TREZ63

Okay let me begin by saying I love my car and its my second MB and its been great. I tried to convince mom to go with a C-Class but she ended up buying an IS250.
I drove it the other day and I couldn't believe my eyes.
This car was fully loaded with the Nav/Luxury/heated seats/Wheels and all.

The Nav was so amazing and so well integrated that I didn't want to leave the car and just kept playing with it. It was all voice activated which I am not usually a big fan of.
Bluetooth and all that extra stuff is also integrated into the Nav which makes it super easy to call a POI business right from the touch screen.

That car even has SMG style shifters which is kind of a joke for that car (not enough HP)

then i got back in my car and felt like I was in a very elementary vehicle. Nothing special to play with. I know BM had most of those options but I played with them too and hated how lame and clunky and expensive they were ($2550 phone option at the time).

My question is, how many of you are going to keep an MB for your next car?
How many think that MB can catch up with Lexus in the integration department by 2007/08 when I am going to buy my next car?

I still hate Lexus, cause they're sooooo ugly. But I wish MB would do something about the lack-luster feature selection.

AsianML

The IS250 is short on hp, but the IS350 is not. You should have told her the rear seat room is cramping (althought the C is too, but not as much). I kinda like Lexus' new styling philosophy. It's aimed toward the younger crowd now more than ever.

DWP

Too early for me to tell. I plan to keep the E500 for at least another five years, if it stays reliable. Who knows what will be on the market in 2010 or later?

M-B will always be a few years behind the premium Japanese makes when it comes to electronic toys. German cars don't have the home-market demand for the toys that the Japanese makes do and, for that matter, Germans don't do cutting-edge consumer electronics anywhere as well as the Japanese. If you want the latest toys, go Japanese.

xraymd

My mom stopped by last week with her new Honda Pilot and showed off all the voice command features like adjusting the climate control and setting up the Nav. "But you probably have all this on your new Mercedes." I just nodded while thinking "Yeah, I wish."

MB Fanatic

I beg to differ with the last statement somewhat. My TL doest have Active Cornering Headlights, Distronic, Parktronic, Keyless Go, rear climate controls, adaptive transmission, Pano roof, or the sheer safety features built into my Mercedes and BMW.

Sure the Japanese have better NAV systems but that is where it stops IMO.

PHXATC

I've got my popcorn bucket ready, anybody got the Junior Mints?

Lookout, here comes the Lexus bashing.


I, too, like the newer Lexus vehicles. I think they are pretty cool. Then again, I like the MB vehicles too. In all reality, I think we will have one of each in our garage for some time to come.

ruykava

haha if i had a choice, i'd have an IS350 or 330i for the wife or kid; E55 AMG for daily usage; and a S550 for ahm, ahm, official functions... dream on... :p

i quite like the new IS in fact, but the centre console's colour scheme is really garish and some of the switches aren't nice. also i find the design too generic.

but Merc needs to do something about the C, IMO - younger buyers just aren't cosying up to them. every young exec wants his 3, NOW

TREZ63

Now that you started naming features here are some that I forgot to mention came with mom's car (The Lex IS250)

18" Wheels
Perferated real leather seats
Heated + Cooled seats
Active Headlights
Keyless Go with all window down without having to point at the damn door handle
DVD Nav (US/Can) With so many cool new feature I can't name them all
6-Disc front loading CD with lots of speakers
Voice activated (Phone/Temperature/Nav/Lights/ and tons of other stuff)
Bluetooth
SMG Shifter
Steering wheel controls
Automatic Headlights and wipers
6-speed automatic/manumatic
Reverse Cam (and a really good one at that)
The lexus version of distronic and it actually works
Parktronic was an option she didn't get but they had
Lots of airbags ...

But it still drives like a toyota

NOW, at the same time I would hardly compare your acura to either the MB or the Lex.

All that said, I think I might test drive that ugly azz GS430 tonight

MB Fanatic

Looks like she got a fairly loaded car. But lets face it, it drive like ****. It handles like a Toyota Camry. Lexus has no passion, history, or appeal to me. Their cars are just as boring as the company that owns them.

JWS3

Its not that I am displeased w/ my E500 (although I wish to God I never got black--what a PITA!!), I am thinking of a GX470 and going the "real" SUV route for a little more room and to stop being terrified of the snow in my hilly area. And yes-- I have dedicated snow tires on my RWD car. Still sucks the big one given all the hills, etc in my area. Without them it would be suicide. Also, I'd like a vehicle that can actually -- and here's a novel concept--- carry something on occasion.
The Benz has been fairly reliable, but I find it increasingly too fussy and hard to keep clean. Little things, like the inability to cycle radio presets annoy me as does the stupid cloth door sills. Every time I turn around there are more stone chips due to what must be paper thin paint. Never had this issue on past cars..... Smacking me in the face is the really, really bad resale value. These cars seem to be plummeting. While all cars lose value, these seem to be in a freefall of sorts. Lexus, on the other hand, seems to be slapping the Germans around to no end. Hate to see it happen, but facts are facts are facts......
While I find the ML class beautiful, it is basically little more than a tall car- no differentials and wholly unable to play with the big boys. I don't know what I'll do. Still mulling it over. But Lexus is indeed looking better all the time.

platinumsc

You can't resist the power of the dark side...the dark side called Lexus. Seriously though I've heard lots of benz owners try to degrade lexus but never heard anyone say they were ugly. You're entitled to your opinions but this is one not many will support. I'm not thrilled with all the lexus designs but none are ugly imo. Certainly not the new IS250/350. Both marques have a niche market following so there's no need to degrade either. To even try suggests you're beginning to give in...to the seduction of the technology, the reliability, the sweetness...of the dark side.

vraa

Eh, each company is targetted to different audience.
Your mom likes the IS? Wicked.
You don't? Wicked.

