nantucketsleigh

Might impact me if I had any confidence in consumer reports. From vacuums to cars their advice has proven useless in my experience.

krispykrme

Where did you get the information from?

The 3.5V6 in toyota has two different tuning to differentiate it from Avalon use and IS use.

In the IS350 application is produced 306 HP@ 6400 and 277lb-ft@4800.

BTW, the toyota 3.5 V6 has 85% of torque available at 2500 RPM- which means 235 lb-ft is avialble at 2500 RPM.

The Toyota 3.5 V6 has way more HP at 306 and slightly less torque. But beats the MB new V6 in efficiency as well.

The avalon HP got rated down to the new SAE standard which i don't believe the E350 has been rated yet because E350 was onto the market prior to the new standard went in just couple month ago.

You have a master degree in mechanical engineering so what?

1st of all, you do not know anything about new SAE standard.
2nd. The 3.5V6 on toyota has three different tuning for different application.

The fact of matter is that under the old standard the Avalon 3.5V6 produced 280HP @ 6200, 260lb-ft@4700.

Also, the transmission of 7 speed vs 5/6 is true. But where does this apply to discussion. Funny thing is that a piece of junk 3.5L V6 from toyota in a toyota application generate more HP, more efficient, and significantly cheaper at $30k+ vs $50k+ for E350.

Like i said, admit that you and other were simplpy bashing japanese car because they are in fact made by japanese.

BTW, the Avalon V6 already has continous variable timing for both intake and exhaust. In fact VVTi has been in use in the avalon range since early 2002 in the previous model.

Moreover, in the IS350 application, not only it has VVT-i. It has direct injection hence much more clean burning and efficient. Toyota took the direct injection out of Avalon to ensure more product differentiation.

I guess your master degree seems to be useless.

This toyota V6 comes with VVTi, VVTi+ direct injection, VVTi+Direct Injection+turbo for domestic use, as well as upcoming VVTi+Direct injection+electric motor for hybrid use.

Last time i check, the DCX V6 is missing direct injection as well as hybrid option. OMG. The DCX motor has no direct injection? Wow this is more advance than a motor with it. Wow. Must be some great engineering school.

Direct injection into combustion chamber requires far more precise fuel managment control. In addition, it is more susceptable to damage from higher sulfur content in the US gasoline. I guess this is ignored completely by someone who have a master degree in mechanical engineering.

Son, next time you want to argue, please dig up more information before speaking. Spanking? It looks like i just spanked you pretty badly.

krispykrme

Very funny you mentioned that.

The toyota diesel has the same technology as you guessed it. DCX. Both are common rail diesel.

Thank you for playing.

rjm

Jack, you're like the Energizer Bunny...you say you're leaving this thread (about 30 posts ago), but you just keep "running and running."

But that's OK, your posts are always entertaining and welcome. I'll bet if we had a beer together, we might even find some points we would agree on.

Have a Great Thanksgiving....to you and all the other members of this forum who keep it interesting and entertaining. :p

From your favorite Nemesis,

Nevada Jack

Sometimes it is hard to not say something...:-)

Same to you on the Happy Thanksgiving...see you down the line somewhere I would think. Have you sold that Toyota yet...:-)))))

CE750

CDI was an MB/Bosch invention..

guitarplayer

Who makes your car, its' beautiful? Well thank you it's a Mercedes-Benz.

Then turns to Krispy and RJM.

Who makes your car? Uhh, it's made by Toyota. Don't they make the Turcell too? (looks down toward ground in shame) uhhh, yes.

CE750

While I don't necessarily agree with it, a lot of people think exactly that way.. a lot! Even in the SF Bay Area where there are A LOT of Asian Americans (many of Japanese ancestry) driving Mercedes Benz, it's their car of choice. As a kid, growing up there, I used to want to be Asian, cause every-time I looked at an MB and admired it, it was being driven by a Chinese, or Japanese person.. they have good taste, what can I say?

CE750

you too Joe! Come on back after the Holiday and let' us you again!

CE750

excuse me? The man can design an engine? can you? I'm impressed!

No, you completely did not.. every piece of public data points to the MB V6 being superior...

now tell me more about the Toyota Diesels? Common rail you say? where... I don't see any here? why? The CDI's are flying off the shelf, and selling at a premium in California..
Not saying Toyota doesn't build diesel, but what have they pioneered? The Diesel car? no.. CDI? no..

guitarplayer

Hey, I got a Photobucket account and finally figured out how you guys do this.

CE750

Good for you! We finally get to see it!

Go post it also in the W210 picture thread.. looks good! No wonder you're proud.

