no_clue

Okay...I am very ****....... I must done my own research and testing before I "agree" to anything. (36 still single, what do you expect? )

Anyway, I found so many people bashing MB Bose system, but I thought it is actually a great system.

MB Bose using low ohm speakers. (1-front or 2-rear ohm vs conventional 4 ohm) These speakers require more signal power, however, low resistant speakers also differentiate sound frequency/ pitch better. (Try listen to symphony in your MB, and try the same one on any other system)

If your mission is to blast the music to annoy the driver next to you, then you do require better HU.

But again, Stock Bose Amp require low level input, ( it is around 10W RMS ONLY vs most 15+ W RMS from your after-market HU - Thanks to GWU EE graduate student hook my amp to the crazy machine - which I was planning on ditching it) if you just change high power or conventional 4 ohm-initial HU, then you generally got lots noise!!!! Including hissing, humming and popping..etc.

Most people might not notice w/ their new HU. When you playing CD, if there is noise between songs, then you know you have problem!!! ( most pro say, it is normal. NOPE, it is NOT!!!!! Correct frequency should NEVER creat even low level hissing!!!)

Also, simple test can be done such if you increase your NEW HU's volume to 3/4 of maxium level and your speaker start to distort, then you know your new HU is killing your Bose amp!!! ( This is also another FALSE impression that AFTER MARKET HU is much better than stock Becker!!!!!!!! Why? Because you think only few digit increase on your new HU can product much louder sound then your BECKER - it is like if I can't speak clearly, no matter how loud I yelled at you, you still wouldn't understand)

In the long run, After-market HU w/out input level convertor generally will kill the Bose amp (it is NOT because Bose sucks, it is just because you need to understand how it works.)

You could try different HU from Crutchfield, however, make sure you either get PAC OEM-2, or Scosche convertor, so that your HU output can match your Bose amp input level. *** once input level matched, then you are free to blast your speakers w/out damaging them ***

You will be surprise, w/ correct HU (some w/ extra Bass output) and Hi-Low level convertor, you will get the most out from your Bose system.

Another reason getting adjustable level convertor is good idea so that you can feed your front and rear channel w/ different input. Your Bose subwoofer located on the deck. (believed me, it can handle and produce adequate bass!!!) **** simple test, put fader all the way to the rear speakers, decrease treble all the way down and play your hip-hop as loud as you want. If at 3/4 of max volume you are still not satisfied, then you can go ahead and knock yourself to buy a new subwoofer ****

Anyway.............It is true you got what you pay for. It is true that good stuff doesn't come cheap. But if you don't know what you are getting into, then it is true you just a big Lollipop.

if anyone like to add more pointer, please do.

p.s. I got Blaupunkt Key West (direct plug'n'play, no adaptor harness needed, even speed sensing volume works perfectly) and Scosche SLC-4 convertor, my system is more than adequate even blasting hip-hop and rock'n'roll.

nimski62

There is a simple solution.. DO NOT CRANK IT AFTER YOU GET AN AFTERMARKET TO WHERE IT DISTORTS.. This is what I do.. the volume goes to the BOSE full capacity and then after that it only distorts so I dont crank it after that.. Its really not that hard, i dont get any added noises, I have Mp3, and I personally think there is more Bass with the AF HU..

no_clue

Yes, most decent after-market HU will provide more bass and mid-range. NOT crank it up does NOT prevent frequency overload or Solve the issue!!!!!

Let's take...hmm..........Socket 478 CPU and Motherboard for example. There is ever famous Prescott core.
We know that earlier stage Prescott using Higher voltage 1.45V ~ 1.55V (generally) If you have a motherboard that is SiS964 chipset, this system will work perfectly.

Now Socket 478 also has Yanoh core that ONLY use around 1.25~1.4V. YES, you still can use SiS964 to power up your new Yanoh core, however, if BIOS has not been upgrade, your OLD SiS964 board will continue to feed it at higher voltage, hence reduce CPU life (not to mention extremely over heating that may cause system crash)

I can go on and on about circuit/processor/CPU and Motherboard, even how nForce4 Ultra vs nForce4 's HT setting that cause instablility of entire system. (hell, I never run my CPU at stock speed, so I always very careful w/ electronic setting) I even have an Venice 3000 out perferom FX55 @ 2.7Ghz w/ air cooling.

nimski62

Well im glad I dont overclock ANY of my 5 system?s i built.. ANYWAYS TECH GUY.. Whats your solution then?.. Leave it stock?

no_clue

It is depend on what you want and spend.
Hell...I am cheap!!!! I only bought a new HU and Level converter. ( more or less buying a new CPU w/ voltage regulator ) MB BOSE amp and speakers are more than adequate to play any kind of music you like. ( I am not about to throw my money on new SCSI drive and 512-bit GDDR3 video card, if I am only running SAS and web browsing)

Blackbeard

I'm still wondering if my '01 210 should have come with a Bose Amp as standard from the factory because I don't have one. (while installing CD changer I noticed nothing was there)

Code 810, according to EPC, should have included the Bose Amp. I can't imagine it being an option on a $61000 MSRP car with the COMAND option.

no_clue

well...if CD changer is not even standard, there is good chance Bose amp is not, no?

