esport

I am planning to change my car for a BMW 650ci or 911 but I would like some opinion first.

Evil Duffman

650i. Unless you go for a Carrera S its not worth the money. The base level 911 is basically like the new Cayman, infact id probably take the Caymen over the base 911 and its much cheaper. If you dont mind spending 10gs more then get the 911 Carrera S.

its a tough decision. both cars look amazing.

lig

997S - no question.

I don't care much for the BMW. It weighs nearly 4300 pounds!!!

sosh

The new BMW's are stone ugly

stickygreen

997...you shouldn't even have to ask. BMW may be the ultimate driving machine, but it's no substitute for a Porsche. Plus, the new 6 series (IMO) is fugly and an insult to the original 6, which was drop-dead gorgeous.

A 997 Carrera S would be ideal, but a regular Carerra is nothing to scoff at. Get the Porsche!

Raj
'05 e320 cdi
'97 e320
'85 535i

esport

Actually I love the carrera s but I also have been seeing the cayman s which is also nice. I am interested in the new Z06 but there is no chance dealers here are getting any. I might consider the cayman because I would have to pay 40% tax over sticker msrp to any luxury car so the carrera s so going to be pretty expensive compared to the cayman S or Z06.

Brav

The 6 is a dissapointment. Coming from my diehard bimmer fan uncle who sold it for an E55.. I drove it, not worth the money. If you can get a deal on the 997 go for it, and get an S - resale will be much better too

CE750

which would make it safer... a major issue if you get into a wreck. The E55 AMG weighs 4400lbs. but is still a rocket ship.

lig

You're joking, right?

Because the car is heavier it is automatically safer? That is so wrong it's not even funny.

An H2 weighs more than all the cars we have discussed - would you rather be in your E or a Hummer in the event of an accident? I thought so.

You are also making the mistaken assumption that there is only one kind of safety. Safety is not just protection from driving into a brick wall. The concept of active safety also applies here as well.

The 997, weighing far less than the 6 Series is going to be able to more easily avoid accidents due to the increased manuverability. That is *active* safety.

Truthfully we need to know more about the needs of the original poster here. If he plans on taking the car to the track or to auto-x it there's no question which car is a better choice

I will assume the thread starter is o.k. with the looks of the 6 series since I think the car is rather unattractive. It might be cool in a MTV kind of way i.e. slammed with a body kit ridin' on dubs but that really isn't my style.

IMO the 997S is the best looking P-car since the 993.

The E55 is a rocket - at least in a straight line. It really isn't all that fun to toss around.

CE750

I would rather be in the H2 (or even better an H1) if it's with another vehicle.

I'm not joking, I don't joke about safety... I center my entire auto buying decision on safety. A heavier car is safer IN AN IMPACT WITH ANOTHER CAR.. FACT. I did a lot of research on this, and while I'm not naive enough to say weight is absolute, it's a major factor in surviving an accident with another car.

Passive safety is a whole different discussion... statistics however show that the majority of accidents that re fatal are not avoidable with passive safety, and apart from vehicle roll overs, they are usually multi vehicle accidents. Thus weight.

ToyCollector

You may want to read today's Wall Street Journal, both NHTSA and many vehicle company experts disagree with the premise that more weight equals more safety.

CE750

in the aggregate yes... but all else being equal more weight is more safety.. So that is to say... a 7000lb SUV may have a higher "deaths per million registration miles" than 3400 light sedan... but thats taken as a whole... if the two were to get into an accident.. the SUV would have a much better chance for survival.. The Laws of Physics don't suspend for WSJ or "experts" with a environmentally friendly automotive agenda (read treehuggers).

I've spoken to IIHS engineers about this at length, all else being equal a heavier car will be more survivable than a lighter car.

DWP

Seen any of those videos of a Smart car in an oblique frontal with a W211? The links have been in this forum in recent months. It's pretty amazing to see. The collision looks survivable as to both cars, but the W211 actually takes more damage than the Smart. As the WSJ article points out, Detroit has been arguing against higher mileage standards for years by saying that weight=safety, but it's increasingly obvious that the argument is bogus. I'm not saying that in a collision between a Smart and a Hummer, the Smart driver would be alive and the Hummer driver would be dead. I'm saying that both might be alive.

CE750

I have a copy of those on my hard drive... and while the Smart does well, by no means does the W211 take more damage! Look at the video again... the Smart's entire crumple zone is used up, the W211 has at least 2 more feet!

CE750

People... try to understand that SUV's aren't safer than Cars, and I'm not trying to say this.... BUT if weight is the ONLY factor.. a car is then safer.

Here is the real data: Weigtht Data

Also read THIS

E55 and 993

I think what CE750 really means is that he dislikes Porsches! Am I right Sam? Didn't you call my 911 a VW... ouch?! Everyone makes interesting points. But I would rather be in my E55 than my Navigator in a crash.

CE750

I think Porsche cars are very pricey.. yes.. I wouldn't go as far as say I don't like them. But my $$ would go into other cars first. BMW 6 being one.

That said.. if your E had a head on with a Lincoln Nav.. I can't say who would live and who wouldn't, - many variables play into this.. such as speed.. the E is VERY safe.. but the lincoln has 2000lbs on it... and the scientific data supports the Lincoln. even if I wouldn't want to own one. Weight is King in a two or more car accident. sorry.

lig

Well Sam...


It is true that if you only take weight into consideration then a heavier vehicle is on paper more likely to be safer. That data IIRC is simply a compilation of accident stats.

You never addressed the active safety issue which IMO is important.

We just have different priorities when it comes to choosing a car. I value the fun factor far more than the crashworthiness of a car.

AMG&AMG

Porsche ofcourse! no matter what .... SL or 911 , will be ok.. but bmw? c'mon.... 6 series is pure garbage , especially the looks ... fugly fugly fugly

Evil Duffman

it may not be a porsche but its far from ugly.

Bigdot

997

do it



do it

makr

stickygreen

I know looks are subjective, but I still don't understand how anybody can find the new 6-series attractive. The front end looks like a ***** with down syndrome, and the back looks like a Porsche 911 with a box strapped to the trunk. Now the original 6-series...there was a beautiful car.





Raj
'05 e320 cdi
'97 e320
'85 535i

CE750

Again I think a small car can be safe, and active safety can be anything, including speed... as my V70 Turbo once got me out of a near hit with a truck when the turbo kicked in and shot me out from his path! so I can see the "big picture" .. I was just making the point that size helps in the case of an actual collision (an additional factor). And I like cars with some size to them.. no matter how fun or not they are to drive.

Ironic that I am typing this as 1/2 mile down the street 2 hours ago a Camry had a head on with a Lexus SUV and the camry had a fatality. Very sad, and very ironic.

So my vote is for the BMW.

khaug

What do YOU want? The 997 is a logical evolution of one of the world's great sports cars. I've driven one. The level of handling, power and refinement is superb, especially at its price. The styling is classically beautiful.

The BMW, OTOH, is a ponderous, overweight luxo cruiser with almost no sporting pretensions. When the M6 appears with the V10, it'll still be fast only in a straight line compared to the Porsche. While the styling, IMHO, is perhaps the least offensive of the Bangle-era cars, I certainly can't find it to be attractive.

As far as the image projected, the Porsche says "serious, knowledgable owner", while the 6-series BMW says "poseur".

Good luck.

CE750

It's APPLES and ORANGEs.. . even the price is in another level... isnt' the 997 properly loaded just in the mid 100's.. while the BMW is in the mid 70's?

I agree the Porsche would drive circles around the BMW.. but it's not a comfortable daily driver either... you have to decide what you want from your next car.