h0rn3t920

Im definitely getting my car lowered sometime during the holidays, i settled on eibach pro springs and bilstein sport shocks on #3 pads all around. Does anyone know if ill need a camber kit at all?

Thanks

ETP

Only if want the camber to be set at a neutral position. The car can be aligned with the stock links but it will be more negative which can cause more tire wear. I have 99 430 that has be dropped about 1.5" I did not buy the kit and the negative camber is obvious. I plan on buying new tires in the spring. I will buy the camber kit too!!!Hey your car is going to look awesome when dropped..Don't forget the pics.....

E420White

Allright, another 210 to be lowered, and a 97 E420 at that..! It will transform your E420 which is already very nice!

My low cost lowering: cutting springs and using existing Billstein HD shocks created a slight negative camber in the rear, but the front stayed perfect.

I bought these camber arms to offset the rear camber back to zero, which effectively solves the problem...

ohlord

solves the rear problem,you still want negative camber so that when you go into a turn the side forces load the tires into a vertical position and increase tire contact.0 degrees is not ideal.Have the car ride height loaded and aligned on a hunter machine.

Pro springs ,you will need camber kit and rear link kit,start saving

cragigotgame

You will definitely need to correct the camber, replacing tires gets old after a while.

what_boost

you should NOT have to buy camber links or camber repair bolts unless you want to toggle the camber past -1.50 degrees (make it LESS negative). This is within MB spec though. I just installed H&R springs and Bilstein Sport shocks with #1 pads all around-Fantastic! If you DIY, you MUST buy the pancake spring compressor (no other option unless lowering control arms). My car was aligned with a BEISSBARTH alignment machine at my local indie. This is what mercedes-benz uses to align cars coming off the assembly line! Do not cut your springs-that guy is retarded and doesn't know what he is talking about. I just finished the job today and if you need detailed help-PM me!

raymond g-

hmmm, cutting a spring is not unsafe, unwise, or unproven. it's the method
and care in performing this which is critical. not everyone has the money,
nor is it mandatory to buy new springs to accomplish the same end result.

I think your blanket admonishment is overdramatic.

ohlord

a new expert?
Not a problem?
-1.5 MB spec?
Don't go calling people disparaging names ,when a total lack of suspension science is on show for all to see.Dropping the car an inch and a half is going to put you well into the range that camber eccentrics are needed and if you are running -1.5 you don't value your tire life or only drive your Benz on the track,which you don't.
Cold cutting coils on the Benz is used by the factory team,it is used by 4 matic owners as one of the only real options left to lower a 4 matic,now that lowering springs are no longer made for them.It is used by MB senior tech factory trained mechanics.The springs don't change rate after they settle.Cutting them with a cold cut saw cooled with oil will only increase spring rate about 10% and that is most likely less of a change and more of a drop than most spring kits achieve.
Sorry but it p*ssss me off when a newb that 20 days ago on another forum asks " I can do the shocks and springs, but I need a spring compressor, right?
What about the camber links & bolts? Is the front easy to do like the rear?
MUST I roll the front fenders?
Camber settings can be done by me and then I take it to get aligned, right?"

and gets help and then jumps onto another forum and ranks on a 6 year
member that knows what he is doing.

You don't need a spring compressor if you know what you are doing.You can cold cut springs.It does not take 9 hours to install a rear sway bar on a w210.And you most of all don't need aftermarket sway bars anyway.
From what I see you finished today on benzworld.org is you bailed on the sway bars that you bought before finding out if they were needed or if you would derive any benefit from.You are looking to sell a set of lensolo link arms and eccentric bolts,that you really do need and would benefit from.And that you are going to instruct another member on how to install springs and shocks ,when you can't install the stuff you already spent money on.That's what I see.

"GOT GALL?"

h0rn3t920

Does anybody have any suggestions about what camber kit to buy?

ohlord

Above three guys above has a set of lensolo link kits for sale and camber eccentrics,that he feels in his expert opinion he does not need.You might make him a good cash offer kits that are purchased and never used go for pennies on the dollar.Sort of like hardly used 20 inch rims
Speedybenz,K-mac other options

what's the offset on those 18's?
1.4" drop on Pro's you really want to watch the front end.

ejsheltra

Really think long and hard about that drop. You have a nice looking car. Be sure your TSW wheels are within the spec of the OEM wheels for offset and OVERALL width. Remember an eight inch wheel is a good bit wider overall and overall wheel widths vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. You may be opening up more issues than you may want to spend on. Check one of Mark Cummins previous posts regarding what he did when dropping his 210 wagon, ie. rolled fenders, front and rear kits, etc. I know dropped looks cool. But you really have a nice ride and don't want to see you in for more than what you anticipate. Good luck either way. it is a nice machine you have.

what_boost

I did NOT have to roll my fenders, install the eccentrics, or the camber links in the rear either. The car drives straight, no ugly obvious camber, handles superb, and no RUBBING whatsoever!

