Ferrisbueller

Hi, I'm a BMW owner and have decided to purchase my first Mercedes. I'm deciding between a used 2003 or 2004 E320. Is there an advantage to paying more for the 2004 model (assuming that miles and all is equal). I can get a better price on a 2003, but should I pay more for the 2004? I've read the forums going back a couple of months and have found some useful information, but I would appreciate any advice. Thank you very much in advance.

CASL55

The 2003's had teething problems, and not all of them were software. That's probably why 2004's are priced more than usually higher.

If you're coming from a Bimmer, be aware that the MB is not as sporty a driver. Turn-in is more lethargic, less feedback through the wheel, and (thanks to SBC) no feedback at all through the brake pedal. I'm not trying to turn you away from the purchase (I have two MB's myself, and I like my E500 a lot), just want you to know what you're getting into.

Jim

benzboy

What model BMW are you coming from? If I had to choose and funds were limited I'd opt for a '03 E500 over the '04 E320. I've had many E class cars over the years and the V8 can't be beat! Good luck with your new ride!

jameson75

if these are your only two choices for the years, then go with the 2004. Might I suggest the 500 instead. If you're buying preowned, it might be a good buy. The 2003 W211, had lots of problems. Little bugs that come with the introduction of a new body style/engineering. Some of the problems include but are not limited to, electrical problems, sensor problems, radio/command problems, etc. nonetheless, you'll be more happy with the v8. I have no problems with my e500, in terms of power and handling. Grant it its not a BMW, and it shouldn't be expected to handle like the BMW. Let me tell you this, my other car is a MR2 turbo, its a mid-rear engine two seater, that handles like a true sports car. When I first got into a hairpin turn in my 500, it actually surprised me, in that it took that turn like a true sports sedan. I think it has alot to do with the DC airmatic(sport I and II controls)

DWP

Why? As between a Benz and a BMW of comparable age and model -

• The BMW is going to be a lot more fun to drive.
• The reliability will be similar, on average.
• The Benz will impress more people, but the people impressed by the BMW will be more worth impressing.
• The Benz will be better looking, but looks are a matter of taste.

- speaking as one who drove BMWs for 19 years.

Ferrisbueller

Thank you all for your replies.

Benzboy, I'm currently driving a 2001 525i.

DWP and CASL55, I agree that the Benz looks better and I agree that the BMW is sportier (the handling is superb), but I reallly like the interior and exterior of the E class and the drive, although not quite as sporty, is quite comfortable. It is not an easy choice, however, I've been considering a 2004 530i as well.

Jameson, I could afford a 2003 e500, but probably not a 2004. I didn't ask this question, but would you suggest a 2003 e500 over a 2004 e320?

BudC

Don't buy a 2003. Like most German cars of the first model year, it had lots of problems. I'm a former BMW owner and loved driving them. However, the current E-Class is a great Interstate cruiser and even though the steering hasn't got the turn-in response or feedback of older BMW's, it's steering is very precise at speed and is hardly worth complaining about. The E320 will perform as well as the 525i. It's not a dog and actually handles better than the V8 because it has better balance and less weight on the front wheels.

The current 5'er has been ruined by Bangel. The interior is especially a mess, primarily the dash. It looks like it was never finished and is made up of bits and pieces. Fortunately, BMW didn't let Bangel screw up the 3-Series.

Double Eagle

If you can get an end of model year 2003 E-500 with the Nav system in it, I'd take it over the 2004 if they both had comparable mileage. I had an early non-Nav 2003 E-500 and it was replaced after about 14,000 miles with a new 2003 E-500 built at the end of the model run. All of the bugs in my first E-500 had been fixed and this car has had no problems at all for past year with only a minor oil pressure gauge leak in the first year. In addition, it plays DVD's by using 3-5-7 trick talked about on this forum many times. They don't play while car is moving but you really shouldn't be playing them then anyway.

I have driven a friends 2004 E-500 and can't really see any difference in its handling or performance. The early 2003 E's had a poor throttle-brake interface and several other problems as noted in this forum. These problems were fixed in the late 2003 model run for the E-500's. I can't comment on differences in the E-320's for the two years but would HIGHLY recommend you buy the E-500 as opposed to the E-320. I also have the fold down rear seats in my 2003 E which I believe they did away with in the 2004 models.

