Mb2007bluetec

I have a hydrogen cell I want to put in my car. I'm looking for the best place to connect it to the vehicle. 2007 E320 bluetec. Can I use the brake booster vacuum line? Or does this not suck into the take? Is there any other vacuum lines for the intake. Or could i simple drill a hole in the plastic intake tube and connect it there?
Thank you!

John CC

Diesels don't have (very much) vacuum in the intake... If the plan is to suck hydrogen into the intake using manifold vacuum, I don't think it's going to work. In fact, the intake is often pressurized. Maybe you could get it to work if you tried before the turbo inlet(s).

B34chBum

What John_CC says - the vacuum line for the booster connects only to a vacuum pump.
So even if you did tap into this line, whatever you drew in would go to the vacuum pump, and then into the crankcase (the wrong side of the pistons if you want something to burn).

It would then get ventilated out of crankcase, and only then get drawn into the turbo/air induction.
But, this would be after artificially raising the crankcase pressure (a bad thing, which wants to blow seals or at least reduce the efficiency of power).

And, much like using starter fluid on a diesel, adding hydrogen seems like a bad idea.
It seem to me if you put enough into your induction system to make any noticeable difference, what you would get is clatter/knock rather than an increase in useable power.

In short - Bad Idea, don't do this.

John CC

I hadn't thought of that! Almost like a 2-stroke...

I'm assuming the hydrogen air mix would be too lean to ignite on its own.

The whole scheme sounds a lot like a ponzi scheme to me. The engine generates electricity which is used to break the H-O bonds of the water, and then the hydrogen is burned, forming H2O... No way you gain energy by running the same reaction in reverse. The only way to gain any benefit is if the addition of hydrogen somehow increases the efficiency of the Diesel combustion.

B34chBum

Hydrogen is like, the most reactive element.
It's much more likely to combust in the presence of oxygen than most anything else. Think Hindenburg,
It would flash on the compression stroke way before diesel.

There's a saying about a diesel getting 'hooked on started fluid' - what happens is once you start using it to light the motor off, the motor then gets less and less likely to start without it.
Even when the air temperature at startup isn't as cold as it was when you had your trouble starting.

Feeding anything more volatile than kerosene to a diesel motor will damage it, IMHO.
It really depends on how big a shot of whatever, is getting through.

Pretty much all recent motors you can find in a vehicle will have a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system on it.
I don't think 2-strokes do, though.
The last one I had was a '85 RZ500, a motorcycle.

John CC

In the 2-stroke cycle fuel and air is drawn into the crankcase as the piston moves up in the cylinder. When the piston moves down it compresses the mix under it which then passes through transport ports to the combustion chamber. Sort of the same path you described.

Mb2007bluetec

Thank you all! Very helpful information.
So, I'm not trying to increase horsepower. I'm doing this to increase mpg. More hydrogen gas and less waste from fossil fuel.
I've ran one of my Mercedes on vegetable oil for years, since that is what Rudolph Diesel designed it to do.
Our friend Stanley Myer came up with the technology to convert water into hydrogen and use that as fuel. This will work in any combustion engine. Gasoline, diesel, and propane are all very inefficient fuels. They burn the hydrogen and the rest is all waste.
So, from what i gathered here introducing it at the intake near the turbo would give me the best benefit.
I'm confident in the science behind this. I made everything myself, and it works extremely well. I just need to put it in the car.
I just wasn't sure where the best place was to introduce the hydrogen gas into the engine on this car.
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
If it works out well I'll pass on all the information to everyone.

Quint22

Apologize for being negative but if ur familiar with the systems and the science behind it and the designers that made previouse engines why are you asking how to plumb it into the engine? Seems to me that would be the simplest part to figure out.

Mb2007bluetec

lol I agree. Most engines don't have all the bs on it this thing does. I have a F-150, a Honda Accord, and a 69 Mach 1 mustang. It's a no brainer where to plumb into on those. Even the 1981 300sd I had was very simple.

John CC

Seriously? We did a science experiment in elementary school back in the 1950's demonstrating how to use electrolysis to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen.
Not true! Combustion is a process of oxidation (combining oxygen with another element.) Hydrocarbon fuels are converted into CO2 and H2O. (Both the hydrogen and the carbon are oxidized.) Both reactions release heat, which causes the gases in the cylinder to expand, which creates power.

The law of conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another. When you break the water down you are storing the energy used to do the conversion in the gasses oxygen and hydrogen. The process is not 100% efficient as some of the energy used in the process is wasted as heat. The energy for the process comes from the car's electrical system which is driven by the alternator, which is driven by the engine which is driven by burning fuel. Some of the energy in the fuel is wasted as the process is not 100% efficient. When you then burn the hydrogen in the engine you again get back less energy than you initially put in due to the fact that this process is also not 100% efficient. Bottom line: you have to put more energy into the process of generating hydrogen than you will get out of burning it. Think about it: if you could get more out than you put in you could supply the world's energy needs by breaking water down and putting it back together again. That's called perpetual motion, and if you believe it, I have a bridge to Manhatten for sale you might be interested in.

Meyer's claims about his "Water Fuel Cell" and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996. The only way you can gain anything is if the free hydrogen somehow increases the efficiency of the combustion process more than the inefficiencies of the whole process itself.

Mb2007bluetec

Ok. Sorry I asked. We have a bunch of Debbie Downers here. All I asked for was for suggestions on the best place to introduce the hydrogen into the engine. Not a bunch of negative comments on how this isn't practical. Everyone I knew said I was crazy when i told them I was going to run my car on vegetable oil. I did it and it works wonderfully. When they say it in action everyone then wanted to do it. If the Wright brothers would of followed the mass idiots out there, we might not have airplanes. And I don't believe I'm getting more out then what I put in. This is about a better way to create fuel without being dependent on the government. That's what they want. Why do you think they use the bullsh@ left over from gasoline to run diesels! It's not science fiction that Rudolph Diesel designed the engine to run off of vegetable oil, but once again the government tried to cover it up just like with Stanley Myers car. Could you imagine the revenue losses if everyone converted their vehicles to using water as a fuel source. Your logic makes no sense. Try and think outside the box. If the engine is running off of pure hydrogen, which we know it can, and water is the source of that hydrogen then you are in fact running your car for free. The hydrogen powers the engine, which drives the alternator, which in return produces electricity to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen. The result of burning hydrogen is water vapor. And if you are smart enough tho think outside the box, then you reroute the exhaust back into the fuel tank. The water vapor with condense back into the tank. And you will actually produce a little bit of fuel from what you are burning. Why don't you think about that for a few days! Anyway you slice it that is in fact running your car for free. Who cares if electrolysis isn't the most efficient way to create hydrogen. It's Free if you do it right!.And that's all that matters. Stop watching the t.v. and think for yourself. Life will be so much better. Changing the world one h2o powered car at a time.

John CC

That makes no sense! If you have to put in more than you get out, and you do, then you're not creating anything! Now, if you could generate hydrogen using solar electricity, then you'd be on to something, but if you're using the electrical system of the car, you won't get enough hydrogen to make up for the added load on the alternator. Airplanes don't violate the laws of physics. This does.

I've said my piece. Introrduce the hydrogen right before the inlet to the turbo. That's where you'll have the most consistent low pressure. Be sure to let us know how it works out.