Yellow Pudding in my engine ?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 5
From: Houston
1999 e320 ,2006 AMG S55
Yellow Pudding in my engine ?
So I went to go get a oil change today and I was peeking over the glass to insure they are using the oil I bought *mobile 1 euro forumula eff yeh!* when I noticed about 3-4 guys looking at my car,thinking to my self,hey am I going to have to show you where to put in the new oil ;p and so then one of the guys says I need to show you something
D:
The car doesn't smoke,runs fine,doesn't hesitate,doesn't over heat wth man ?!
The guy said it was a blown head gasket and says theres coolant mixed with the oil. He said he doesn't even know how the car is running,they wouldn't even touch the car and I drove it back home with no oil change.
Whats my next move gentlemen ?
D:
The car doesn't smoke,runs fine,doesn't hesitate,doesn't over heat wth man ?!
The guy said it was a blown head gasket and says theres coolant mixed with the oil. He said he doesn't even know how the car is running,they wouldn't even touch the car and I drove it back home with no oil change.
Whats my next move gentlemen ?
Last edited by kyosuke; Feb 19, 2010 at 06:46 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 416
Likes: 6
From: Reno 911
2008 S63 AMG Designo Edition
Looks more like Butterscotch! Man that is bad.....
Look for oil in the antifreeze as well. Any steam coming out of your tailpipes? Run a compression check or a leakdown test on the cylinders.......
But.....seems like it's safe to say that engine is toast. Start looking for a used motor?
Look for oil in the antifreeze as well. Any steam coming out of your tailpipes? Run a compression check or a leakdown test on the cylinders.......
But.....seems like it's safe to say that engine is toast. Start looking for a used motor?
Last edited by Red66GT; Feb 19, 2010 at 07:13 PM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Likes: 1
From: Buffalo, NY USA
2012 E550 Cab
Probablly head gasket, expensive but not fatal. If it is running good now, clean it up and it will run as good afterword. Could also be a sand casting hole in the head or block, but not likely. Looks like the water is leaking into the oil return side somewhere. The fluid, coolant or oil, will leak from the higher pressure side to the lower. Pulling the head will almost always tell you where the failure is. Clean all the gunk out and replace the gasket should be good to go. Good luck And oh ya, when you have the head off check for flatness as a warped head will do this as well, usually a result of overheating, but you never know.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 861
Likes: 3
From: Fairfield county, CT.
2004 Ran SRT-10,2007 S550,2016 E400c
No sit down you wont belive me.... its normal on the earlier ( 98-99) cars and trucks.. The oil fill cap is atached to the breather box on the valve cover... If you are familar with how a engines breather system works it re burns crank case vapors which include water and oil vapors and quess what water and oil vapor make butter scotch haha.
What i have found to help it alittle is make sure the rubber breather hoses are not collapsed, or clogged. If so you can remove the breather boxes and valve covers and clean them out and replace the breather hoses. But it might come back the re designed the drain back of the breathers on the later engines.
What i have found to help it alittle is make sure the rubber breather hoses are not collapsed, or clogged. If so you can remove the breather boxes and valve covers and clean them out and replace the breather hoses. But it might come back the re designed the drain back of the breathers on the later engines.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 178
From: Seattle WA
99 E320
+1 what the others have said. but there is a part of my brain wondering, too,
if you only drive short commutes from home to the transit parking lot or some
such. so accumulated short trips may not allow engine to reach optimum
operating temperature, ergo build up of moisture coagulated in the engine.
if you only drive short commutes from home to the transit parking lot or some
such. so accumulated short trips may not allow engine to reach optimum
operating temperature, ergo build up of moisture coagulated in the engine.
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Likes: 1
From: Buffalo, NY USA
2012 E550 Cab
I've seen this before but never to this extent, worst I've seen. Usually there's a little bit of residue from the oil water mixture at the breather, that's pretty exterme. I assume no gunk on the dip stick. Maybe want to run this a bit warmer and get rid of some of the condensation. As cold weather could be adding to the problem. A higher temp thermostat would warm things up a bit. Another thing to check is if the oil and coolant levels have stayed relatively constant. Your oil level isn't going up and the water level going down. Something to keep an eye on. Hope it all ends well
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 416
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From: Reno 911
2008 S63 AMG Designo Edition
With all the posts above (and all good info), if I were you, I'd start simple. Before you start tearing things down, start with the easiest stuff first.... As I said, look for oil in your coolant. Do a compression check. If your compression is fine, then it's not a head gasket and you can start exploring other options.