Either way, it's not like you can make a bad choice. Plus, I don't think it's a fair compro of thw W203 vs. the IS (new) because well, the IS is a generation newer.

BudC

Where's Hell on a Harley when I need him :v

allen_7

I will certainly get rid of my E500 when the warranty is up. But too early to decide if I will jump ship or not.

CE750

Fact: MB needs to be more competitive on the "Standard features" list.

Fact: MB is a superior car in every other respect to the japanese

Fact: MB will never change if you don't pick up the phone or drop them a letter telling them you expect more for $55K+

nuff said.

PHXATC

CE - you need to type up some form letters so we can all cut and paste our names on them and email them to MB. Imagine what we could accomplish. Real leather in our backseats, radio station preset scanning buttons on the steering wheel, and knowledgable service persons at dealers.

Somebody get Helga on the phone!!!







Or was it Olga?

CE750

Form letters don't cut it... they'll know its a campaign by a few then... it's got to be random, calls, email, letters and such.. and it's got to come from all over.. Companies will listen to their customers if enough of them speak out.

HELL ONA HARLEY

lig

I drove an IS350 over the weekend. Anyone who thinks that it drives the same as a Camry either hasn't driven an IS or can't tell the difference between a relatively high powered RWD and a heavily understeering family FWD people hauler. It's a very impressive car for the money. The 250 is fairly slow but the 350 really goes pretty well. Car & Driver got 0-60 in 5.1 and the 1/4 in 13.7 seconds and I believe it.

I like the looks of the IS (except for the rear) The interior is very nice.


Later that I got to drive my buddy's 996 GT3. Holy *****!!! That car is a track day wet dream. I'd probably get an Ariel Atom instead but dayum... fierce NA horsepower and tenacious grip with great feel. Heavy clutch/brake feel but very direct. It doesn't understeer like "regular" 996s. Awesome!

krispykrme

I also drove IS350 over the weekend.

I can say that both me and my wife hated it.

below is what i posted on clublexus. (BTW, i had a 01 solar yellow IS300 that got stolen).
__________________________________________________ _________

Took the wife out to alameda point to drive the IS350. Have to say that this car is a huge dissapointment. Lexus took a gigantic step backward in driving dynamic with the IS. My 2001 IS was fun to drive, easy tossable, and give driver a real sense of confident in pushing the car. This is simply not the case anymore with IS350.

My wife wanted to checked out the IS350 because she is still not sold on the 330i and need to test drive the IS350. So in order for her to feel the difference between the two. She and i went with 330i 1st. The 330i was fun to drive. Excellent steering response. Good power. The chassis is so willing to be tossed around. This car is simply fun to drive. My wife was extremely impressed by the driving dynamic of 330i. The car simply gives driver so much confidence on the course that lexus setup. The steering is laser like precisel with great steering response. As speed builds up the steering tightens. Just what you expect from a sports sedan. The brake is excellent with great feedback.

Then come the IS350. The interior is nice and warm. Material is good but not great. The car I drove has 785 miles on it, unlike other lexus this one has a rattle from the passenger door (probably an isolate case). However, there is a huge problem i have with IS350's interior. The steering wheel is way too thin and offers very poor grip. For what suppose to be a performance car in the lineup, the thin steering wheel simply does not cut it.

Now the driving impression. I really don't know where to begin. This car is so confused on its purpose. Let's start with the good. The engine and transmission on the IS350 is excellent. There is no doubt about it. The power comes on quickly and ferociously. In a good driving dynamic car, this is a good thing. But for IS350 this is an negative. The problem with IS350 is that the driving dynamic is simply horrible. The steering is way over boosted and never tightens as the speed builds up. It is simply way too light thus making the steering response totally numb. As a driver you simply have no clue where you are heading. There is way too much body roll, the suspension is way too soft. So when the power comes, the driver simply has no clue where the car is going. The 330i feels so much confident and poised through the turns, and apply the power, the driver can confidently power out of curve. With IS350, the power come on quickly, but with lousy steering and body roll. The driver simply have no clue where the car is going. You are just fumbling through out the turn. This car is just awful to drive. My wife after test driving the IS350 was totally turned off by it. According to her, the IS350 is simply awful to drive. She has no clue where the car is going. The steering is way too soft. She feels like she is losing control through out the course. The car just floats way too much. Her exact comment was that she has no clue why lexus would even bring the 330i sport in the same test. The IS350 was a totally embarassment.

So quick scorecard.

