Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
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From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
I swear, every single forum has at least one semi-insane admin who has a pet peeve of some sort, and enforce said peeve with an iron fist. In this case group buys apparently cause severe hand-wringing.
You got served an infraction for posting something you didn't know was verboten? And then they deleted the thread? Puh-leeze. Sounds like someone's got "small man" syndrome to me. A simple PM (minus the infraction) would have sufficed.
</rant>
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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1990 300ce 24v I6
<rant>
I swear, every single forum has at least one semi-insane admin who has a pet peeve of some sort, and enforce said peeve with an iron fist. In this case group buys apparently cause severe hand-wringing. You got served an infraction for posting something you didn't know was verboten? And then they deleted the thread? Puh-leeze. Sounds like someone's got "small man" syndrome to me. A simple PM (minus the infraction) would have sufficed.
</rant>
I swear, every single forum has at least one semi-insane admin who has a pet peeve of some sort, and enforce said peeve with an iron fist. In this case group buys apparently cause severe hand-wringing.
You got served an infraction for posting something you didn't know was verboten? And then they deleted the thread? Puh-leeze. Sounds like someone's got "small man" syndrome to me. A simple PM (minus the infraction) would have sufficed.</rant>
Just a heads-up. If you want to gauge serious interest, you will need to get estimated costs and power gains from each vendor. I would never commit to plunking down any $$$ if I didn't know roughly how much it would cost, and at least approximately what kind of power gain (real dyno graphs before & after would be ideal but I have a feeling you'll not get those unless the mfr has done a production run in the past). And you'll get far more interest if the cost will be, say, $1k delivered as opposed to a cost of $2-$5k, which wouldn't surprise me at all if you're talking custom tubular headers. Shoot, Remus wants like ~$1500 for just a back box on a 500E, lol...
I know Remus is expensive, but they've also got a fine products by most accounts. Furthermore, they, as well as Mosselman, have prior product which has had its R&D and other associated costs recuperated, making new runs of the product both profitable for them and more cost-effective for us.
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300E W124, 300E W124 3.4 AMG, Audi S3 2002
Just a heads-up. If you want to gauge serious interest, you will need to get estimated costs and power gains from each vendor. I would never commit to plunking down any $$$ if I didn't know roughly how much it would cost, and at least approximately what kind of power gain
Thats what i was trying to tell you Saijin
its not just what we expect, its what they can offer, and i assume since mosselman already have produced those in the past they can give an idea on the power gain so the customer can realise what he is getting back for the $
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
^^^
Thats what i was trying to tell you Saijin
its not just what we expect, its what they can offer, and i assume since mosselman already have produced those in the past they can give an idea on the power gain so the customer can realise what he is getting back for the $
Thats what i was trying to tell you Saijin
its not just what we expect, its what they can offer, and i assume since mosselman already have produced those in the past they can give an idea on the power gain so the customer can realise what he is getting back for the $
But, I'll try and make it a dialogue. I've got to expand and refine the surveys first. They're not ready yet.
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From: IL / WI
Depends on the day
i'd wager there would be a lot of interest for individual pieces.
i, for one, would be interested in the air meter piece for the extra injector to be fitted as well as an air plenum
i, for one, would be interested in the air meter piece for the extra injector to be fitted as well as an air plenum
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
You couldn't get much more then 6.5PSI boost as the enrichment was limited.
They also had a top mounted intercooler which wasn't the best design !
Non existent air circulation as it almost pressed against the hood insulation.
Problem with Mosselman is that ***** Mosselman sold the company a few years ago and many of the period designs no longer exist.
I would estimate the kit around $6K+ if they were to offer one.
Not sure if they have any US dealers.
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Ed has pretty much nailed the proposed price. Leon has said that they would make the kit with all new components as the old molds have gotten beat and worn and aren't up to par anymore.
This could be good however, as that means new/more efficient turbos, etc. A lot has changed in the 20 years since this car's inception.