Have you remove the carpet panel right under the left trunk hinge? It might be there!

SL55 RIMS

Hell yeah, the Bose system ROCKS!

TruE320Ridah14

I am happy with my aftermarket HU
Pioneer Avic-N2
Front Doors speakers are Memphis Audio Componets 6 1/2"
Back Seat Door speakers are Memphis Audio 3-way 6 1/2"
Deck lid speakers are Memphis Audio 3-way 6 1/2"
Along with my crappy amp sony xplod that I am changing out soon.
The Bose system is OK but I like my new set-up better.

no_clue

You missing the point here. I am sure you spend lots money on your sound system. (this is not exact, show me what you got thread)

We trying to see if we can Utilize existing system from least amount of money and effort.

Mr. Benzito

no_clue...

Thanks for putting out this thread, before I went out and changed up my entire system. I actually like the bose/becker setup, and wanted to only make minor alterations to the system.

So those alterations are as follows and would appreciate any help!

First, my w210 only has 2 subs in the rear deck, where it has space for 4. Now I was considering either purchasing two more from the dealer/scrap yard or taking all 4 of my subs from my 92 S-class and putting them in the E-class. Would this be possible to integrate the subs? I know this may sound stupid to ask, but would it even make that much of a difference having two subs over four?

As well if I changed the headunit, as well as the amp, how significant of a difference it would be, and what amp should I look at to power the entire system (i.e. make, model, 4/5/6 channel), keeping in mind that it is still all factory speakers that I'm using? I am looking for clarity and not necessarily power, and prefer the music to stay in the car rather than being the boombox for the neighbourhood.

Thanks!

no_clue

Again, try this first and if it doesn't make any MAJOR different to your current Bose, it will cost you absolutely NOTHING anyway.

Go to Crutchfield.com pick up a decent HU. Like I said, I preferr Blaupunkt (key West), because it is direct plug and play. (even speed sensing volume is active and adjustable)
And get a Scosche Level convertor.

If by any chance you don't notice different, return back to them. YES, 30 day return policy and they EVEN PAY THE RETURN SHIPPING!!!! (plus, they give you an antenna adopter for free, radio removal keys for free, and wirehardness for free)

Because new head unit, it able to produce more Bass for your rear subwoofer and better cross-over for the Front speakers. If you still not happy, come back and smack my head!!!!

Mr. Benzito

Sounds like a plan!

Only one problem that I have.... Crutchfield doesn't ship to Canada! There are ways around that of course, but for now, it is what it is.

Well as it stands right now, I have an (old) headunit. A pioneer DEH-P840



I suppose I could try and get the antenna adapter myself as well as that Scosche convertor that you were talking about and see what happens.

But I'm with you all the way in terms of the economics of this project on the wallet! It's worth more in my pocket or into another mod for the vehicle!

TruE320Ridah14

The only problem you may have is having enough power to power all ten of your speakers with just a HU, plus you are going to have to spend some money to get a good amp that is multi-channel 4/5/6 for instantce JL audio, massive audio and any other amp that has a good thd and a good built in crossover, which defeats the purpose of a cheap upgrade and the least amount of money and effort.

no_clue

If Mr. Benzito already has Bose set up, which I assume he did, or he wouldn't be responding to this thread. Then Bose amp will be enough to power up all his speakers.
(After install his new HU, I don't think he even want to bother adding more subwoofer or speakers, as state he just need more mid to low range sound, not to annoying his neighbor)

Unless you want to feel the viberation across your window, or those who Love to share their music (rather annoying practice by many youngster) w/ their windows down.

Let's take this into little research calculation...
To play "Moderately loud classical" in enviroment at the constant of 85dB (of courese, inside your Benz, it will be quieter)
Amplifier power (watts/channel) required to produce 84dB in a listening room with loudspeakers of various sensitivities in a very low efficiency, small acoust. susp. systems is only 1.25W.

Now, most of HU has at least 4X15W per channel, technically speaking, w/out amp, it can still produce enough sound to exceed human hearing comfort of recommendate sub 100dB. That is if signal imput has been correctly match. (Most of after market speakers and HU using 4ohm, wherea Bose using low resistant 1ohm and 2ohm speakers.)

Mr. Benzito

My biggest concern is sound quality and spending (or rather saving) that luchini....

The company that I work for just went under, so I'm trying to keep everything on the budget tip, cuz although I need to look for work (which ain't that difficult thing), I still want to be able to enjoy my vehicle.

I rather have that invested into other projects for the vehicle such as H.I.D.'s, bodykit, or something like that if I can simply just install my headunit and get a much cleaner sounding vehicle.

Now I assume that I have a bose system, but I am not entirely sure how to check. All that I know, is that I have two subs in the rear fill, but have space for four. The only REAL upgrade that I would really care to do is maybe purchase two more FACTORY subs that would go in that location. Hense why I was asking before if I use subs that are from another bose setup in another mercedes (W140) if it should be able to integrate is my biggest concern.

