reb03

I just filled my car at an Arco station and next to the super unleaded I was feeding my car there was diesel. A sticker on the diesel pump said "ECD Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel." Is this the same type of low sulfur diesel found in Europe or is this just low sulfur diesel by American standards....?

shoes

I investigated on ARCO's website and this is a new low sulfur diesel formulated to satisfy our clean air standards. Sounds pretty good.

http://www.ecdiesel.com/

CE750

I wonder what they are doing to offset the lack of lubricity when the Sulfur is removed. I for one believe in putting 1/4 bottle of Redline's 85+ into every tank for the added cetane and lubricity, but with this new fuel.... I wonder if these types of additives will be included at the pump?

TPAbnz

Their spec sheets show quite a bit of disparity in Cetane ratings by region:

Midwest formulation - 45 (min)
California formulation - 54

E55AMG99

Ultra LSD is mandatory next year, right? It's doubtful the petroleum companies are doing much at all to combat the lost lubricity of sulfur. I think they are expecting the engine manufacturers to come to the party and make pumps and parts that don't wear out with the new Ultra LSD. They have been reducing the amount of sulfur in diesel for years. The John Deere loader I just bought says it is fully compliant with Ultra LSD but guess what? The pump is not covered under warranty for wear and they recommend Stantadyne additive all year long! You can forget about my Cat D6 dozer. I rebuilt the pump only 5 years ago with updated parts that are supposedly Ultra LSD compliant but it looks like it needs it again just from the regular LSD we've been getting. Maybe injectors too.

Newer diesels will certtainly fare better than a 5 or 10 year old. Will we see extremely high mileage engines still running perfectly with ULSD? Probably not is my guess.

CE750

Which is why (and owners manual be damned) I'm using Redline 85 at every fill up. I can actually tell the difference in how the engine runs by ear!

reb03

Amazing. I know you're being extra careful but if I get a CDI do you really think Redline 85 or equivalent will be necessary for the current engine once the Ultra LSD is fully in use next year? This is something I'd rather not worry about and would be enough to turn me away from the CDI in favor of the E350. I would think the oil companies and/or the manufacturer would do something since it's not realistic to assume CDI owners will use these additives.

E55AMG99

I hear you. My supplier started adding Lubrizol before he delivers it to me. It didn't seem to help the CAT much be maybe the damage was already done.

Oh, well. I need to get rid of that ancient POS anyway.

E55AMG99

Personally, I think that 2 things will happen. The manufacturer's will improve their poducts and they will lower the recommened service life of the wear items. We probably won't see CDI's with 300,000 miles on them with having the pumps and injectors rebuilt at least once or twice.

CE750

YUP diesel reliability of 300K+ will become a thing of the past!

BudC

For those who don't know much about older Mercedes diesels, the injection pumps are lubricated with engine oil, not fuel. This is unlike cheaper diesels that use rotary pumps that rely on fuel for lubrication.

As for the new CDI's, who here knows how things work on them? How is the pressure for the rail injectors created?

I am willing to bet that no Mercedes will have a problem with low sulfur diesel fuel. After all, the sulfur content in most of Europe is much lower than even the new US Standards.

BudC

If this happens, it won't be because of the fuel. It'll be because the new rail injected engines are far more complicated than the older diesels with mechanical injection pumps.

reb03

Good point. Anyone know if the US 3.2 liter CDI engine has the same internals as the one that's been in use in Europe for a few years? I suspect they're the same.

TPAbnz

While I was at the factory, I was told that they are identical.

BudC

They are the same except for a particulate filter on European cars.

If low sulfur diesel fuel had been available in the U.S., then the particulate filter could have been used in the U.S. and would have made the CDI legal in all 50 states.