Engine- A+. The 3.5 V6 is powerful, quiet and smooth. Excellent engine.
Transmission- A. Again smooth and quick reaction.
Chassis/suspension- F. Suspension is way too soft for a sport sedan. The chassis is tuned way too much toward comfort. Body roll is abundant through out the turn. This car simply does not like to be tossed around.
Steering response- F. Too much boost through the speed range. The steering never tightens when speeds builds up. At higher speed turns, the steering wheel is so light to the touch it is down right scary. The steering response is so vague. As a driver, you simply have no clue which way your tires is turned and how much. This is not what a performance sport sedan should be.
Brake- A. The brake's stopping power is good.
Brake response- D. Lexus has copied mercedes SBC unlinear response verbatim. The brake response is not linear and way too agressive. 330i's brake response is far more linear and easier to modulate.

Overall vehicle dynamic- F. This car is all engine. The powertrain simply overshadows the chassis, the suspension, and steering. Through out the test drive. I felt that the rest of the car simply is overmatched by excellent power train. It seems like lexus spend all of the resource on desiging an excellent engine and transmission and has nothing else for the car.

Interior packaing- A. The dash is clean and legible. The navigation screen is good. All the buttons are exactly where you expect it to be. Good material inside as well. The leather and wood are decent as well. For $45k this should be expected.

Space- D. The room up front is not bad, but not great either. As a driver i felt a little tight. The windshield it too close to the driver and give a sense of tightness. The 330i on the other hand feels much more open up front. The back on the IS350 is simply not acceptable. It is simply too small for it to be useful.

Oveall interior- B. This is simply due to the lousy backseat .

Overall- D-.

This is a huge dissapointment from lexus. My old 2001 IS300 was fun to drive. Even though it is little under power. The car is so tossable around the corner. The old IS300 gives driver more confidence in driving it hard. It was just fun to drive. Even though the old IS300's dash is little too busy and has not useable backseat. The vehicle dynamic made up for all those short coming.

Fast foward to 2005. The power is now there. The engine is great. But what happened to the vehcile dynamic? Lousy steering response. Too soft tuning of chassis and suspension. This car is no longer fun to drive. The car no longer gives driver the confidence to push it hard. This is no longer a fun car.

I really don't understand what lexus is aiming to achieve with the IS. IS is suppose to be a small RWD sedan with excellent handling and performance. For straightline performance, IS did suceed on that front. But handling is simply not there. If lexus is going to take that away, why bother with the IS. Put the 3.5V6 in the ES and call it a day. The ES is roomier and probably will do just as bad as IS did in turns. For $45k loaded for an IS350, the ES is a much better buy with more usable space at $38k.

To be honest. I really can't think of a car that has this bad driving dynamic in this class. This is just a horrible car with great power. Lexus killed the IS. This car is no longer fun to drive. Yes, lexus did improve the cheap IS300 interior by a ton. The engine got improved by light year. But there is more to a car other than a good interior and powertrain. If lexus is serious in taking a shot a 3 series they need to do a better job. The new IS is simply a small car with no useable rear and good at only straight line performance. I am real dissappointed. They took a little fun car and killed it. Had lexus kept the IS300 driving dynamic and simply stuffed this great 3.5 V6 in it. That car would be a winner. As it stands, this car really blows.

jdhoang

Wife drives a Lexus GX-470 which is nice, but it is INCREDIBLY annoying that Lexus doesn't trust you or passenger to enter anything on Nav unit when vehicle is moving. Someone posted an override method at clublexus, but this has to be entered everytime the car is started. Not sure if new Lexus still have this restriction..

My brother-in-law just recently brought an Acura RL, which has an unbelievable amount of features (4WD, sat radio, DVD audio, etc.) for the money. He paid $10k less than what I paid for the E320. If the RL was available at the same time I brought the E320, it would have been a tough decision. But I love my panoramic roof, and I actually like the E interior better.

CE750

Good review Krispy.. and we all know you're no HUGE fan of MB.. so that carries a lot of weight.

CE750

I agree, MB has some homework to do in this dept.. I think when the cost of labor in Japan, and the fact that the RL is produced 97% in Japan.. the MB's should be more competitive, maybe not same price/features as the MB is a significantly superior chassis, and drive trane.. but no enough to justify the $20,000 price difference. To get an MB with all of what comes standard on a RL the E500 would sticker for well over 70K, and that's not acceptable when you consider the RL is 200lbs heavier, AWD, and has every feature available in a car today standard.

cyclerider

I will stay with the huge torque of the MB diesel. There is no comparison to the competition.

rjm

WARNING: If you sell your Mercedes and buy a Lexus you will incur the undying wrath of all the True Believers who understand that there is no finer car on this earth than the Supreme Mercedes! I sold mine and bought a Lexus and have never been happier with any automobile that I have owned. However, I will warn you, I still get death threats in the middle of the night, and I have had hand-grenades thrown at me when I am cruising down the freeway with a big smile on my face. So far I have escaped death or disfigurement, but it has not been easy. Only the fact that my Lexus will out-accelerate and outperform any Mercedes on the open road has saved me from pure disaster. :p