Ferrisbueller

Thank you, yeah, I agree that the interior is awful. I don't mind the exterior, but idrive is awful. I'm leaning toward the 2004 after reading these responses.

GearHead

I think this is a hit and miss. I have first hand experience with a late model 2003. My E500 has been great so far other than the inconveniences caused by the stealership. The major problem I had was the brake failure because FJ Motors killed my brakes during routine brake work.

I know I will probably open a can of worms here ... I find my MBs really require alot of TLC. I thought my Bimmers were bad but so far between my SLK and E, I have to put in alot more effort. On the other hand, my Honda Ody has been workhorse. We just drive it, fuel it and drive it with the occasional service. That's my 2c. GL in your decision.

CE750

all this talk about Mercedes handling being less than good is funny to me... Sure, BMW's handle great (at low speed).. but as any German or someone who's actually driven on the autobahn will tell you... the King of high-speed stability is and always has been Mercedes... at 150+ a BMW doesn't begin to compare. And at low speed the Benz can hold it's own with most... .83g on the skid pad of a stock E320... better than the A4, and many other so called "Sporty" handlers.

CE750

also, to answer your question Ferris B, the '03 is much more likely to be a maintenance problem... unless you find a late build date (Mar, Apr 2003).. as there have been many changes and tweaks made since then. As a matter of fact so far the later '04 and '05 models have for the most part been very reliable from the data I've seen, which coincides with the massive injection of money MB made into QC (quality control) in 2003 to rebuild their status with JD Power.. they poured $2B into it.. and just recently decided to "Scale back" that effort... this tells me that cars built from mid '03 thru now are built to a much higher scrutiny than their prior siblings..

sacguy

I can tell you that I like my new MB E better than the 02 530i it replaced overall, I still have both cars and when I drive the BMW - it does have more steering/road feel and is a little more "fun" to drive on roads with lots of twists and turns, but the ride is busier, it has more road noise and is no where near as comfortable a ride as the E. I think the E looks better too - both exterior and interior. On your choice of years, I would go with a an 04 rather than the 03 in general. If you can find a dealer certified car and view the service records, I would consider an 03 E500 too.

rdtjr

My advice is to run away from any 2003, unless you can get a detailed history. Late build date is no indication at all of potential for trouble-free ownership. I have one of the last E500's built and it has a long history of problems. I just had the head unit and audio gateway (again) replaced. Currently waiting on delivery of an "improved" AC control module, which was replaced about 15 months ago.

gpt

As someone that made the switch from BMW to MB, my advice is don't do it. I have an 04 E500 and it's ok and drives smoother than my last BMW, however, handling is not comparable and if like me, you like spirited driving, that's important. Another drawback of the MB is that in my opinion, technologically they are 2-3 years behind BMW. I've owned my E500 for a couple of months now and I've already been back to the BMW dealer to see what kind of trade we can work out without me taking too much of a bath. JMHO.

BudC

Yes, the BMW V8 is more sophisticated than the 3-valve M113 V8 but on the other hand, the M113 has a big, broad torque band. I miss the way my last BMW drove. They really are the Ultimate Driving Machine. On the other hand, that car kept me busy fixing things to the point my wife told me I had to get rid of it.

BMW made a huge mistake letting Bangel screw things up so badly. It isn't just the Bangel Butt that looks weird but the slab sides of the 5'er. Even with that I might have been interested if it wasn't for the disaster he's made of the interior. The door panels and dash are a mess. It's good that BMW didn't let him screw up the 3'er.

For the vast majority of car owners, the current E-Class handles and drives just fine. It's a great highway cruiser with very precise steering. I took mine on a 4,800 mile vacation under all kinds of driving conditions and it performed and drove flawlessly. I was amazed at how well the seats worked on long drives.

Anyway, we all pay our money and make our choices.

BTW, there is now another choice for us. The GS430 Lexus has a lot to offer too.

GearHead

Hi there, can you let us know which month is your E500 built? The info is on the same placard where the VIN and color info is. My '03 was built in July.

Thanks in advance

CE750

July '03 would be a late '03... I would have expected them t be working on '04's by then... anyway... you had two warranty problems, A/C and Stereo related... how did the rest of the car do? if that's all you had, you're ahead of the average..

The neighbor down the hill from me has had 3, yes, 3 Honda Odessy's in the past 3 years, all of which were riddled with multiple problems... now he's suing the dealer and Honda to buy back the third one and he's going to research another brand.... that's what I call trouble... not two modules failing and being replaced.