$6k however means I'm out of the running, though I was likely never in it to begin with. OH well, I'll post the polls as soon as I get the OK from the MBworld overlords and I'll set about getting the Remus and Magnaflow ones ready.
This could be good however, as that means new/more efficient turbos, etc. A lot has changed in the 20 years since this car's inception.
$6k however means I'm out of the running, though I was likely never in it to begin with. OH well, I'll post the polls as soon as I get the OK from the MBworld overlords and I'll set about getting the Remus and Magnaflow ones ready.
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124 320ce amg widebody twin turbo, the nail
i have mentioned a few times previously that i have a complete and perfect condition turbo technics extra injector holder that is available to someone who makes a reasonable offer.
it has two injectors and a regulator on it, and replaces the lower rubber boot on the 103 fuel head. you just connect the original factory lines to it and along with a split second controller,as ed has used, this would solve all the enrichment issues.
you would then need to source exaust manifold, turbo, intercooler and pipework.
it has two injectors and a regulator on it, and replaces the lower rubber boot on the 103 fuel head. you just connect the original factory lines to it and along with a split second controller,as ed has used, this would solve all the enrichment issues.
you would then need to source exaust manifold, turbo, intercooler and pipework.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Ed has pretty much nailed the proposed price. Leon has said that they would make the kit with all new components as the old molds have gotten beat and worn and aren't up to par anymore.
This could be good however, as that means new/more efficient turbos, etc. A lot has changed in the 20 years since this car's inception.
$6k however means I'm out of the running, though I was likely never in it to begin with. OH well, I'll post the polls as soon as I get the OK from the MBworld overlords and I'll set about getting the Remus and Magnaflow ones ready.
This could be good however, as that means new/more efficient turbos, etc. A lot has changed in the 20 years since this car's inception.
$6k however means I'm out of the running, though I was likely never in it to begin with. OH well, I'll post the polls as soon as I get the OK from the MBworld overlords and I'll set about getting the Remus and Magnaflow ones ready.
Even with new and modern parts the design will be limited by the enrichment method.
Both the CIS-E and HFM are limited to whatever any even state of the art piggyback unit can accomplish.
TurboTechnics had the correct idea using additional injectors but the available technology for enrichment at the time was not so reliable.
The additional injectors allow for a modern stand alone control while leaving the stock fuel and ignition controls needing no modification.
The M103-12V is the best of the 124 motors to boost as it has a 9.2:1 CR..
It allows for reliable running even at .7 bar boost without worry about detonation.
The article below is from 1987 and gives you some insight on what a twin turbo can do on a M103.
The individual in the article did my TurboTechnics install and set up my suspension.
We collaborated on the enrichment control and came up with the Split Second AIC solution.
It took a few months and many, many dyno pulls and road tests to get initial maximum power on the standard install.
Ed A.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
Ed, your photos & articles are nearly unreadable... do you have larger-size scans available? I can host them on my website with no size limit, and post the links here. I'd love to read all that stuff!!
UDPATE: The 300E Turbo article is available in full size on my website at this link - zoom in with Acrobat Reader as necessary:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...oweek_1987.pdf
UDPATE: The 300E Turbo article is available in full size on my website at this link - zoom in with Acrobat Reader as necessary:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...oweek_1987.pdf
Last edited by AMGDave; Mar 1, 2011 at 12:58 PM.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
1) Codes which continually re-appear are X, Y, Z
2) O2 sensor new / replaced Dec-2010
3) All filters are new or recent
4) Fuel pressure checked ok at XXpsi
5) Compression test on hot engine xxx, yyy, zzz...
6) Muffler bearings - not tested yet
7) Headlight fluid - not checked yet
Etc, etc. It gets tough to remember what exactly you have and have not tested yet, and fixing a broken motor isn't really the same as "modifications"...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
PM me your email..
I'll rescan and forward to you...
The forum tends to thumbnail certain uploads.