Are those stock rims? I've never seen them before.

guitarplayer

Yes, stock. I think they are very sharp.. I saw another 210 same color but with different rims and the car looked so different and not in a good way. Amazing what nice rims do for the whole car. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.

JWS3

One does not see this kind of thread on a Lexus board.......

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/126133-keeping-e-after-warranty.html

I find it both telling and disppointing.
Many here, sometimes even me included, are in denial. The issue is real. Again, MB/BMW would be wise to learn from Detroit's mistakes- They too underestimate the Japanese and, 30 years later, we hear rumblings of GM possibly filing for bankruptcy. 20 years ago even the thought of that would have been a joke. Its not quite so funny now.

mick1

I don't know if you would call it denial if you never experience any problem. For instance, when I bought my last bmw, some of my friends who loved Japanese cars told me I would regret getting it because bmw were not as reliable as the Japanese cars. I drove it for 75k miles and traded in for the C320. Nothing ever happened to me, so the warnings from my friends were false.

Kev04C320

The W203 that I had for 2 years was working very well for me. No major issues and most of the problems were fixed within 1 day.

So far, I'm pretty happy with my W211, except for the occasional brake squeal

JWS3

my have been and still is relatively trouble free, the odds remain in the Japanese' favor. Not my opinion-just a reflection of a multitude of sources. And, again,-- one doesn't see "Will anyone here be keeping theircar beyond the warranty" threads on Lexus boards as we do here.

RJC

What would have been the response if Consumer Reports said MB was great; would we still be bashig the publication and the respective report?

Look, MB quality has slid period, even MB admits that! MB still makes a very nice car however but it just needs to be better, like it used to be (MB admits this too). For most of us that have owned earlier year MB's(pre 90's), the difference in quality and construction is quite noticeable. The newer cars are faster , smoother and offer lots of safety and comfort items that the older MB's lacked however. When the former MB boss Schrempp ordered/demanded it's parts suppliers to deliver cheaper parts to MB it was the beginning of the end for top quality ratings, as it's impossible to build the best, without the best parts or materials. MB has recognized this and is addressing part of the problem. The real issue is if MB was to build any of it's cars using the very best like it used to, the car would be 20-30% more expensive and that did not fit into the corporate marketing plan especially when Lexus came into town in the late 80's offering a great car for many,many thousands less. Here's an example of how MB cheapened it's cars. In 1992 I bought a brand new 300CE, it was a six cylinder two door 4 place coupe and it stickered for $63,000.00, today, 14 years later a new CLK 500 with a V8 vs. a V6 lists for about $55,000.00, how can that be? Well for starters, the newer 3 valve SOHC engines cost MB over 50% less to build than the former 4 valve DOHC engines, then add in a cheaper platform for the CLK, figure in all the other cost cutting and there's your answer. As we all know MB is getting back to building 4 valve DOHC engines now with variable valve timing etc, they are playing catch up to many others...but at least they're changing and now for the better. MB knows quite well it cannot rest on the allure of the three pointed star alone, at least not anymore.

ruykava

absolutely agree with that! hehe, especially the part that we have good taste lol

i was walking down Chinatown in London today, around Leicester Square. man, that place must have the highest concentration of Mercs per square foot! at least 60% of parking space was taken up by the three pointed star - mostly restaurant owners who are doing a roaring trade. looks like Asians in general really like Merc. of course, when i was in China last year, i noticed the startling sight of almost every single car being either a black VW or a black Audi.

StapleGun

Nice one guitar..wheels too!!!

krispykrme

So wrong again.

Common rail diesel was develop simulataneously in seperate by volvo, fiat, bosch, and denso in late 1990.

The 1st manufacturer to bring this to the market was Fiat group for use in Alfa Romeo. Not MB.

In addition, Bosch is not part of DCX. So don't mix the two.

krispykrme

I have already responded.

The E350 V6 under old SAE standard is much less efficient than Avalon's 280 HP 3.5 V6 rated under the same old SAE std.

DCX was lucky that E350 went on sale in early 2005 before the new SAE standard went in. Who know what it would have done.

Like i said, show me where E350's V6 develops 280 HP and get better gas mileage. The answer is NO!!!!!!

In addition, forgot to mention that Denso is owned by Toyota. While Bosch although work closely with german manufacturer, IS NOT PART OF DCX NOR BMW AG.

The fact of matter is that at end on 1990. Common rail diesel was being developed by likes of Denso, Volvo, Fiat, Bosch... And it was not pioneered on passenger car by MB. It's alfa romeo.

Again, you and the other guys knows nothing about automotive history nor recent development.

The man can design an engine??? says who? you??

I was involved in automotive industry in the 90's both at school and as intern at one of the big three. So don't tell me BS.

CE750

Where do you get your facts dude ???

source: http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publi...inter_272.html

I mean, do you just make stuff up??

