rschultz101

since the shocks where gone,
decided to put in bilstein sport / vogtland springs ,
story later, .... nightmare before christmas, after lowering,....

current alignment numbers:
front left right
camber -1.3 -1.3
toe 0.09 0.08
total toe 0.16
steer ahead 0.00

rear left right
camber -1.7 -1.7
toe 0.38 0.19
total toe 0.57
thrust angle 0.10

well first was worried, about wearing the rear tires down,
and needing eccentric bolts and camber arms, as not to ruin the tires.
what you think,.... put on eccentric bolts on rear, needed ok as is,
or enough of improvement ?

also worry about the front , beeing out of spec,
could they have done a better job ? or is -1.3 ok ?
.... those guys do sell tires,,... and don't know them,
so hard to trust ,...

what do you think ?

notes, specs:
W210 E300 TD 99, bilstein sport, vogtland springs
#4 pad rear, #5 pad front, front 170mm, from ground to frame stud, rear 173mm, 225/50r17 tires (2.1%, bigger), -> front fender corner tight.
did not want to go 45's, due bumpy road, and wanted little taller for lower highway rpms / MPG's, 235/50r17 should be fine in rear, but sold out
conti DWS ,.... only annoyance so far,.... picks up pebbles, really annoying ,
with windows down,... since fenders low, can't really see them, or put your hand in to remove, you have to jack up, to get to them.
tire pressure, current, front 32, rear 35 psi, rides a little bumpy,
curves solid, 25-30 miles, thinking, of going lower pressure, f/r 29/32

what's your alignment ?

rschultz101

do I need eccentric bolts / camber arm in the rear ?
is the front good / bad ?
what do you think / recommend ?

ejsheltra

When doing your front end alignment the dealer should automatically replace the eccentric bolts as they are needed to get back to proper spec. If you lower your ride by more than one inch rear eccentric/ adjustable camber arms are needed for proper spec. Otherwise you will wear out tires in about 10k miles. Kmac has good rear set ups and dealer can project the fronts. Other sources are out there for the rears.

dsmith

Thanks for posting your specs. Can you post the caster settings too?

Expect to be charged parts and labor for bolts, etc, which you will need to change camber. My thought is that you paid for some performance parts, so why not enjoy them?

Your settings look pretty good for a street oriented "performance" alignment, but if you aren't the kind of person that longs for clipping apexes, then you will probably get annoyed with the tire wear.

rschultz101

well, for what I'am been told, the rear is within factory specs !?

so, do I need eccentric bolts / camber , or is it good enough ?

what do I gain with the bolts ? 0.5 deg ?

also like to see your alignment numbers ? after lowering ?

the generic response, about wearing down the tires within 10k,
and better upgrade everything,.... without some numbers it's hard to grasp
for me,..... so, the rear tires can be run down, fast, within factory alignment specs ? that I don't understand.

caster settings,.... looked at the alignment sheet again,... they did not list any numbers for it ? do I need those ? they did not do it ? maybe because the other numbers where in the ballpark ? (alignment done not at dealer)

to change the the rear bolts to eccentric, $220 + $38 bolts, +$170 for alignment. stealer
camber arms, $280 + $120 install at my indy, + alignment $90

doing shocks and springs, cost me $2k,... due incompetent mech,...
the did not have spring compressor,... charged me $800 labor,...
changed the front pads twice, ... to high, to low,...
with wheels,tires, springs,shocks,and brakes, that's $3.2k in the hole,....

so far it seams, nobody is doing alignments !! no real numbers .... been guilty myself,... if they wear even (old) car,...
leave it alone, since they can screw it up, on your dime($), your time, and worse, your steering and tires,... so most people, don't do alignments,...

you got camber / toe ?

raymond g-

i installed Bilstein Sports and Vogtland purples onto my 99 E320. didn't like the
ride. felt the combo was waay too harsh. sold the springs to forum member.
opted to take the OEM springs and nip partial coil off for all 4 corners. ride is
a compromise. oh-so-slightly firmer, yet still OEM characteristics, lower ride
by an inch. thinner spring pads. nice, firmer, Bilstein rebound dampening.nice.

because the drop in ride was not large, i've not noticed any uneven wear on the
insides of the 18" tires (staggered front/rear). I would have been ready to get
the realignment. it's been a year of improved handling in side-to-side transitions,
increase off/on ramp speeds with only moderate body roll. i wasn't looking for
a BMW ride, just an improvement over the factory luxury boat ride.

it's just right now.



(i dont have numbers for you but i'll save yours in case I need to reference
them in the future though, thanks!)

dsmith

Sorry, i don't have specs for mine. Haven't aligned it yet (3.5 yrs), but i can tell you that mine is a stock 99 e320 and it eats the insides of rear tires in 15-20k miles. no feathering, just camber wear. Based on my experience with BMWs, race cars and various other street cars, i would guess it's not more than -1.5deg.

I say leave it, keep the tire pressures 2lbs over stock specs and see how the tires wear. Rotate front to back, if not staggered, every 3k-5k miles. If you want longer tire life, have them swapped inside out at 10k miles.

I just wondered on the caster, cuz I don't know what these have. I would guess in the 4-6 deg range based on how the steering feels. I would like it closer to 8 deg.

Personally, I don't align to factory specs. I align to what I want, and I want just on the slight side of + toe and close to -1.5 deg camber front and -1 deg rear. So, you see, I would be delighted if I checked my alignment and it read like yours.

rschultz101

thanks,

for what I can tell, by numbers the front should be no more than -1
and for the rear -1.7 in spec, still looks to much,
for driving, at over 34 psi, it holds like glue 25-30 miles on 90 deg turns
with the shocks, a little bouncy , think I will go lower, 30 or 28 psi in front , rear +2,
don't make sense, even with under/oversteer bs, since rear is lighter,
think 28-30 front and rear should be fine,
still think I should put in eccentric bolts rear, down to -1 or -1.2
ideal, to shorten the support arm, since the fender is going to be a crunch.
even with only 32mm offset, the front is a crunch, but because I went 225/50r17, instead of 235/45r17, 17" is fine, already stiff , and I got bumpy road, the 50 tires look nice on the car, need to post some pictures, and the DWS tires should wear little better than the conti sport, I got almost 2 summer seasons out of it on a maxima, those sport are ~300 ish, wear, the DWS are over 500 thread wear, but from what I know , my cousins E300TD, wears the outside of the front, due curves, not the rear, but he was stock.

for the spring cuts, on stock, that's the best,
except , you can't buy stock springs, maybe stealer, that's an arm and leg, and cutting the, usually the burn them with a wheel, and not precise, so crap shoot.
wish vogtland would make stock springs. lucky you, you got a prefect ride,
I got #5 front #4 rear, all I could do is let out air,... I don't mind, if the seat was not squeaky ,....

raymond g-

i bought stock springs with 2k miles on them for $30. forum member sold me his
old springs after he lowered his ride. you can look or ask around the forums for
same and hopefully, be as fortunate.

i use leveling measure with laser feature to locate vertical cut. not a crap shoot
unless your technique in measuring is poorly determined.

squeaky seat is a well known TSB so you may want to look into that.

rschultz101

did you do an alignment ?
any numbers by chance ?