Sound quality is one of my concern.

TruE320Ridah14

Well good luck with your project

Mr. Benzito

Alright... so I found a pic of the sub that I have in my vehicle, being sold on ebay.





Now for the dummy part...

I have two of these already in my vehicle. Since the seller has these for dirt cheap, and I still have two available slots for them (which I assume are filled in other current owners W210's), I'm considering purchasing them for the added umpf! Would the current amp set up in the vehicle be able to power four set of these (if I bridge the amp power?!?) or would I have to purchase a new amp?

I'm assuming that I would have to purchase a new amp, and if that's the case, how much power can each of these speakers/subs take? I also have two audison amps that I'm considering to use in another project, but will use in this vehicle if absolutely necessary, I'm just affraid that the amps will overpower the subs. I suppose that they can be adjusted such that the power being outputed will not surpass that of the intake of the subs, but like I said, this is the dummy part since I know very little in regards to voltage and ohm's when it comes to subs and amps.

Like the thread is pointing out, I rather just keep it factory (either then the HU), however, adding these two subs is what concerns me that I would be needing a little bit more power.

Any input would be appreciated!

Thanks!

no_clue

Assuming all 4 subwoofer are same spec, bridge/split signal will only provide half of power to each set.

To get more bass out of the speaker is to increase signal output from 30~150hz range off your HU. (which stock HU lacks)

Did you have Bose amp now?

Mr. Benzito

I assume that I have a bose amp, since everything else in the vehicle is bose.

In terms of power from the headunit, as the picture that I have a few posts ago, I will be upgrading to the Pioneer headunit pictured, or to a newer Alpine unit. I'm under the impression that the deck should be able to provide a much better signal output.

From the sounds of it though, I should be looking into upgrading the amp, no?

ImaginAsian

change the head unit, the bose system is actually quite good - it just needs a better signal. i switched out the becker with an alpine IVA-D310 and its night and day in gaining back clarity in the mids and highs.

if anything, spend the money on a sub.

no_clue

Like I told you earlier, just change new HU first. (I know it is easy to carry away) If you have BOSE amp, YOU MUST GET Level convertor.

FOR NOW, just spend $30 on the Level Convertor. (since you already have a NEW HU) AND THAT WILL PUT YOU OFF UPGRADING amp.

FireFox31

no_clue, I still don't understand why we need a PAC OEM-2 or Scosche converter to use an aftermarket headunit with the Bose amp. Is this required to convert aftermarket HU speaker-level outputs down to Bose amp line level inputs? Why bother, just use the aftermarket HU's line level outputs.

I did a bunch of testing like you. My aftermarket headunit has RCA line level outputs. I connected them directly to the (2002 W210) Bose amp inputs using RCA connectors soldered to a wiring harness. It worked perfectly with no additional noise and no special converter.

As far as I know, aftermarket HU resistance (ohm) and RMS don't matter if you use the line level RCA outputs. Only their voltage level (should be 4 Volt) matters.

I agree 100% that an aftermarket headunit with stock Bose amp and Bose speakers sounds MUCH better than the Becker headunit. Better lows and MUCH better highs. Adding a headunit with the custom wiring harness (allowing ANY aftermarket HU to be directly plug and play with your car) is an inexpensive way to good sound.

no_clue

technically, it is true using low-voltage line out will work great w/ stock Bose amp. However, line-out only provide 2V~4V vs required 10V. (in this case, you definitely do not need level convertor to lower the voltage)

Line-out are generally for Pre-amp. so, if you tends to "crank up" the volume, it will put more stress on your new HU.
(under same volume output, if you fire via line-out from you new HU instead of speaker-out, you will feel more heat dissapate from back of your HU)
Just try it for 5 min, then you will feel it.

Mr. Benzito

Well it is done...

I had the headunit installed this weekend, and I will say that it sounds quite nice indeed! Much improved over the old headunit. Sound is extremely clean, and I can turn up the volume a bit and hear the clarity in the mids/highs that I didn't before, and the subs now kick with a bit more authority in the back. I just have to tune the headunit a bit and it should sound respectable.

For now, I am going to just stick with the system as is, but if I find that I still would like more bass I think Ima just get two more factory subs and put them in and get an amp to power everything....still want to stick to the factory look without going overboard.

I reccommend that everyone follow no_clue's advice ... just install the headunit first and go from there. It makes a WORLD of difference if you can match up a good sounding H/U with the speakers. If u tryin to conserve money and think you may want to go back to your old system or another h/u get it installed at Best Buy. You may think a big box store don't know what they're doing, but they have to be certified, and did a great job on mine - PLUS they have to put back in the factory system for me for free when I want, and my dude said that if I wanna change decks within the year just to bring him the receipt and they'll do it free of charge! Can't go wrong with that!

Even though I have this pioneer h/u in there right now, I wish I had an Alpine, Eclipse or even Nakamichi/McIntosh unit, but I'll live with it!

Pics soon to follow!