Tracy6621

I'm thinking about purchasing a 93 400E Silver/Gray 160K miles cold ac, "runs great" for $2550 or 94 420E Blk/Blk Apx 160K mi, hot ac, "execellent cond" for $2500. Is there any difference in materials used in wiring harness between these models? Are there any other 400 series (92-95) problems specific to these models to watch out for? Thinking about future modifications to car,ie; performance chip, differential swap, larger wheels & tires to put together a working man's ("500E" /"400.5E") autobann sleeper. How does diff swap affect gas mileage & does chip really increase mileage & performance? What rear end part is needed for diff swap & how would these changes affect the longivity & reliability of the car? Can a DYI guy make the diff mod & can diff come from a bone yard? If so what model donor car is needed & how difficult/time consuming is the swap? I do realize a real 500 has many differences to a 400, but my fantasy, if workable would be a lot easier on my thin wallet! Any thoughts on this (I admit 1/2 baked, hey I ressemble that remark) idea would greatly be appreciated. Thanks much, Tracy

190E 16V

Sounds like a fun project - great cars!
$2,500 is a great price. A totally wrecked one on here just went for that price.

I'm sure there have been
Threads on this forum about differentials that cover the subject exhaustively. Try doing a "search" first, and then ask again if there are questions.

No, a chip does not seem to do much on the M119 except move the peak power curve
around a bit.

Tracy6621

Thanks for reply. Cat removal & intake mod (I know not to green of an option & not a CA. option), but I'm in a cracker state without emission check. Look at it this way FL will never be a medicinal herb state (Non-green) & some folks here break the law quite regularly. As to chips, can they improve gas mileage? From the little I've seen so far the diff swap doesn't effect mileage too much, but with heavier/wider tires & wheels is it possible to avg. 20mpg somehow? I would like to find diff swap thread & know how time consuming the operation might be. There was a Blue 92 400E in Miami 180k mi, one owner that sold 10 days ago w/$1,800 asking price w/cold ac, so on a good day 2k may buy a decent 400 in these parts! Also last month a 92 400 with trans problem 140k mi vg+ cond w/cold ac @ $800 (probably sold @ $500 in West Palm). I see 1 or 2 decent 400's available every month in the Sunshine State's Craigslists. Great looking 92 500, how long have you had it, how much do you love the car? There was a beautiful blk 190e 6 w/150k mi, euro lights, all systems working, ex cond. very tasty. It lasted one day on local craigslist for $2,500 last week, a real gem. Anyways gotta get primed for the 'Bucs game vs 49ers @ 4pm EST this afternoon. Thanks again, Tracy GO 'BUCS!

190E 16V

Forget about the chips, on this car, anyway.
Resonator delete, hi-flow cats are good for a little more hp and much less weight.

Read this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...als-w124s.html

Afterwards, ask "AMGDave" on this forum if you have diff questions.

M119 motor has three problems:

1) all years of wiring harness deteriorate.

2) Timing chain and guides can fail prematurely.

3) throttle body actuator can fail - $$$

As you know, the w124 tranny is a weak point.

Thanks for your comments about my 500E.
The car is a beauty to drive, and I love the stealth factor.
I have been very happy with it since I had problems 1&2 fixed!

BTW, NOS is what M119 guys are using for cheap power!

Tracy6621

Thanx 0nce Again! The info & advise you have been kind enough to make available to me is very much appreciated. The cat suggestion is noted & is the best approach. The diff model looks difficult & expensive, so in my case is out. The best start on any 400/420 seems to be timing chain guide replacement, & as with any used car, brakes/tires. I need to look into throttle body actuator problems & symptoms. As to your 92 500 does the car have 4spd auto as the 92/93 400 does? How long have you owned the car, & how did you find the car? Thanx again, Tracy

190E 16V

Tracey; I wrote you a long reply before it disappeared forever into cyberspace!
Replace timing guides/tails is labour intensive - read $$$ !!!
check for slop on timing chain off extreme left cam sprocket first, or debris in the pan. Rattle at cold startup is a sign of bad guides.
The chain can be replaced, fed in from top - 3hrs 2guys lots of patience or swearing.

Tracy6621

190E 16V it's too bad your lengthy reply was Lost In Space! You were the 1st person to share your advise with me & I really do appreciate your efforts. I posted the same questions on Benzworld.org 124 forum and have gotten some great advise there as well. I've talked to both owners of the 93 Silver/Gray 400E & the 94 Blk/Blk 420E. The 93 is 5 hrs. away, bought at auction for resale at his lot 2 weeks ago. He sounded credible and says car has all systems up & running, he says nice car. It has chrome trim on wheel arches, an eyesore in my opinion. My late Uncle would never buy a green car & I would never buy a Benz w/ chrome fender trim. I guess we are both superstitious. The 94 420E is 30 min north in St. Pete. Owner out of work & needs cash. He has driven the car for one year, bought it w/ hot ac, doesn't know what it needs to get fixed. The car has 170K mi & he says very good running, body & interior in excellent shape. I hope to see the car this weekend. I'll post an update after seeing the car. Again thanks your input is most helpful. Tracy

190E 16V

Please excuse the spelling errors or weird omissions of letters, below. My "smart" phone is not very clever about anticipating words and spellings.
It is sometimes too difficult to edit long posts, on the phone itself.

