Consumer Report Gives Thumbs Down on German Cars
#126
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by PHXATC
Uh-oh, here we go with the watches again..........next it's the rear seat leather issue.
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#127
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 15,903
Received 4,441 Likes
on
3,153 Posts
'71 Pinto
Yeah but Sam’s correct – Patek Philippe for events, and (in my case) Baume & Mercier everyday. Now you guys can continue with your arguments.
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#128
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5,517
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
6 Posts
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Hate to be a "snob" but a Rolex in SS and Gold. A present from my wife (bless her soul) in 1989 for my Birthday. No complaints on the timekeeping ability...guess I got a good build date
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#129
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Multiple
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
I say again...I have nothing against Lexus or Toyota. But this is a MB forum and it is here to inform it's users about the features of MB automobiles, not tell the members their cars are POS and the Japanese do it better.
#131
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
Hate to be a "snob" but a Rolex in SS and Gold. A present from my wife (bless her soul) in 1989 for my Birthday. No complaints on the timekeeping ability...guess I got a good build date ![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![off topic](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/ot.gif)
I had a blue dial two tone Sub for a while, and my wife still wears her Mother's Day gift two tone that I got her 5 years ago... Rolex has a LOT of snob appeal, but they are low on the pole of "fine horologie" in terms of hand craftsmanship etc.. Again, I own one.. not nocking them, but just stating the fact that they're not a Patek or Audemars..
And more on the topic, explaining how something doesn't have to be 100% reliable to be good... Audemars sport watches don't hold a candle to Rolex for ruggedness, but a Solid Gold Rolex costs less than an all stainless steel Audemars, and a Gold Audemars with complicated movement can cost $450,000 or more...
Arnold Schwarzenegger's piece
And another Here
Learn more about "fine watches" here: http://cdctime.com/mech.html
#132
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
Gee, I thought the forum was to discuss Mercedes automobles.....the good AND THE BAD...it's just guys like you who won't face up to the fact that there might be some serious problems with the quality of their sacred nameplate. For you, it is sacreligious to even suggest there may be something wrong with MB. Comparing them with other brands, whether it be Lexus, BMW, or Cadillac, simply points out that it IS possible to build a high-end car that has Reliability and Dependibility as a trait.
My analogy about watches can teach you a lot about the term "quality" and how different people apply it in different ways..
#133
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
c'mon guys - admit it. you'd miss rjb if he were gone.
This would be one boring forum without a little controversy now and then.
On a serious note - one nice thing about a car forum is that it is a great place to do some "homework" for prospective owners. You can't get good info if all you get is "wow - we have got the greatest cars here in the world - the most reliable, the best hood ornament, the most prestiege blah blah blah..."
When I had my W211 - I certainly found it useful for short term fixes like pulling the fuse for resetting my frozen radio and the SBS TSBs and other issues.
Mine was an electrical POS - the rest of it was very nice for the most part. And if anyone wants pics of my W211 - I'll gladly post them. :p
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
On a serious note - one nice thing about a car forum is that it is a great place to do some "homework" for prospective owners. You can't get good info if all you get is "wow - we have got the greatest cars here in the world - the most reliable, the best hood ornament, the most prestiege blah blah blah..."
When I had my W211 - I certainly found it useful for short term fixes like pulling the fuse for resetting my frozen radio and the SBS TSBs and other issues.
Mine was an electrical POS - the rest of it was very nice for the most part. And if anyone wants pics of my W211 - I'll gladly post them. :p
#134
I own a 85 dollar Guess watch that seems to tell the time just fine. I also don't have to worry about abusing it since it only set me back 85 bucks.
I think I buy a new watch every 18 months or so... Fossil or Guess both about 80 bucks. :p
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I think I buy a new watch every 18 months or so... Fossil or Guess both about 80 bucks. :p
#135
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5,517
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
6 Posts
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Originally Posted by rjm
Gee, I thought the forum was to discuss Mercedes automobles.....the good AND THE BAD...it's just guys like you who won't face up to the fact that there might be some serious problems with the quality of their sacred nameplate. For you, it is sacreligious to even suggest there may be something wrong with MB. Comparing them with other brands, whether it be Lexus, BMW, or Cadillac, simply points out that it IS possible to build a high-end car that has Reliability and Dependibility as a trait.