Bosch engineers work hand-in-hand with MB on just about every major automotive technology.. I can list them all if you want.

Here we go... but first 25 years ago.. the airbag was first in an MB..
Airbags

now read this and weep..


Chronology:
Milestones in Passive Safety at Mercedes-Benz

1939
The first prototype of a passenger car with sturdy side protection, extremely rigid floor component
group and three-part steering column is created.

1947
The prototype “Terra Cruiser” developed by Mercedes engineer Béla Barényi is the first
automobile with safety steering.

1949
The newly developed, patented safety-cone lock prevents the doors from popping open in case of
an accident.

1951
Mercedes-Benz applies for a patent for the first safety body with rigid passenger compartment
and defined crumple zones in the world. It goes into series production in 1959.

1952
Mercedes engineer Béla Barényi receives the patent for the first safety body with crumple zone.

1957
Mercedes-Benz offers lap belts for the front seats of its passenger cars as an option for the first
time.

1958
A patent for the cone door lock with two safety catches developed by Mercedes-Benz is applied
for.

1959
The Mercedes Models 220, 220S and 220SE are the first series production cars with safety body
and interior without sharp edges. The first crash tests take place in the Mercedes plant
Sindelfingen.

1961
Diagonal shoulder harnesses in place of the previous lap belts are offered as optional equipment
for Mercedes. All Mercedes passenger cars are equipped with anchoring points for safety belts as
standard equipment.

1963
The Mercedes-Benz 230SL is the first sports car with safety body.

1967
The safety steering with telescoping steering column and impact absorbing steering wheel is
standard equipment of all Mercedes models. The development of the airbag is started.

1968
Introduction of the safety head rests developed by Mercedes-Benz. Three point static safety belts
are available as an option for the first time.

1969
Founding of Mercedes accident research and start of belt tensioner development.

1971
The new roadster 350SL is presented with numerous safety relevant innovations: The belt lock is
mounted to the seat frame for the first time, the tank is in front of the rear axle for collision
protection, and the four spoke safety steering wheel with large surface impact plate offers the
best possible protection. Three point automatic seat belts are offered as an option. Mercedes
engineers apply for an airbag patent.

On the occasion of the ESV (Enhanced Safety Vehicle) conference in Sindelfingen, Mercedes-
Benz introduces test vehicles with three point automatic seat belts, belt tensioners, belt force
limiters and airbags for driver and front passenger.

1973
Three point automatic seat belts and head rests for driver and front passenger are part of
standard equipment of all Mercedes passenger cars. For the first time, child restraint systems are
offered as an option.

1974
The first offset crash tests take place in Sindelfingen.

1976
The safety steering with corrugated pipe goes into series production for the first time worldwide.

1978
The realistic offset crash test with 40% front coverage is established as internal test method.

1979
Mercedes passenger cars receive seat belts at all outboard seats as standard equipment. The S-
Class is the first automobile in the world that, thanks to a forked front member structure, is
specifically designed for an offset frontal impact. The front seatbelts of the new sedan are height
adjustable.

1980
World premiere of the driver airbag and belt tensioner (on the front passenger side) in the sedans
and coupes of the S-Class.

1984
Mercedes-Benz equips all passenger car models with belt tensioners at the front seats as
standard equipment.

1987
On the IAA, Mercedes-Benz presents a passenger airbag for the first time, which is available in
the S-Class as optional equipment.

1989
Presentation of the new SL roadster with seat integrated belt system and automatic roll bar.

1991
Standard equipment employment of the driver airbag in the S-Class, the SL sports car and the
500E. In addition, the twelve cylinder models are equipped with passenger airbag as standard
equipment.

1992
Starting in October, the driver airbag is standard equipment in all Mercedes passenger cars. The
passenger airbag is available as on option in all model series, standard equipment in the S-Class.
The offset crash against the deformable barrier becomes a standard test in the development of
new Mercedes models.

1993
At the Geneva Automobile Salon, Mercedes-Benz shows the prototype of a side-impact airbag. In
the new C-Class, Mercedes introduces integrated child seats for the rear seat bench for the first
time.

1995
The new E-Class is equipped with integrated belt force limiters at the front seats for the first time.
Side-impact airbags for the front doors are available as optional equipment.

1997
In the new roadster SLK, the ellipsoid front and automatic child seat detection have their
premiere. Side-impact airbags in the front doors and belt force limiters at the front seats are part
of standard equipment in many Mercedes models.

Thanks to the sandwich concept, the compact A-Class offers Mercedes typical passenger safety.
Side-impact airbags, belt tensioners and belt force limiters are part of standard equipment of the
A-Class.