I'm sure you know by now, that the E420 and 500E tranny is the same except for the valvebody. The 420 has First Gear Start FGS, determined by the valvebody. The 500 starts in 2nd gear, but can be electrically switched for a fast FGS too. That switch is in the gear selector. Many 500 owners replace the "500" valvebody for the 420 valvebody, or they buy an electronic module, tied into the ABS sensors, to get FGS capability with programmed upshift points - search 2phast's site.
You will likely just want to keep the 420 tranny as it is.

You may find the hi-flow cats very loud
, esp. if you delete the resonator, too. It will sound like an American V8, similar to a Corvette. Sweet, but maybe not for everyday, and it does take away from the stealth factor.

I would carefully check the fenders of the silver car with the chrome trim for rust. I know it was a popular mod, but sometimes this was done to hide the obvious.

The black car? Naturally, check it for neglect. An unemployed guy has other priorities for his money - a necessary repair may have been put off indefinitely, causing more damage/wear and compounding the problem. Be prepared to pay $1,000 or maybe more to repair AC.

Are you planning on working on the car yourself, to save money?
If not, check out the '93 500E FS on 500Espot. He has lowered the price from $14,500 to ????. That car would be FLAWLESS - meticulously maintained!

Saijin_Naib

For better mileage you would want light rims, smaller width, less rolling resistance tires. Not exactly conducive to performance :P

Tracy6621

Hello again 190E 16V. My budget does not match my taste....beer vs champagne.... & I do enjoy fixing the car, it's self rewarding, as the car is on the road again! It stands to reason & I agree with the common sense approach of buying the best example available. The replies @ Benzworld (where I also posted the same topic) suggest waiting for ex+cond 400 in 6-8K price range. Kyle's 93 500 qualifies as ex+!!! I hear the Tubes playing She's A Beauty in my head as I'm viewing the photos on 500 Espot! The Black Beauty looks like Mercedes version of a banned 70's amphetamine! Nothing stealth about a black 500, what a excellent example! Now, just which bank to rob? What a great hobby! Just the appreciation for the 124, no matter which model is gratifying, but to own & drive these remarkable cars is just plain fun. I can't imagine the Blk 93 500E as a daily driver, especially paying less for Kyle's classic than any entry level new FWD 4cyl POS. It goes to value, forget gas mileage, I'd glady spend twice the money on fuel to enjoy the Mercedes! To have the power to get out of harm's way & the protection offered by a 124 if you don't, surely are major considerations as well. As for loud engine, I'm old school, played bass for the ******* (a band that is best described as a cross between the Who meets the Ramones meets SNL), not very stealth like, more like "as subtle as a flying mallet"(Hammer!). Again it seems like Kyle's 500 qualifies.

Tracy6621

Thanks Saijin Naib for the reply! It seems 215 55 16 would be best suited to stock 400E/420E, at least from what I see so far. I'm looking for V8 performance w/descent gas mileage. APX 20MPG w/V8 is pretty good, I was trying to find a way to extend mileage via chip which doesn't sound possible.

190E 16V

Tracy;
Ok, I know where you're coming from. If you enjoy working on cars , and want a value-for-money DD, then one of those cheap 400's is the way to go, perhaps. You just don't want to be paying for expensive parts, wrenching's for free.
Exhaust? You might just be a "straight-pipe" guy

As to the ******* - LOL !!! Do you use that word in Georgia???
I am a Who fan, had all the records, saw the Ramones live in the 70's, and Ibdon't want to talk about amphetamines from the 70's! I can relate.

Sounds like you are a real W124 fan and appreciate the car. When you get one of these, I expecting you to post some vids of rippin' along the road, straight pipe thundering, blasting "blitzkrieg Bop" for us.

Saijin_Naib

Why don't you see what kind of numbers the car returns for you with the stock 8-holer rims and whatever tires it is coming with?

What kind of driving/commuting do you do?
For instance, my 300ce is only rated for 17/21 and I've returned up to 28.5mpg over a 320mi highway commute between NY and NJ (so tons of hills). You may be pleasantly surprised by the mileage you can get if you just keep the throttle off the floor

Also, if your engine turns out to be leakproof, you could try a lighter weight synthetic. I was using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5w-30 for a while but my engine just ate it right up, a quart every 200mi or so. On a better condition engine, you're likely to get more miles by far. However, while running on the full synth, idle was lower, engine was way quieter and smoother, and there may have been a very slight boost in mileage.

