA has DEF, so I'm gonna assume the same for Canada.

 

Thanks Krzychu, I'll take a read through that link. I'm not sure about the US but up here in Canada the last year of the GL diesel was 2016. We never got one in 2017. The 2017 I mention above is a GLS450 with the twin turbo V6.

Any thoughts on the question I asked though? Is it too late to move the GL350 to a better oil? Or should I stay away? I spoke with the owner yesterday and seems to be the typical "old couple" type of vehicle. They ordered it new from the local dealer to use to cart their grand kids around but they've grown up now so the car has mostly sits in the garage. It's been religiously maintained at the dealer even to the point of oil changes being done every 6 months when it wasn't being driven a lot. We're currently in the middle of a deep freeze so when it warms up on the weekend I'm planning on heading over there to take a look.

If it wasn't for the horror stories I've been reading about the oil leaks, emissions issue and engine failures I think I'd be pulling the trigger on this.

 

It is never to late to put better oil into old engines.
That was pretty evident 20 years ago, when synthetic oils come on the market. I start putting them into old Volvo and noticed better mpg right away.
Than latest MB diesels are very touchy when it comes to oil Right in this section you will find huge topic, where owners reported several OM642 engines seized while under DEALER CARE.
When topic has no clear conclusion, the replies steer into dealers using older generations of oils, who they could buy in barrels, instead to what MB recommends.
That seems to be narrowed to OM642 engine with DEF systems, but even OM651 engines don't have the phenomena reported, I still put 229.52 oils in them.

Lepiej dmuchać na zimne niż się gorącym sparzyć

".

 

If it isn't 229.52 rated why do they say it is?

For both diesel- and gasoline-powered vehicles with emission systems

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Protects diesel and gasoline emission systems

Helps provide exceptional cleaning power, wear protection and overall performanceMobil 1™ ESP 0W-30 advanced full synthetic motor oil is expertly engineered to help prolong the life and maintain the efficiency of emission systems in both diesel and gasoline-powered automobiles. It meets or exceeds the requirements of many leading industry and car manufacturers’ standards required for newer modern diesel and gasoline-powered passenger car engines.
Recommended for many modern automobile enginesMobil 1 ESP 0W-30 motor oil is especially recommended for the high-performance gasoline and diesel engines in the latest passenger cars, SUVs and light vans. It is not recommended for two-cycle or aviation engines unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.
Especially suitable for extreme conditionsMobil 1 ESP 0W-30 motor oil has excellent capabilities in low temperatures, where conventional oil may not perform. Its quick cold-weather starting and fast protection can help extend engine life. It can also help:

• Reduce particulate buildup in diesel particulate filters
• Reduce poisoning of gasoline catalytic converters
• Reduce deposits and sludge buildup to enable long and clean engine life
• Reduce oil aging, allowing extended drain interval protection
• Generate less hydrocarbon pollution
• Aid fuel economy

We stand behind our productsPlease read our Mobil 1™ limited warranty. Always check your owner’s manual for the manufacturer’s recommended oil viscosity grade, API service classification and any builder approval. Please refer to the Mobil 1™ Product Guide for a quick look at key manufacturer approvals and info on the zinc and phosphorus levels in Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 motor oil.

If your vehicle is covered by a warranty, follow the vehicle’s oil-life sensor or the oil-change interval recommended in your owner’s manual. Proper maintenance practices, including frequently checking the oil level to ensure the appropriate amount of oil is present, are required to ensure effective performance.

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Features and Benefits

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is made with a proprietary blend of leading edge components formulated to be fully compatible with the latest Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF's) and Gasoline Catalytic Converters (CAT's). Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 has been designed to help deliver outstanding performance and protection in conjunction with potential fuel economy benefits. Key features and potential benefits include:



Features

Advantages and Potential Benefits

Low Ash Content

Helps to reduce particulate build up in Diesel Particulate Filters

Low Sulfur and Phosphorous content

Helps to reduce poisoning of Gasoline Catalytic Converters

Active cleaning agents

Helps to reduce deposits and sludge build-up to enable long and clean engine life

Outstanding thermal and oxidation stability

Helps to reduce oil aging allowing extended drain interval protection

Low oil consumption

Less hydrocarbon pollution

Enhanced frictional properties

Potentially aids fuel economy

Excellent low temperature capabilities

Quick cold weather starting and ultra-fast protection Helps to extend engine life

Applications

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is recommended for many types of modern automobile engines, especially the high-performance gasoline and diesel engines found in the latest passenger cars, SUVs and light vans.



Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is especially suitable for extreme conditions, where conventional oil often may not perform. It is not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.

Specifications and Approvals

This product has the following approvals:

MB-Approval 229.31

MB229.51

MB229.52

PORSCHEC30

VW504 00

VW507 00

 

Gene, the way I understand it is that Mobil1 ESP does not have the required soot scatter additives that are required for diesel engines. Take a read through this for a more detailed explanation:
http://www.stephensservice.com/oil-r...res-to-engine/

As to why do they say it is, probably because it gives some additional efficiencies and better mileage, at the expense of engine longevity, than an oil designed specifically for diesel engines. It's a marketing tactic to overcome the "dirty" reputation that diesels have had in North America.

M1ESP is API SM/SN is for gas engines but it doesn't have the certification for API CK4/CF which is for diesel engines.

I'm currently using M1ESP in my Cayenne Diesel as well but will be changing that at the next oil change to something that specifically designed for diesel engines. Haven't decided which yet though but I'd like to find something that in the API Group 4 class.

 

So, there are different 229.52 ratings. Either that or M1 is lying.

 

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As I said, keep on checking before each service for updates.
There is lot of speculation to what degree MB approval is testing-related and to what degree it is "license fee" related, but we are in no position to check it.
I lost my faith to Mobil1 years ago due to high iron it generated and the representative choose not to answer the question.
Oil evolve every year if not every month, so that can change at any time, but for last 6 years I use Motul, who has good price, good rating and lab test confirm it is excelent oil. No sense to me to be Guinea Pig again. (I did lot of oil testing few years back to get clear view on technical aspects, while avoiding sale pitches)

 

Wrong!! So Stephen's unnamed motorcycle oil is the correct one?
It's past time for this internet fairy tale to be chopped up by the wood cutter and thrown in the river.
Mobile 1 ESP was developed for diesel engines. Read what Mercedes and Mobile have to say.
Stephens service is discredited on all the other MB forums. Millions of these engines have run hundreds of thousands of miles on the oils in the BEVO list. How many sprinters do you think are out there in the world blowing up because they are running on Mobile 1 ESP?
Stick to the BEVO. Go to the Sprinter forum for examples of 500k mile OM642 run on Mobile 1 ESP. If anyone knew what was bad for an OM642, the people who run fleets and/or depend on them for their livelihood will. Mobile 1 ESP is used by the overwhelming majority of members in the Sprinter forum polls.
I use Castrol LL. I'm at 255k miles on a 2008 E320 with no cooler leak, no DPF plugging, no glowing turbo, no oil consumption, no timing chain breaking, no anything but fluid changes, brake pads, and tires.

 

Happy to be wrong here. Admittedly I'm still a newb in both the diesel space and especially the MB space. I'm on a bit of a learning curve right now trying to ingest as much information as possible before pulling the trigger on a GL (350 or 450). As you can appreciate there is a metric ***** tonne of information out there and trying to disseminate the fact from the fairytales can't be quite challenging.

What strikes me as odd about M1ESP is that it doesn't have any approval for API CK4/CF. If it was indeed developed for diesel engines should it not have it?

I did a bit more searching around yesterday for API CF oils and here are a couple that have it and also have the MB certification as well as the VW and Porsche ones. I'm sure there are other out there as well.

RedLine Euro Series 5W30
LiquiMoly LongLife 5W30
Shell Rotella T6 5W30

A lot of oil manufacturers have an oil selector tool but this usually recommends and SN oil without the CK4/CF certification. Again, being a newb to all this I'm concerned about putting in a gasoline certified oil into a diesel engine.

 

Doing a quick scan of the BEVo and again I'm finding that most of the oils there are only SN approved not CK4 or CF. I didn't check all of them but the only one I found so far that's readily available is .

None of the ones I linked to above show up on the BEVO.

 

Rotella doesn't meet the later MB specs (229.51/229.52). Don't know about the others. I suspect that the additives that allow it to meet the old CK4 type specs probably prevent it from meeting the latest spec, which have been developed for the SCR/DPF equipped engines.

 

Ahh yes, you're right. I got it mixed up with 228.51. One little digit can make a world of difference.