1998
The E-Class is equipped with the newly developed window bag for the first time. The new S-
Class is the first Mercedes model with adaptive passenger airbag, which deploys in two stages,
depending on the severity of the impact.

2000
Mercedes-Benz equips the new C-Class with adaptive airbags on driver and passenger side as
well as window and side-impact airbags as standard equipment.

2001
A newly developed head/thorax side-impact airbag celebrates its world premiere in the SL-Class.

2002
For the new E-Class, Mercedes-Benz develops the so-called upfront sensors and an automatic
weight classification of the front passenger, which allows for control of the restraint systems even
more appropriate for the situation. In addition to adaptive front airbags, two-stage belt force
limiters at the front seats celebrate their premiere in the E-Class. For the first time, belt tensioners
and belt force limiters become standard equipment in the rear.

In the S-Class, the new anticipatory passenger protection system PRE-SAFE celebrates its world
premiere, which represents a synergy of active and passive safety. For the first time, passengers
can thus be preventatively prepared for a possible accident. With PRE-SAFE, a new era in
passenger car safety development at Mercedes-Benz begins.

ACTIVE SAFETY


1933
Premiere of the independent double wishbone front suspension in the Mercedes-Benz 380.

1954
The newly developed single link (McPherson) swing arm axle is employed in series production for
the first time in the Mercedes-Benz 220.

1961
The Mercedes-Benz 300SE is fitted with a dual-circuit hydraulic braking system and disc brakes
at front and rear wheels as standard equipment.

1970
Mercedes-Benz presents the Antilock Braking System (ABS) of the first generation in a test
execution.

1971
The new 350SL is equipped with numerous safety innovations. This includes large surface
indicator lights as well as rear lights and side windows that don’t get dirty as easily – intelligent
detail solutions that make driving safer.

1978
The market introduction of the Antilock Braking System (ABS) of the second generation for the
first time in the world takes place in the S-Class.

1982
Premiere of the multi-link independent rear suspension in the Mercedes-Benz 190.

1986
Premiere of the all-wheel drive system 4MATIC (E-Class) and the automatic locking differential
(ASD).

1987
Traction control (ASR) is offered as optional equipment for the first time.

1989
The electronically controlled level control and the Adaptive Damping System (ADS) are offered as
optional equipment for the first time.

1991
In the research vehicle C112, Mercedes-Benz presents an actively controlled suspension for the
first time. In 1999 it goes into series production as Active Body Control in the CL-Class.

1992
ABS is standard equipment in all Mercedes passenger cars.

1993
Mercedes-Benz develops a new double wishbone front suspension for the C-Class.

1994
Premiere of the electronically controlled take-off and traction aid Electronic Traction Support
(ETS) in the six-cylinder models of the S- and SL-Class. Mercedes-Benz presents the Electronic
Stability Program ESP® for the first time.

1995
In the sedans of the E-Class and in the SL, Mercedes-Benz, as the first automobile manufacturer,
offers Xenon headlights with dynamic illumination width regulation as optional equipment. ESP®
goes into series production in the S600 Coupe.

1996
The Brake Assist is employed in the S-, SL- and CL-Class for the first time in the world; the other
Mercedes models follow in 1997.

1997
In the E-Class, the combination of the electronically controlled all-wheel drive system 4MATIC
with ESP® represents another milestone in the area of driving safety. The new M-Class starts with
the electronically controlled traction system 4ETS.

1998
Mercedes-Benz fits the A-Class with the Electronic Stability Program ESP®, traction control (ASR)
and Brake Assist as standard equipment. In the new S-Class, the air suspension AIRMATIC in
connection with the Adaptive Damping System (ADS II) goes into series production.

1999
The active suspension Active Body Control (ABC) celebrates its world premiere in the CL-Class.
All Mercedes passenger cars are fitted with ESP® as standard equipment.

2001
The SL-Class is the first automobile in the world with the electro-hydraulic brake system SBCTM
(Sensotronic Brake Control).

2002
For the new E-Class, Mercedes-Benz develops the air suspension AIRMATIC DC (Dual Control).
SBCTM is standard equipment of all sedans of the E-Class. The permanent all-wheel drive system
4MATIC is available for the first time in the C- and S-Class. Another new development is the
active curve light, which increases driving safety in the dark. It will be available starting in the
spring of 2003.




Now, where is Toyota's list???

slk55lvr

Quite an impressive list, and the company was founded by the creator of the first car. While common rail diesel may have been invented by the group you described, there is no question that the first and most innovative car company in the world is Mercedes.

Vader55

Nice CE750 ! Now What happened to Krispykrme(owned) ? trying to dig up info to support his b.s. claims I hope you don't own that stock krispy ? Fleas are hopping all over it.