Also, go hang out on the BMW boards and lurk, see how many guys WISH they bought an E class. The interior build quality of the BMW has gone way down, the electronic are even more unreliable than MB, and the the styling doesn't grow on you..

Get an E500 from '04 and be happy!

GearHead

I'm sorry to hear that your neighbor had problems with his Ody. I have 2 and they have been so trouble free. The only issue I had with my Ody was the clunking sound when I shifted my gears from Reverse to Drive and vice versa. It appears to be design issue and doesn't create any degredation of performance with engine and tranny.

As for the bimmers, I have a 3 series and X5 ... both are pre-bangle influence. Great handling vehicles but needed constant attention. My experience is that my MBs have been to the shop alot more often than my 2 bimmers. (Like many others, I left the BMW fold because of their new design and quality direction)

I have had major warranty issue with my E500 (definitely no A/C issue). The issues so far had been SBC and when the FJ worked on my brakes, made it worst and caused the SBC system to fail. Nearly got me into an accident. The second was static with radio. Had to replace my rear windshield to fix the antenna ... another nightmare caused by the dealer. Fixing the windshield led to breaking my GPS antenna system, broke numerous parts within the car (clips, trims and so on). Last but not least, COMAND acted strange but after software upgrade, has been stable ever since. Hopefully I will remain lucky with my E.

Therefore, my July built '03 appears to have behaved alot better than my SLK even though it has its fair share of visits to the dealer due to the dealership's lack of quality.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

CE750

Your SBC issue sounds like it was dealer induced... I would have sternly admonished them for that.. the only SBC "issue" that I know of is a recall to reprogram the counter and check a wiring harness on older models like yours.. neither of which were life threatening unless you had 300,000+ brake applications (impossible).

The fact is, cars are very computerized these days, and MB is always on the leading edge of these technologies. If one doesn't want the latest and greatest, they can buy Japanese and get technology that works every time (almost), but is otherwise lackluster.

GearHead

Yup.... most of my problems with my E have been dealer induced. I hate visiting dealership as I don't know what problems they will introduce to my car

I brought my SLK in yesterday for oil consumption test as it is burning oil at around 1 quart per 350 miles. (dealer claims that MB's stance is that it is alright to burn 1 quart for every 800 miles). Tested the vehicle for leaks and claimed everything is fine .... topped it up with engine oil and gave the car back. Drove it back to the office and heard creaks from the door panel ... long story short, a door seal is broken and I need a replacement part.

I won't be so quick to say that MB leads in technologies (some of us have voiced our complaints on lack of BT, clumsy Navi, inability to change stations from the steering wheel and so on). I test drove the Acura RL and was very surprised with its performance and feature laden telematics system. If I was in the market for a mid luxury vehicle, I will also consider the RL.

In any case, I am happy with my E and therefore per my original comments, '03 E500 can be fine as my late built has been good to me other than the crap the dealers have induced.

Ferrisbueller

Thanks for being candid. It's a hard call. I've gone back and forth on the 530i v. e320 comparison. I don't like the overall look of the new BMWs, but they clearly handle some driving conditions better IMO, but I did find the E320 quite comfortable to drive as well, although less sporty. Do you have the sport suspension in your E500? I'm curious if that makes a difference.

gpt

Yes, I have the sport suspension but it still doesn't compare. Someone stated earlier in the thread about MB being on the leading edge of technology. If I had known how poor the Nav system was I wouldn't have ponied up the money. BMW's is far superior, however, they both still fall short of Acura's. It comes down to a personal choice of whether you like the new 5 series style. Initially, I hated it but now when I see them on the streets, I think it's not too bad.

CASL55

I think you've got it right. I don't find my E500 unpleasant to drive at all. However, every time I drive my wife's 2001 540 6sp with sport suspension, I remark on what fun it is.

Jim

GearHead

I think the key word is 'sport suspension'.

Being a BMW diehard, I was hard pressed to buy something else when the E60 showed up. Exterior was too retro, but the deal breaker was the very bland interior, cheap interior material and awful i-drive interface. The 5xx with regular suspension was just like a MB E500 and only when equipped with the sport package, did the handling exceed the MB500. Naturally, I chose the MB.

So, if you can overcome the looks, the bland interior, and include the sports package, then I think the bimmer is the way to go.