is this car a lemon?
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
is this car a lemon?
First of all, I don't really trust carfax. They showed two owners for my truck that I special ordered from the manufacturer 10 years ago, and have owned since it was delivered (until this Friday when I sold it).
However, carfax is what it is, and that is one of few choices we have in researching the history of a car.
That said, take a look at the attached image. What do you think of this car's history? It seems like a lot has gone wrong. But then again, maybe this car went in for repairs to a dealer who was dilligent about reporting work done... but a new catalytic converter at 30,000miles? That's odd.
What do you think? Is it a Lemon that wasn't reported as such, or is it something worth pursuing? It's in very good cosmetic condition... haven't had it mechanically inspected yet. The guy is asking WAY too much. But I think he'll come down.
Oh, it's a 2003 e320 wagon, 2WD.
However, carfax is what it is, and that is one of few choices we have in researching the history of a car.
That said, take a look at the attached image. What do you think of this car's history? It seems like a lot has gone wrong. But then again, maybe this car went in for repairs to a dealer who was dilligent about reporting work done... but a new catalytic converter at 30,000miles? That's odd.
What do you think? Is it a Lemon that wasn't reported as such, or is it something worth pursuing? It's in very good cosmetic condition... haven't had it mechanically inspected yet. The guy is asking WAY too much. But I think he'll come down.
Oh, it's a 2003 e320 wagon, 2WD.
Last edited by Kieran28; Aug 3, 2009 at 04:45 PM. Reason: minor change
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
Could this be a case of a dealership doing unnecessary work?
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From: Jacksonville Florida
209/W210 Estate /W211 modded by MBENZNL
Do not rely on Car Fax Info...I Have seen several mistakes on different cars
For complete service info go to the dealer and run the Vin for Complete history
from the PDI to the last visit at any dealer
The cats do have problems ...seen several on low mile 210s rattle inside
Brakes depend on How you drive ...its a wear and tear item
drive with both feet and or have it washed in a car wash and brake wear will suffer..
and I have also seen a few techs do un needed work
For complete service info go to the dealer and run the Vin for Complete history
from the PDI to the last visit at any dealer
The cats do have problems ...seen several on low mile 210s rattle inside
Brakes depend on How you drive ...its a wear and tear item
drive with both feet and or have it washed in a car wash and brake wear will suffer..
and I have also seen a few techs do un needed work
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
For complete service info go to the dealer and run the Vin for Complete history from the PDI to the last visit at any dealer
The cats do have problems ...seen several on low mile 210s rattle inside
Brakes depend on How you drive ...its a wear and tear item drive with both feet and or have it washed in a car wash and brake wear will suffer..
What does a car wash do that hurts brakes? I usually wash my cars myself, but when I lived in Buffalo, going through a car wash was a necessity in winter... we'd run our cars through about 2x per month to keep the salt at bay and to just get all the frozen gunk off. I wasn't about to do this myself when it was 0F outside!
and I have also seen a few techs do un needed work
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From: PNW
2001 E430
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From: Jacksonville Florida
209/W210 Estate /W211 modded by MBENZNL
Cars come in with hot brakes and go through a car wash with Cold water and the cold water on Hot brake rotors can cause a brake rotor to warp ...
Seen several
Best to let a car cool down before doing a wash.
Last edited by MARK CUMMINS; Aug 3, 2009 at 07:32 PM.
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
The one I went to in Buffalo was a gas station w/ a pretty nice "touchless" car wash. I'd pull in, get gas, and then wait in line (usually) to get a wash. I guess by the time my turn came the brakes were cool enough (especially sitting in sub-freezing temps).
I just sold my 2000 Dodge Dakota with the original brakes on it, and the original clutch (both still in great condition) - 120,000 miles. You just gotta know how to drive right, mostly.