 

Choosing oil usually is religious subject, but having 2 oils of good brands and meeting the same specifications, I tend to choose cheaper one.
Canada has different pricing, but the LM shows at about $100 for 5l delivered to my place, when I am buying Motul for $48.

 

Also don't get hung up on ACEA , API or ILSAC as they are but a smaller part / sometimes tiny part of a manufacturers oil spec performance profile .

With an oil being both MB229.52 and VW 504.00 507.00 it will have a very complete profile as 229.52 is good on fuel economy and 504.00 507.00 has high anti wear because of the VAG Pumpe Duse compromise in camshaft design having narrow lobes placing high loadings on the bucket tappets .

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My 2014 GLK calls for 229.51 and I can get Pennzoil Euro L 5W-30 full synthetic oil that meets the .51 spec (but not the .52 spec) at WalMart, 5 quart for $23.12 US. Hard to beat. From what I understand, the .52 oil will net me maybe another 0.1 mpg.

 

229.52 should improve mpg by at least 0.7%.
It took me 4 years of use to learn about the feature, as the difference is not measurable and I was buying that category for extra protection.
Still quick calculation should cover that 0.7% on fuel saving pays for oil price difference.

 

Maybe I'm doing the calculations wrong, but with 5000 mile oil changes, 0.7% savings in fuel works out to about $4.00 so the price differential would have to be less than $0.60/quart, or a 5 quart jug of MB229.52 oil for less than $27.00. Am I wrong?

Where did you get those plots from? Do you have one that compares 229.51 with 229.52?

 

Yes, you are doing it wrong.
No modern Mercedes has 5000 miles oil changes .In my sedans the FSS gives me 12-13k miles.
Than to be fair you should compare oils from the same manufacturer, where 1 would have 229.51 and the other 229.52 classification.

 

Who do you think you are, my wife?
No harm in doing them more frequently than the recommendation. I've never gone more than 7500 miles in any car I've ever owned, and wouldn't go more than 5000 in a diesel. 2500 used to be the norm for me. The recommended interval is 10K miles, so double the numbers. I could save about $8.00, or $1.15/quart. You're still not going to find a 5 quart jug of 229.52 oil for anywhere close to $29.00.
I'm comparing what it currently costs me to use 229.51 with what it would cost me to use 229.52. No other comparison makes sense for me.

In fact, I can do the 5000 mile intervals for close to the same cost as a 10K interval with the lowest priced 229.52 oil I have found, and I feel confident the shorter interval will net me more benefit.

[Edit] Found Rowe synt RS DLS oil that meets 229.52 for $37/5 liters at IDParts, or about $35/5 quarts. So, we're back to the question I posed a few months back: what, if any, benefits would I gain from using a 229.52 oil over a 229.51 oil?

 

Welcome to the club with DW.
As for too frequent oil change, it is doing harm to the engine. Not to degree average owner will ever notice and IMHO even if you run MB engine on cooking oil, it still should make 100K miles (not that I would try), but general idea should be easy to understand:
Modern oil (as of last 40 years) do have big dose of detergents and chemicals design to wash the residues and counteract engine chemistry.
The additive pack is wearable and is design for certain mileage, when initial overdose will wear to perfect balance, than to too low balance and at some point the oil should be changed.
When you change the oil before the pack wears to perfect balance, you are treating your engine to constant overdose of detergents and anti-acids.
For comparison, the same diesel engines who in cars and SUV are for initial 10k miles oil changes, in Sprinters have 20K oil changes.
That is due to much bigger oil pan, so the chem pack last in them much longer. Oil base itself is not wearable.

 

Have you got any links to back that up?....I can find nothing to agree with that on the oil sites. They only say that changing too often is wasteful and wont make your engine last any longer as oil had moved on a long way from dino oil with 3000 miles changes in old muscle cars and can take much more punishment with next to no loss of protection....as long as you have a quality oil filter.

 

I had oil classes over 30 years ago and that is where it highlighted. Years ago it was pretty well exposed as to counterbalance "oil change 3000" politics.
Oil subjects in last years become political subject and that changed the whole way the opinions are balanced. Even when I had lab test done, where Mobi1 would show excessive iron wear, the lab comment was "if high iron doesn't bother you, keep using the oil".
Microscopic particles of iron in oil work as abrasive, OFF COURSE it was bothering me.

 

I have a friend who is a well respected industry expert on lubrication (the kind who is hired for investigations and lawsuits). I'll see what he says...