190E 16V

All good ideas, but if you are not going with new gaskets, I'd stick with a lighter weight, good ol' dino oil. Cheaper and less likely to leak.

Tracy6621

NEW X FACTOR IN BUY POSSIBLITES: 7/92 Wht/Tan 400E 137k Cold AC. Talked to owner yesterday & car sounds VG cond. & the best current candidate. Oh yeah he's asking $2,500, this weeks magic number! 2nd owner of car with recent MB battery ($185),New MB water pump (didn't ask how much he got killed on that). 1st owner had regular MB service (example ABS brake rebuild @ $2,000), receipts provided with car. Sounds "very interesting" (phrase was running gag on Laugh In spoken w/thick German accent)! Pics look good, current owner is a car guy (used car salesman) & spent some time with me on phone was very thorough with car's description. Have a good feeling about this one, it's 2 hrs away & hope to see car soon! As to the ******* we played all over Florida (mostly Tampa Bay area) never made it to Georgia. We wanted to play Atlanta and Athens, but never did. We were to open for the Ramones at University of South Florida soccer field but got rained out. The Ramones wanted to move it inside to the Empty Keg in student union. So the 2 bands went to the student union with apx 750 people for a 300 person room. In the end we were the only band that played that night as their manager wouldn't let them play on smaller PA. Somehow their leather jackets came up missing! There was a Miami fanzine that reported the next night's performance by the Ramones wasn't that great & the band was quoted that they weren't the same until Oshmands Sporting Goods opened Monday morning & they were able to buy new jackets. We did get to play wiffle football with them before the rain. I wonder if our old manager still has the jackets? He had booked the bands that night & I guess he wanted something for their $9,000 payment to remember them by! Then there was opening for Cheap Trick in front of 5000 @ USF Sundome. We played 17 songs in 55 min. (1 cover: I'm Bored by Iggy Pop). But that's another story! So straight pipes, yeah I resemble that remark...& wouldn't they produce a little more hp than the legal exhaust mod?

Tracy6621

Thanks again for your input! Yes the candidate (7/92 400E) has d cup 15's, and on my budget it will be awhile before I can change to 16's. There is a set of preowned MB chrome 16's w/descent 215 55 16 rubber off a newer model for $300 on recent South Florida craigslist. Just putting the buy money for the car together is difficult enough at present, so I will be checking out mileage numbers with stock wheels. The 7/92 should have metal oilers, & hopefully timing chain/guides show up as completed repairs in the stack of original ("lady driven") receipts.

ohlord

If you are having trouble scraping up 2500 bucks to purchase a 20 year old Mercedes
You might want to think about buying a 20 year old Mercedes a bit more

Tracy6621

That is exactly what I'm thinking about! Don't spend much $$$ on myself, so this is a realitively small sum on a personal want. Unless.... Ohlord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz! To me a 92 400E is a great buy of course depending on condition, my first car '72 Super Beetle, would cost more to rebuy in today's market. I can't think of a better project for me. Bottom line, when I've found the right car to start with I can restore it to a very satisfying cond. & in the end have a extremely realiable bulletproof Benz at a fraction of the cost of a newer FWD POS. Besides a true fanatic would spend his or her last dime on a dependable M119 124!

190E 16V

Ha ha, great stories!!!
I had to laugh, too - 17 songs in 55 minutes! Yes, I can imagine that as well - frantic!! Iggy Pop? Great stuff. Was it him or Brian Eno, who threw himself off the stage at a concert, and broke his neck???

Oh yeah, cars... you sound like straight-pipe guy, and it does give marginally more horses, yes. However, you do need SOME back pressure - power will suffer in the low end, maybe loud rifle-ing sounds. Perhaps an X-pipe would be needed. Ask a good exhaust tuner.

That latest car sounds a way better bet than the others. Keep us informed. Over and out.

jemfrap

I listen to brian eno's atmospheric sub bass when i have my turds.

190E 16V

"Aural" sex ???!!!

Oh, dear, this is going downhill.

Tracy6621

Eno's a bit different, but so is bowel movement comment in 124 thread....maybe better suited for off topic thread! Love Roxy Music even with Eno & enjoy his contributions to U2's music as well. His atmospheric solo musing maybe is best enjoyed on a toilet. I met the Iggster one night after a great performance (Soldier Tour) at the long gone Agora Ballroom in Tampa. He was going through a sober period & very pleasant to me. Right after the show he told one of my roomates who was dressing room security to fech him a wild looking blonde with huge headlights (car reference?) backstage. She lasted maybe 2 minutes & was so lame he had Paul throw her out. He came out to the bar, I offered him a drink, which he declined, we talked a little & he signed a poster for me with his real name Jimmy Ostenberg. Great night I'll never forget it! PS Money is tight, 1st of the month crunch, hopefully car is still available by the time my side job is finished. I'll keep you apprised. Tracy