Ohlord, as smart as you may think you are, you give a lot of advice based on heresay and not based on personal experience. i recall you telling me:

"Your offset and width is off at 37 on the front you will have problems.Your Et is off at the rear as well not needing 9.5 wide on the rear as a stagger.Rear is harder to align than the front and You can do neither unless you happen to own a 5figure hunter alignment machine.
Have you ever changed spark plugs?"

I say-Ohlord, Have YOU ever changed spark plugs?

*Note that when I asked for advice '20 days ago' I had not even looked under neath my car and was merely asking for direction as to the complication of the suspension system.

TIME ON FORUM ~= EXPERIENCE!

h0rn3t920: Mark Cummins, ruBENZ_00E55, and BNZUOVR are all great resources for lowered suspension.

ohlord

No "ugly obvious camber" is not an educated reply to a Mercedes Benz being properly aligned. .5 degree off can lead to drift and excessive tire wear and you would never observe it by eye.

You did not need 9.5 on the rear ,you choose them.
An 8.5 with a 37 et on the front you just have not hit the right bump or turn yet
You asked about setting your own camber.You can not set it on the rear without the kit.And on the front if you change camber you change toe and drop it you change caster.when your tires wear out in ten thousand miles you will see why people like some you mention above, install camber eccentrics and rear links.

After your inquiry into a hot air intakes and having purchased H/R sway bars before really finding out if you needed them or not,my question about you having changed spark plugs on A Mercedes was directed at skill and knowledge level.Maybe if you had not looked underneath,you had not looked under the hood either

Me change Plugs?Build race cars?
No. Over 40 years of racing,building engines,NHRA member,SCCA member,instructing forum members at my shop and holding tutorials at their home shops for other members on other Mercedes forums,selling the 17mm offset boot removal tool,talking members through the job over the phone and PM.
I just do it by Hearsay and not based on personal experience
Twitch my nose and blueprinted race engine just assembles itself.

Now,I'm as smart as I think I are and another member is Retarded
You can't spell hearsay and think you need to see "Ugly obvious Camber" before it becomes an issue.
Under neath....... underneath this issue,
Whom are you going to alienate next?

h0rn3t920 is the OP of this thread .How can he refer to himself as "great resources for lowered suspension"

and Mark had his wagon modded by Steve and it has a complete camber package and rear link kit and rolled fenders with proper offsets rims and bilsteins sports done right.He has no tire wear issues.
so if you are going to refer people to him,refer Yourself
Okay?Okay

raymond g-

hmmm, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to have ohlord sit next to what_boost
at my MBWorld Thanksgiving dinner, eh?

i am going down to the garage to rebuild the carbs on my 82 GPz750.
try not to kill each other, okay?

ohlord

Ray. Wasn't that you at the spark plug DIY I presented at Forum members John's house? Where I Hearsay performed spark plug change tutorial and Hearsay instructed on two different models of Mercedes Benz's? Or was it just so friggin hot that day, that we all hearsay imagined it?

First Time I have seen someone posted as a resource for their own question.
h0rn3t920 you already know your own reply

what_boost

this has turned into a grammatical fight now? wait, did i spell grammatical right?

ohlord

Just a lesson in don't go barkin up a tree if you don't know what might be up there "Ohlord, as smart as you may think you are, you give a lot of advice based on heresay and not based on personal experience."

and don't be calling members a name left long ago in Civilized American lexicon.

michakaveli

soooo.. not to hijack the thread, but perhaps add some insight as the OP has a '97 E-Class like myself.

I had some time ago installed a pair of E55 springs and some Eibach Pro-Kit shocks. Up front I had replaced the upper and lower controls arms, bought and installed the eccentric bolt kit for the front but not for the rear. I inquired with the stealership parts person if there was a bolt kit for the rear and he stated that there was not. Sooo.... after an alignment on a Hunter machine my fronts sit -1.5 and my rear is -2.1. I noticed that my rear tires were being chewed up on the very inner edge.

I purchased a rear camber arm kit from Lensolo. Apparently MY 97 and earlier had a different axle bearing housing and needed special inserts to be made. Hence over a year later I have received all the needed parts, but still need to machine the ID (inner diameter) on the inserts as the OEM bolts won't go through...