Ed A.
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
You might want to start a separate thread specifically for the diagnostics, and list each item that has been tested and the results. Example:
1) Codes which continually re-appear are X, Y, Z
2) O2 sensor new / replaced Dec-2010
3) All filters are new or recent
4) Fuel pressure checked ok at XXpsi
5) Compression test on hot engine xxx, yyy, zzz...
6) Muffler bearings - not tested yet
7) Headlight fluid - not checked yet
Etc, etc. It gets tough to remember what exactly you have and have not tested yet, and fixing a broken motor isn't really the same as "modifications"...
1) Codes which continually re-appear are X, Y, Z
2) O2 sensor new / replaced Dec-2010
3) All filters are new or recent
4) Fuel pressure checked ok at XXpsi
5) Compression test on hot engine xxx, yyy, zzz...
6) Muffler bearings - not tested yet
7) Headlight fluid - not checked yet
Etc, etc. It gets tough to remember what exactly you have and have not tested yet, and fixing a broken motor isn't really the same as "modifications"...
I'll get a post up with some info later. Today was spent getting my exhaust gaskets replaced and a hidden but dangerous fuel pump leak fixed. Status report: I no longer need earplugs to drive, its no more powerful than before, but it seems like it drops off during accel less. Maybe it needed more backpressure than straight pipes provided.
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Oh, I'm sanding/blasting those wheels I got from you, so expect to see new shoes for summer
Last edited by Saijin_Naib; Mar 3, 2011 at 12:05 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Beirut, Lebanon
2006 C55 AMG 6 speed
If I recall correctly, the M104 comes with stock true duals, correct? The exhaust system I'm going for is a simple x-pipe with true 57mm duals all the way to the back, attached to a nice muffler at the end.
Don't think you'll need anything more than that on a non-turbo setup, even with a C36 motor.
Don't think you'll need anything more than that on a non-turbo setup, even with a C36 motor.
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
If I recall correctly, the M104 comes with stock true duals, correct? The exhaust system I'm going for is a simple x-pipe with true 57mm duals all the way to the back, attached to a nice muffler at the end.
Don't think you'll need anything more than that on a non-turbo setup, even with a C36 motor.
Don't think you'll need anything more than that on a non-turbo setup, even with a C36 motor.
According to Mercedes manual/specs, the m104 300ce is good for 7.8s (+/- 3s) with the Mercedes catalyst, whereas the same engine without the catalyst fitted is good for 7.5s (+/- 3s). Big difference right there.
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Posts: 281
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From: IL / WI
Depends on the day
True dual what? It has two exhaust manifolds with 3 exhaust ports a piece, but these feed into a single exhaust pipe all the way down to the single muffler at the end.
According to Mercedes manual/specs, the m104 300ce is good for 7.8s (+/- 3s) with the Mercedes catalyst, whereas the same engine without the catalyst fitted is good for 7.5s (+/- 3s). Big difference right there.
According to Mercedes manual/specs, the m104 300ce is good for 7.8s (+/- 3s) with the Mercedes catalyst, whereas the same engine without the catalyst fitted is good for 7.5s (+/- 3s). Big difference right there.
as for the cat,
im running without a cat. the power difference is negligible, but the buttdyno says it picked up a lot of top end. you can really feel the VVT kicking in hard when the revs get way up there.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 13
From: Beirut, Lebanon
2006 C55 AMG 6 speed
Mine is de-catted, and while I don't know the difference it made since I didn't own it back then (grandma did, ironically LOL) it does pull all the way to 7000rpms relatively quickly.
Not true duals, eh? Looks like I know what I'm doing next...
Not true duals, eh? Looks like I know what I'm doing next...
Thread Starter
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Compression is as follows:
Cyl # | Compression (PSI)
1 160
2 180
3 165
4 135
5 180
6 140
Cyl # | Compression (PSI)
1 160
2 180
3 165
4 135
5 180
6 140