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From: Long Island, NY
01 E320
I bought my 2001 E320 3 1/2 yrs ago with 58k miles. The car was in mint condition but the owner gave me about 2" of receipts from the local dealer. It included an insane amount of work under warranty, including new Cats, steering rack, dashboard lighting, various sensors, window motors, battery, motor mounts, etc. It obviously was not very reliable for the first owner. I was concerned but it came with an extended warranty so I took a chance. It's been basically flawless and I now have 103k miles. The way I look at it, the first owner got all the bugs out
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German
I truly believe also , a lot depends on how you treat the vehicle.
Like warming up the car in the morning before leaving .Giving the fluids to circulate
If in a hurry at least give it a minute or so till the idle drops after cold start.
Drive away slowly, engage gears gently, I 've seen people slam their gear levers from R to D and vice versa like it was a joystick.....TLC does a lot
Like warming up the car in the morning before leaving .Giving the fluids to circulate
If in a hurry at least give it a minute or so till the idle drops after cold start.
Drive away slowly, engage gears gently, I 've seen people slam their gear levers from R to D and vice versa like it was a joystick.....TLC does a lot
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
I truly believe also , a lot depends on how you treat the vehicle.
Like warming up the car in the morning before leaving .Giving the fluids to circulate
If in a hurry at least give it a minute or so till the idle drops after cold start.
Drive away slowly, engage gears gently, I 've seen people slam their gear levers from R to D and vice versa like it was a joystick.....TLC does a lot
Like warming up the car in the morning before leaving .Giving the fluids to circulate
If in a hurry at least give it a minute or so till the idle drops after cold start.
Drive away slowly, engage gears gently, I 've seen people slam their gear levers from R to D and vice versa like it was a joystick.....TLC does a lot
Also, I was always told that the best way to warm up a car is gentle driving, not sitting idle.
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From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Idling is very hard on a car. The best way to lubricate the motor, other than using the proper oil weight for your climate (if recommended by the manufacturer), is to simply drive the car gently for a few minutes. Cars are engineered to lubricate while the engine is operating and will not necessarily achieve sufficient oil pressures to lubricate all areas when idling.
The reason idling actually does more harm than good is that when you idle, you get something called cylinder wash. At idle, your engine isn't able to burn all the fuel mixture, and you end up with a very rich gasoline mixture sloshing around. Gasoline is a solvent and it will literally scrub the oil lubricant off of your cylinder walls and can also leach into your oil pan.
If you do a Google search for keywords like idling, damage, warm, etc. you will see countless articles from government, industry, and automotive sources advising to limit idling and merely drive gently for the first few miles/minutes. This is for engine longevity, fuel costs, and environmental reasons. On most engines it is important to let the engine reach close to operating temperature before you drive aggressively (high rpm, full throttle, etc.).
I once saw a Jeep that was being used a security gate to block a building driveway. When they needed to open the "gate," the guy would put the Jeep into reverse, let the car through, then roll it back forward. It sat idling 99% of the day with the A/C running. I pity the person who sees that car at auction: "wow, only 4,000 miles!"
The reason idling actually does more harm than good is that when you idle, you get something called cylinder wash. At idle, your engine isn't able to burn all the fuel mixture, and you end up with a very rich gasoline mixture sloshing around. Gasoline is a solvent and it will literally scrub the oil lubricant off of your cylinder walls and can also leach into your oil pan.
If you do a Google search for keywords like idling, damage, warm, etc. you will see countless articles from government, industry, and automotive sources advising to limit idling and merely drive gently for the first few miles/minutes. This is for engine longevity, fuel costs, and environmental reasons. On most engines it is important to let the engine reach close to operating temperature before you drive aggressively (high rpm, full throttle, etc.).
I once saw a Jeep that was being used a security gate to block a building driveway. When they needed to open the "gate," the guy would put the Jeep into reverse, let the car through, then roll it back forward. It sat idling 99% of the day with the A/C running. I pity the person who sees that car at auction: "wow, only 4,000 miles!"
