gribble

2000 E430, 81,656 miles. This is one of those it works and then it does not problems, always fun. My wife was coming home from granddaughters lesson. She stopped at a intersection and just as she started to go the car died. She tried to restart it several times, it would crank but not run. Being only a block from home I went there to push her to the side of the street. She tried one more time and it started, maybe 10 minutes after first stall. No warning lights on dash. She pulled halfway into garage and it died, would not restart. I tried several times later, it would crank like crazy but not run. Maybe an hour later it started so I pulled into the garage, no warning lights on dash. I scanned it this morning, no stored codes, no pending codes. Autel-Auto Link AL 519. I did not try to start it this morning. Afraid to drive it. I have no idea where to start, any help would be greatly appreciated.

bbirdwell

Throw a fuel pressure gauge on the schraeder valve (looks like a bicycle tube valve) on the fuel rail. Possibly clogged fuel filter, possibly a fuel pump relay that fails when it gets hot (the W211 E55s are notorious for this). No codes indicates (to me) it is in the fuel system as that has minimum electronics to monitor.
If not that, go to Plan B (involves lots of head scratching while searching the internet).

https://www.mercedesmedic.com/fuel-s...hooting-guide/

gribble

Thank You bbirdwell, I picked a pressure gauge from O'Reilly's today, ( loaner ). Will check pressure tomorrow.

suicidal4life

If I were to throw a guess out there, my guess would be the crank position sensor.

gribble

Yesterday I started the car, no problem, ran normally. No dash warnings. It ran for about 15 minutes then died, would not restart. Ran scan no codes, no check engine light. I am doing fuel pressure check today. By the why I noticed that when it would not restart and ignition was on I could hear a buzzing near center of engine and the firewall. Thanks for the info suicidal4life, I thought I read that when the crankshaft position sensor was faulty a check engine light would be triggered?

gribble

Well I did the pressure check. Started right up, ran normally, about 58 PSI on gauge. 15 minutes later she died. I left the ignition on, bled the gauge, zero pressure. I notice while running I could hear a click, click, click coming from the engine. I listened with my stethoscope and found the clicking was coming from the fuel rail. After it died with ignition still on and zero pressure the fuel rail was buzzing not clicking. I think that means the pump has power and trying to pump but something fails after pumping for a while. Any ideas? Thank You.

Teutonic_Driver

crank position sensor. happened to me in exactly the same way.

gribble

Teutonic Driver did you have a check engine light? I would guess i would still have fuel pressure if the CPS was bad but I do not?

gribble

It just occurred to that the clicking I heard on the fuel rail was the injectors and when I lost pressure they where humming do to lack of pressure, just a guess. I am going to put the car on jack stands and open up the pump cover and do so more research.

Teutonic_Driver

No CEL. It won't throw a light bc RPMs remain below 500 when the CPS circuit fails and car stalls.

gribble

Thanks Teutonic Driver, good to know. It does not explain loss of fuel pressure, maybe I will be lucky, ha ha and both the pump and CPS are bad. When the car was driven home the engine was above 500 RPM and no CEL.

suicidal4life

You may be correct. It was probably around 2010 or so when mine went out but the symptoms were very similar. I don't remember the CEL lighting up but I could be wrong. The first time I was buying groceries and when I was leaving it just cranked and cranked and wouldn't start. I knew our CPSs were a common problem so I let it sit for about 10-15 minutes and then it started right up. A couple days go by and I'm on my way to jury duty and as I'm making a turn from one street onto the next it just died right in the middle of traffic. 3 or 4 tries later it started back up after less than a minute. After leaving jury duty I drove to the local dealership. They wanted over $200 for the part and couldn't get one in stock for 3 or 4 days. I went home and ordered it from an out of state dealership's online store and it arrived the next day for less than $100 including shipping. Why my dealer didn't just do that and mark the price up for me I don't know.

gribble

I hooked up a voltmeter to the pump terminals at the pump, turned ignition to run position but did not start it, 0 volts on meter. I started the engine, 13.79 volts at pump. Was running normally and about 12 minutes into run the engine died. I did not touch the ignition switch, left it in the run position, 0 volts at pump. Now I really confused, when the ignition switch is in the run position, not started, they should be power to the pump, right????

gribble

I am considering running a hot directly to the pump and see what happens.

gribble

I did more research and the way I see it the PCM tells the fuel pump relay to engage and sends power to the pump. Maybe the relay is opening after the current flow heats it. Maybe the CPS sends a signal to the PCM which causes it cut off power to the relay. I wish I had a spare relay to try and is there a way to test the CPS if I take it out? I think I am starting to chase my tail. HELP.

gribble

Sorry I am being a pest, more research done. The PCM on sends power to the pump relay for a short time if the engine is not running to reduce fire hazard in case of an accident. So if fuel flow stops and engine dies the pump will loose power. I have a chicken and egg thing going on here.

gribble

I just checked no power to pump until cranking then when it starts it maintains power until the engine dies. The on position no power until cranking, should there be power when the key is in the on position for a second or two?

PeterUbers

Possibly Cps ... no CEL necessarily, sounds like you're working through this methodically tho

gribble

Thanks for the ego boost PeterUbers, I figured people are probably sick of reading my comments. I think I my just put a new CPS in there and see what happens. I hate being a part swapper.

gribble

I decided that replacing CPS was the lessor of the evils. I know where it is and how to remove. The only way I can get is from below but when I wiggle my arm in there I can touch it but not squeeze it to remove the connector. If I could get that off I think I can get a socket in there to remove the sensor. It seems like to much is going on, on top of the engine.

Plutoe

My WAG is that if no power to pump with key in run you need a wiring diagram for the fuel pump system to determine why voltage loss and that aint a cps and sounds like a relay

gribble

Thanks Plutoe, when the pump looses power I can manually turn the key to crank and the power is back. I read somewhere that the PCM shuts off power to the pump if the engine stops, like I said , I was going on circles. Anyway I already ordered a CPS. From below I could only get my fat hand and arm close enough to touch it, I could not even squeeze the connector to remove it. So back on top I removed the wires from the coils, taped an inspection mirror to the fire wall. E8 socket with a 1 1/2" long 1/4" extension, 1/4" to 3/8" adaptor, to 3/8" universal joint to 10" long 3/8" extension and 3/8" ratchet. I put tape around the U joint to keep it from flopping around. I had to do that because I could not get my hand and the tool in there at the same time to direct the socket onto the bolt. Hopefully the install will go a little easier. When I get the CPS installed I will post the results. Thank You everyone for your input.

gribble

By the way Plutoe I was able to add a fuel pump relay to the order.

bbirdwell

OP, you're going to want to use a dab of heavy grease or silicon sealant to hold the E8 Torx bolt in the socket. Or have a socket that has a magnet installed in it to hold the bolt in place. In fact, I recommend you purchase a spare bolt in case you drop yours and it teleports to a place where you cannot find it...

gribble

bbirdwell that silicon sealant is a great idea. I am going stick the bolt to the socket now, it will be all set by the time I receive the CPS.