Sooo... and I'm sure Ohlord will chime in. What else is needed to bring my current camber value back to spec? I have not yet installed the rear Lensolo arms but plan on it in the near future (when I get some time). What am I missing?

I posted as I figured the OP may run into the same issue(s) I have, since we have the same MY E-Class.....

BTW: I am running #1 pads up front but will likely increase to a #2 or #3 to increase the ride height slightly and in turn increase my front camber values. In the rear I am running a #3 pad but will increase to a #5 as the rear sits too low when the vehicle is loaded. With this current setup and the fuel tank half full, the car sits PERFECTLY, but I'd like to run my tires a little longer.


BTW: Lensolo is a GREAT guy to deal with, just be advised that it may take some time to get the camber arms if they need to be made. Excellent build quality. Nicer than the one posted earlier.

h0rn3t920

ok well I have no idea of what i need to get when it comes to camber kits. Do i just buy the camber kit and have the installer install it and leave it at that? What all do I need and what will be assured to work?

what_boost

once you lower the car, take it for an alignment and have them install the camber arms as they must loosen those suspension components anyway.

MARK CUMMINS

Buy the OE Mercedes Benz Repair camber bolts X4 for the front

Buy a set of Adjustable rear arms

Have the alignment checked after the springs settle...

You Should need them to get the Alignment specs in..

I Have done Alignments when I Worked for Mercedes and have Installed several repair bolts on Non Lowered cars as ALL cars are NOT the same ride height...Measure a few W210s then you will see

Mercedes made the bolts to cure tire wear( Negative Camber) on NON Lowered cars..But they work Perfect on Lowered cars

what_boost

Once you lower the car, take it for an alignment and have them install the camber arms and the repair bolts if they are necessary. As it is always best to allow spring settling, some companies claim that the springs won't settle on you and if this is true you don't have to wait for settling.

Camber does not cause tire wear. Toe causes tire wear. Camber causes toe, but toe can be aligned out.

Eccentric bolts are used to adjust camber due to bushing wear in the control arms, hence the name "repair" bolts.

I do not know where you people get "-.5 degrees" camber is spec when specs are variable. Specs vary per car, equipment installed, and ride height! I will post my alignment specs (note these are taken DIRECTLY form mercedes-benz as I double checked).

Interesting site:
http://continentalimports.com/ser_ic4232.html


My Alignment Specs:

ohlord

is an old school guy.Your car is new school.
Camber affects tire wear,it is one of the single biggest affects in accelerated tire wear.Too far neg and the tires wear out on the inside edge.Yours will.They did nothing to adjust them,simply because there is no adjustment without the use of camber links or K-mac like units.Your specs for a lowered car are so far off you wasted your time and money.Stop trying to school us,you picked the wrong group.
Nobody said it was spec for the rear ,it is what you shoot for on a street Mercedes.
-2.6 or what ever you are running is Watkins Glen territory
Go to a mb dealer get it on a Hunter machine and have them load and height align it and tell you what you think you need.

go install a sprintbooster or somethin,will ya.

MARK CUMMINS

Here ya go

Camber

Camber is the angle of the wheel, measured in degrees, when viewed from the front of the vehicle. If the top of the wheel is leaning out from the center of the car, then the camber is positive ,if it's leaning in, then the camber is negative. If the camber is out of adjustment, it will cause tire wear on one side of the tire's tread. If the camber is too far negative, for instance, then the tire will wear on the inside of the tread.
Camber wear pattern

If the camber is different from side to side it can cause a pulling problem. The vehicle will pull to the side with the more positive camber. On many front-wheel-drive vehicles, camber is not adjustable. If the camber is out on these cars, it indicates that something is worn or bent, possibly from an accident and must be repaired or replaced.

MARK CUMMINS

The toe measurement is the difference in the distance between the front of the tires and the back of the tires. It is measured in fractions of an inch in the US and is usually set close to zero which means that the wheels are parallel with each other. Toe-in means that the fronts of the tires are closer to each other than the rears. Toe-out is just the opposite. An incorrect toe-in will cause rapid tire wear to both tires equally. This type of tire wear is called a saw-tooth wear pattern as shown in this illustration.

If the sharp edges of the tread sections are pointing to the center of the car, then there is too much toe-in. If they are pointed to the outside of the car then there is too much toe-out. Toe is always adjustable on the front wheels and on some cars, is also adjustable for the rear whee