Last edited by saintz; Aug 5, 2009 at 12:40 PM.
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German
let me clarify myself, idling and warming up the car is 2 differents things- i meant warming up is the ideal thing to do on cold starts, prolong idling on the other hand indeed can be harmful.
Also are you sugguesting if its 20 degrees outside- or lower and its frigid cold , I should just hop into the car and drive slowly and wait till I get heat 20 minutes later.
Also are you sugguesting if its 20 degrees outside- or lower and its frigid cold , I should just hop into the car and drive slowly and wait till I get heat 20 minutes later.
Last edited by martz; Aug 5, 2009 at 01:06 PM.
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
let me clarify myself, idling and warming up the car is 2 differents things- i meant warming up is the ideal thing to do on cold starts, prolong idling on the other hand indeed can be harmful.
Also are you sugguesting if its 20 degrees outside- or lower and its frigid cold , I should just hop into the car and drive slowly and wait till I get heat 20 minutes later.
Also are you sugguesting if its 20 degrees outside- or lower and its frigid cold , I should just hop into the car and drive slowly and wait till I get heat 20 minutes later.
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German
Dude!!!!!!....Im out of here
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
That was a self-deprecating joke, my friend. In reality, it was two parts: (1) I knew that gentle driving was the best warm-up for an engine, and (2) I usually couldn't get my $#!T together to walk out to my car to start it early enough to make it worth while. Just to walk to my car when it's 0F out, I'd have to be basically fully dressed & ready to go. When in a hurry, and I know that idling isn't great for the car anyway... I wasn't terribly motivated to slog through 75yards of snow (each way). If I was going to get out to my car, it was because I was LEAVING.
A third reason might also have been that I didn't trust the rif-raf walking on our street to not break the window and drive it away.
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From: Long Island, NY
01 E320
There is nothing wrong with starting a car and driving gently for the first few minutes. Waiting idle for heat is a waste of gas and time. You have oil and transmission pressure immediately. Particularly not a concern with the oil that most of us use, Mobil 1 0w40. Zero weight at cold temperatures, this stuff flows perfectly at freezing temperatures
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
Ditto
Just start and drive. M112 and m113 0w40 flows below zero. The cats come to temp via the secondary air injection in under 2 minutes. No reason to idle till rpm drop. Just start it and drive.The oil will come to temp quicker and circulate quicker and the engine will last longer.
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From: Charleston, SC
GL450
If you want to use a remote starter (or do it manually) so the car's warm before you sit in it, that's bad for the car, but it might be worthwhile for you. We all do things that aren't exactly good for our car but that are good for us (redlining, running the AC on max, etc.). If that was your original meaning, sorry, I must have misunderstood.
The one time that a remote start/stop to idle the car is actually good for it is a turbo timer, which is for the opposite purpose of letting the oil in the turbo circulate and cool (rather than warm it, like idling in the morning).
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
The topic has changed, but the original comment had nothing to do with idling... I was wondering if the car I posted about has had too much work done on it, or if the work done seems reasonable.
Thanks! The car is way too overpriced anyway.
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From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Looks like an obsessive owner. Brakes were probably replaced because they squeaked more than the owner wanted. Dealer would rather replace than rebed with anti-squeal. The ECU checks and cat replacement would make me wonder if it was either running rough or slow (not likely a wagon owner is complaining about it being slow).
Does it drive ok? Have you had it inspected? I don't see anything too bad, but I haven't looked at too many of these dealer service reports to know what to look out for.
Does it drive ok? Have you had it inspected? I don't see anything too bad, but I haven't looked at too many of these dealer service reports to know what to look out for.
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From: Cupertino, CA
2003 e320 wagon (210 chassis NOT a 211))
Have not had it inspected yet. Haven't even driven it yet. Was trying to decide if it was worth while to even pursue this car at all. Again, the asking is about $7k more than what I think the market will bear.