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
I have indicated on many occasions the problems of some MB models and discussed in detail the Bad as well as the Good. You don't point out anything other than how poorly the car is built (all of them) and post some troll gathering survey with negative intros. You don't compare you tear down.
It is your presentation rjm...discuss all you want the weaknesses of the MB models and I will listen and comment when appropriate. However, I will not listen to you repeating your diatribe of the MB is crap and the Japanese is the ultimate. Just how long has it been that you have not been a MB owner...the 210 in a 211 forum is not talking apples and apples. Why as a non-owner do you continue to come back everytime a new survey comes out and post it with some snide troll looking remark?
Bye for now rjm...
#136
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
It is your presentation rjm...discuss all you want the weaknesses of the MB models and I will listen and comment when appropriate.
#137
Super Member
Originally Posted by CE750
True... in my case, there are pics of my car in my profile. I even recently posted a picture of the Title which I just had sent! ![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Nevada has his S in his sig, as does HoH... but many critics are not very convincing as "owners"
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Nevada has his S in his sig, as does HoH... but many critics are not very convincing as "owners"
My wife's CLK is still at Fletcher Jones in Fremont this morning getting the stupid top fix since monday. She has been driving my E55 these couple days after getting it back from body shop.
So, you guys can't win the argument, and this is what you can come up with?
You guys make me laugh. I posted my vin a long time ago in the E55 section, go look it up.
#138
Super Member
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
"I see no end to this discussion. You are like a one way street...you like to talk but do not listen.
Who is not listening and has not counter proof.
You are saying that toyota parts are bad and cheap.
Okay Mr. Einstein. I already gave you the 3.5V6 on the cheap Avalon as an example. Based on your logic this engine is designed to the level of corolla hence low quality low performance piece of junk.
However, according to EPA this enigne is cleaner, more efficient, and actually way more powerful than the E350's new V6. So what does that make MB's new V6. A hyundai's quality of V6?
You simply refuse to listen and accept the idea that Toyota makes great product. Last time i check Toyota is doing not bad this year in F1 (2nd year). Toyota i believe was the 2nd team in F1 that does the entire car.
No one is asking you to convert to a toyota lover. Because its car are boring to drive. But at least wake up and crawl out of your hole and see what is going on with the industry.
Give credit where it is due. Toyota certainly have technology whether you like it or not. The simple fact that toyota as a group is doing extremely well and pose to become #1. Consumer are not stupid simple as that.
So don't chicken out and answer my question on the 3.5V6.
#139
Super Member
Originally Posted by CE750
MB pioneered, ABS, ESP, Crumplezones, Pre-tentioners, Diesel cars, central locking system, and many other firsts that don't come to mind, what has Toyota "pioneered"?
Toyota has taken the ESP further with VDIM, which is again missing on the german counterpart (although I don't like VDIM as it took way too much away from driver's control. But for majority of driver it is a good safety feature).
Toyota is much further ahead in direct gasoline injection. Even though it did not export the technology into US until this year on the IS. It has been building in Japan for last 10 years or so. We still have not talked about 5 valves per cylindar (which i believe toyota beat ferrari to market by couple month with its corolla in Japan).
Toyota is also much further ahead with HUD/wi-fi integration in the car. I belive it is also the 1st car company that has wireless mesh network capability in their car.
Just because Toyota does not export its latest technology does not mean it does not exist. Unlike european companies, toyota is very conservative with exporting technology to mass market. This is a culture difference between the companies. Japanese take their time to mature their technology and once ready they launch full assult. The european will try and fix along the way. In the process of doing that customer are paying either higher premium waiting for them to get it right (look at command and phone intergration).