Reason I was saying this engine is toast is sludge like that in your crank and cam bearings will ruin them very quickly. And, not sure how you would clean all of that sludge out except to pull the engine and have a machine shop hot tank it...... I'm not aware of any ways to "flush" out the crankcase and all of the small oil journals throughout the block/heads.
Reason I was saying this engine is toast is sludge like that in your crank and cam bearings will ruin them very quickly. And, not sure how you would clean all of that sludge out except to pull the engine and have a machine shop hot tank it...... I'm not aware of any ways to "flush" out the crankcase and all of the small oil journals throughout the block/heads.
Last edited by Red66GT; Feb 19, 2010 at 09:47 PM.
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 278
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1997 s320, 1997 e320
don't worry it's just condensation, that is normal on early m112 engines, especially in winter and if you do lots of short trips. some do it a little less, some do it a little more. my friend's m112 does the same thing. i would just drive the car hard or take in on the highway for half hour or so a few times. personally i wouldn't even bother doing compression or leakdown tests. what you might do is take a sample of your oil and send it for testing, cost;s like $20. try blackstone laboratories, they will send you the kit for free, and will give you a report on your oil sample and by that you will know if there is any traces of coolant. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php
check with the guys at http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Board=1&page=1 who are pretty knowledgeable.
also if you think your engine has sludge, do 2-3 short interval oil changes, so if you usually go 7-8k miles between oil changes, now do a 2-3k mile interval oil changes a couple times before going back to 8k mile intervals and that should clean your engine in a gentlier way than those engine flush/cleaners.
check with the guys at http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Board=1&page=1 who are pretty knowledgeable.
also if you think your engine has sludge, do 2-3 short interval oil changes, so if you usually go 7-8k miles between oil changes, now do a 2-3k mile interval oil changes a couple times before going back to 8k mile intervals and that should clean your engine in a gentlier way than those engine flush/cleaners.
Last edited by tirona; Feb 20, 2010 at 12:19 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 5
From: Houston
1999 e320 ,2006 AMG S55
+1 what the others have said. but there is a part of my brain wondering, too,
if you only drive short commutes from home to the transit parking lot or some
such. so accumulated short trips may not allow engine to reach optimum
operating temperature, ergo build up of moisture coagulated in the engine.
if you only drive short commutes from home to the transit parking lot or some
such. so accumulated short trips may not allow engine to reach optimum
operating temperature, ergo build up of moisture coagulated in the engine.
Looks more like Butterscotch! Man that is bad.....
Look for oil in the antifreeze as well. Any steam coming out of your tailpipes? Run a compression check or a leakdown test on the cylinders.......
But.....seems like it's safe to say that engine is toast. Start looking for a used motor?
Look for oil in the antifreeze as well. Any steam coming out of your tailpipes? Run a compression check or a leakdown test on the cylinders.......
But.....seems like it's safe to say that engine is toast. Start looking for a used motor?
I've seen this before but never to this extent, worst I've seen. Usually there's a little bit of residue from the oil water mixture at the breather, that's pretty exterme. I assume no gunk on the dip stick. Maybe want to run this a bit warmer and get rid of some of the condensation. As cold weather could be adding to the problem. A higher temp thermostat would warm things up a bit. Another thing to check is if the oil and coolant levels have stayed relatively constant. Your oil level isn't going up and the water level going down. Something to keep an eye on. Hope it all ends well
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,564
Likes: 19
From: SoCal
98 Brilliant Silver E320 Wagon
I would agree that it's the buildup that occurs in that area when the car is driven on a lot of short trips in cold weather. Although it's pretty bad looking, it may have taken quite a while to form. If the car is running fine and the fluid levels are stable I would clean it up and then wait and watch. Try to avoid trips where the engine doesn't reach operating temp. Maybe walk to work.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 541
Likes: 22
From: USA
10 speed bicycle
No sit down you wont belive me.... its normal on the earlier ( 98-99) cars and trucks.. The oil fill cap is atached to the breather box on the valve cover... If you are familar with how a engines breather system works it re burns crank case vapors which include water and oil vapors and quess what water and oil vapor make butter scotch haha.
Seen very common. No need to jump into any diag, if coolant level is good, dipstick looks ok, and most importantly you have no drivability issue.
Now if it was caked up black (sludge) then I would worry.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Mississauga, Ont
2006 Mercedes-Benz E-320 CDI
mmm, pudding !
Have an authorized MB tech, dealer/indy take a look at that, just to be sure. Expect the worst, and hope for the best !
How much $$ does a used or rebuilt motor run on these cars ?
Have an authorized MB tech, dealer/indy take a look at that, just to be sure. Expect the worst, and hope for the best !
How much $$ does a used or rebuilt motor run on these cars ?
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,560
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210 55
I think this is not a normal condensation :S.. pretty sure. made a compressiont test & check for the coolant level.. if its all ok take of the head gasket & clean them up all the heads.. but i never see this by a NORMAL operating engine.. maybe in my country.. cause we have very hi temps all the year.. BUT... dosnt look very normal
Fabio Daniel
Fabio Daniel
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
completely (and sadly) normal. My old E430 use to produce plenty of butterscotch on the oil cap. Dipstick was always fine.
If the car doesn't overheat, the exhaust doesn't smell sweet, and you aren't losing coolant, don't worry about it.
If the car doesn't overheat, the exhaust doesn't smell sweet, and you aren't losing coolant, don't worry about it.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 861
Likes: 3
From: Fairfield county, CT.
2004 Ran SRT-10,2007 S550,2016 E400c
Like i said this is NORMAL If you want to perform a bunch of test i belive it would be a waste..
Entertain me on a few ???
Pull the oil dipstick out and check it what dose the oil look ( probably normal )
Open the coolant res. dose the coolant look ok.
Any smoke coming from the exhaust.
Is the engine running rough? mainly when its cold on start up.
If you oil and coolant look normal and no abnormal smoke from your exhaust.... and the engine is running smooth in my opinion it would be a total waste of money to pay for all the testing ( compresion, leak down) You only drive 5 min to work !!!! a normally running engine dosent get up to temp to burn off any condensation in the crankcase in that time.
I have been working on mercedes for over 13 years belive me i see this all the time on cars that do sort trips in colder climate ( im in ct)
Its your call though.. I would just hate for you to bring this to a shop thats not familar with this problem and start ripping this motor apart it would be a waste of you money and time
Entertain me on a few ???
Pull the oil dipstick out and check it what dose the oil look ( probably normal )
Open the coolant res. dose the coolant look ok.
Any smoke coming from the exhaust.
Is the engine running rough? mainly when its cold on start up.
If you oil and coolant look normal and no abnormal smoke from your exhaust.... and the engine is running smooth in my opinion it would be a total waste of money to pay for all the testing ( compresion, leak down) You only drive 5 min to work !!!! a normally running engine dosent get up to temp to burn off any condensation in the crankcase in that time.
I have been working on mercedes for over 13 years belive me i see this all the time on cars that do sort trips in colder climate ( im in ct)
Its your call though.. I would just hate for you to bring this to a shop thats not familar with this problem and start ripping this motor apart it would be a waste of you money and time
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 541
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From: USA
10 speed bicycle
Let's take a minute to use some common sense thinking. Usually when there is a headgasget failure between oil and coolant passages, oil ends up in the coolant. A compresion test in most of these instances will not indicate a problem between a coolant passage and oil passage. If coolant was entering the combustion chamber, then a compresion test will likely show you a loss, but you'll also have excessive white smoke out of the tailpipe at all times, as well as a sweet odor mentioned before.
So as mentioned time and time again...NORMAL. I work for a MB dealer in a metro area and see this very frequently. It happens to many other vehicles as well. If any of you have had the breather chamber covers off a 112 or 113 engine, you might have a better understanding why it happens. I can tell you on a 272 or 273 engine you'll never really see this on one of those oil caps, because they use a different breather system.
So as mentioned time and time again...NORMAL. I work for a MB dealer in a metro area and see this very frequently. It happens to many other vehicles as well. If any of you have had the breather chamber covers off a 112 or 113 engine, you might have a better understanding why it happens. I can tell you on a 272 or 273 engine you'll never really see this on one of those oil caps, because they use a different breather system.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 416
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From: Reno 911
2008 S63 AMG Designo Edition
I cant believe this is normal. I'm not disagreeing with you guys, but if this is normal of Mercedes then that's crap! Not a very well designed engine if this is the case. The damage that butterscotch like that can do to bearings and other moving parts is a death sentence. Am I the only one here who thinks that is unacceptable?
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Likes: 1
From: Buffalo, NY USA
2012 E550 Cab
I agree this appears to be excessive. But not certain this is a major problem. As suggested, it might be a good idea to pull the valve cover and see to what extent this gunk has appeared. I suspect it localized to the breather area. And would just clean as much as I could and then take this guy out and run the doors off of it, get it hot enough to smell it and know it's hot. Don't look at me like that, you all know what I'm talking about. Sounds like the best and most fun solution. If this stuff has migrated into the oil returns etc. then I might take a closer, more serious look.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,939
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From: Seattle WA
99 E320
red -
i think this is 'normal' in that it is a byproduct of folks who drive short distances
and not allowing the engine to reach normal operating temperature. if the
owner is not willing or unable to treat their vehicles as recommended, then
i'm not sure what else can be done, design wise.
i see the pudding as the accumulation and result of short trip, moisture,
climate, and low engine temperature....that is, absent any other indicators
of blown gasket, etc.
I live 3 miles from work. I care about my vehicles, therefore I choose not
to drive the Benz, 1200cc motorcycle, or 4x4 truck. instead, I purchased a
150cc 2 wheeler off craigslist..... and I withstand the laughs of 'hey, scooterboy!'
from my work colleagues.
no butterscotch for me.
i guess i view pudding effect like i do **** poor fuel mileage. by driving a car
for short trips, cold engine, etc. the economy takes a dive
i think this is 'normal' in that it is a byproduct of folks who drive short distances
and not allowing the engine to reach normal operating temperature. if the
owner is not willing or unable to treat their vehicles as recommended, then
i'm not sure what else can be done, design wise.
i see the pudding as the accumulation and result of short trip, moisture,
climate, and low engine temperature....that is, absent any other indicators
of blown gasket, etc.
I live 3 miles from work. I care about my vehicles, therefore I choose not
to drive the Benz, 1200cc motorcycle, or 4x4 truck. instead, I purchased a
150cc 2 wheeler off craigslist..... and I withstand the laughs of 'hey, scooterboy!'
from my work colleagues.
no butterscotch for me.
i guess i view pudding effect like i do **** poor fuel mileage. by driving a car
for short trips, cold engine, etc. the economy takes a dive
Last edited by raymond g-; Feb 22, 2010 at 03:49 PM.
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Lewes DE
'99 E320 4matic Wagon
The goop under the oil filler cap is going to damage the bearings how? It's under the filler cap.
If you had a blown head gasket you would have other problems, drivability problems, steam coming from your exhaust pipe, oily coolant, potentially over-heating, etc.
If the oil on the dipstick looks ok, as I assume it does, take the car for a long drive on the highway. Run it for an hour or more to get rid of all the moisture that has obviously built up from many short trips.
Then, while it's still good and hot, let them (or maybe somebody else!) change the oil and filter. Then enjoy your car.
If you had a blown head gasket you would have other problems, drivability problems, steam coming from your exhaust pipe, oily coolant, potentially over-heating, etc.
If the oil on the dipstick looks ok, as I assume it does, take the car for a long drive on the highway. Run it for an hour or more to get rid of all the moisture that has obviously built up from many short trips.
Then, while it's still good and hot, let them (or maybe somebody else!) change the oil and filter. Then enjoy your car.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 1
From: Newcastle, WA
2001 E430 Sport; 2000 E320 (RIP 9/9/09); 1991 300SE
just to give the OP a little peace of mind...I had this build-up issue when I had my old 00 E320. Granted, it wasn't as much as what you showed in the pic, it was still similar. I chalked this up to the short distances as well, since it never happened when I was commuting 45 mins. to work in the morning, but as soon as I moved within 10 mins driving...well, goop there it is.
After I noticed I happened to have the b-service done and all was checked and my indy came to the same conclusion - hope this scenario is the same for you so you can avoid any hefty bills and headaches.
After I noticed I happened to have the b-service done and all was checked and my indy came to the same conclusion - hope this scenario is the same for you so you can avoid any hefty bills and headaches.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 463
Likes: 8
From: Long Island, NY
01 E320
Take a nice long drive at it will be gone. It's an emulsion of moisture and oil because the engine never really gets hot up there unless you take a long trip.
I've had that before.
I've had that before.