BTW, toyota had a CD-rom base navigation system ready for use for the 97 camry (which i believe was ahead of DCX in US). But did not release it because of CD-rom base navigation is too slow and not enough data point. (you can go find a copy of motor trend in which they showed a pre-production camry with navigation back in 1996). Toyota choose to wait until 01 when DVD navigation is ready and make it available on nearly all of its product line within 3 years.
Different philosophy does not mean it has no technology available. Some company takes their time to do it right the 1st time, some prefer trial and error. But to blindly slam other without full understanding is obsurd and dumb.
#140
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by krispykrme
posted my vin a long time ago in the E55 section, go look it up.
#142
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by guitarplayer
I think RJM's 211 looks stunning. His Avalon looks ok, a little dated, but nice.
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
but we know what you meant...
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#143
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5,517
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
6 Posts
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Originally Posted by CE750
anyone can read a VIN off a car and post it... I can post the title to my car.. that's proof!
#144
Originally Posted by CE750
anyone can read a VIN off a car and post it... I can post the title to my car.. that's proof!
I really wish this meant I had an SLR MClaren sitting in my garage!
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
#145
Super Member
Originally Posted by CE750
anyone can read a VIN off a car and post it... I can post the title to my car.. that's proof!
i had someone on the E55 forum to look up my car's service record to prove that my stupid airmatic did break.
like i said, both you and nevada jack are simply ignorant fool that is living in world in which the earth is flat.
#146
Super Member
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
Let them preach to their own choir CE...rjm and krispykrme are so wrapped up in their own little world of Toyota and Lexus that they forget this forum is about MB cars. One doesn't even own a MB and the other claims to have a stable of them but all they can talk about is Toyota. I am out of here on this thread.
This is mb forum, however, this is also a public forum. As long as your truthful there is nothing wrong.
unless you are like typical racist or **** where truthfulness is not allowed and kiss anything that germany made as god creation. In that case i can understand the german superiority complex is from.
i can state the truth the way i see it. So far neither of you has come back with anything concrete other than making a fool out of yourselves.
#147
Originally Posted by krispykrme
do you think i can't?
i had someone on the E55 forum to look up my car's service record to prove that my stupid airmatic did break.
i had someone on the E55 forum to look up my car's service record to prove that my stupid airmatic did break.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL410
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by krispykrme
unless you are like typical racist or **** where truthfulness is not allowed and kiss anything that germany made as god creation. In that case i can understand the german superiority complex is from.
That said, so does "Made in Japan" I have $1000's in Nikon optics, as well as a set of steak knives that shame my German cooking knives.. Japan is a great nation, with great stuff, but their car's are a step above the US, which isn't saying much..
#149
Super Member
Originally Posted by CE750
I am neither a racist, or ****, but I am a Germanofile.. I love most everything German, from the beer, and food, to the cars and other fine products.. "Made in Germany" means a lot to me.
That said, so does "Made in Japan" I have $1000's in Nikon optics, as well as a set of steak knives that shame my German cooking knives.. Japan is a great nation, with great stuff, but their car's are a step above the US, which isn't saying much..
That said, so does "Made in Japan" I have $1000's in Nikon optics, as well as a set of steak knives that shame my German cooking knives.. Japan is a great nation, with great stuff, but their car's are a step above the US, which isn't saying much..
But give credit where it is due. I don't think Japanese car are a step behind german. Depends on which area you look into, Japanese are quiet ahead in some area (such as electronics, hybrid, direction injection....). They are behind german in driving pleasure (although more like behind BMW). But they do have advantages that DCX/BMW does not have.
Japanese are very good in small displacement. However, they are now beginning to agressively moving into larger displacement. No one know that Toyota already has a V12 in production. A high output N/A V10 is right around the corner.
Don't dismiss anything. Consumer always benefit from competition. Lexus are boring to drive, and a pain to own (since it never dies, i never had excuse to buy another car). But they do make good product in area they focus on.
It simply not my cup of tea, but i am not going to dismiss it as a glorified toyota.
#150
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Multiple
Originally Posted by guitarplayer
I think RJM's 211 looks stunning.
Thanks...I thought it was a great looking car too. I just didn't get to look at it very often because it spent so much time in the shop.
![Mad](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif)