Why are MB vehicles so (too??) expensive? And, no, this is not a "troll" post. (more)
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Oregon's beautiful Willamette valley
2014 Mercedes-Benz E550 4Matic, 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R
I have no information from M-B telling why the transmission starts in second gear. It functions well in my daily driving, and may be part of smoothing the driving experience, as you suggest.
Another poster compared the Mercedes-Benz to several Japanese cars. We have a 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R. It is just as eager on light throttle acceleration from stop as the E550. But, engine RPMs are much higher, the engine more intrusive, though very smooth, and the driver is much more conscious of bits of machinery at work. On more rapid acceleration, particularly at higher speeds, the E550 is much more refined. It is a better car, though still overpriced for the margin of improvement. Surprisingly, the Subaru runs very well at high freeway speeds. We've not run the E550 on much other than local drives, so will have to compare later.
A M-B strength is its degree of customization by the owner. Very nice, after one reads the manual thoroughly.
Another poster compared the Mercedes-Benz to several Japanese cars. We have a 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R. It is just as eager on light throttle acceleration from stop as the E550. But, engine RPMs are much higher, the engine more intrusive, though very smooth, and the driver is much more conscious of bits of machinery at work. On more rapid acceleration, particularly at higher speeds, the E550 is much more refined. It is a better car, though still overpriced for the margin of improvement. Surprisingly, the Subaru runs very well at high freeway speeds. We've not run the E550 on much other than local drives, so will have to compare later.
A M-B strength is its degree of customization by the owner. Very nice, after one reads the manual thoroughly.
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 116
Likes: 1
From: New York City
2003 E500 sport (sold), 2009 GL450, w213 E63 (waiting for ordering guide)
I don't know man, I love my Benzs and always will and to me nothing compares.
Last edited by JP500; Dec 3, 2013 at 08:56 PM.
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 216
Likes: 2
From: Bristol, CT
06 S211 E500 4Matic
Why would you even compare some Sybaru to an E-class? From my experience, Subarus are awful to drive. I've personally driven an Outback and an STI. Outback was scary to drive as it has a considerably big ground clearance. You feel like the car will hydroplane if you change lanes fast at 70+mph. STI was awful too. Yes, acceleration and handling is impressive, but you almost would need to go see a doctor to fix your back as the ride is stiff as hell, which I guess is expected of a car designed to be raced.
Don't get me wrong, I too think that MB are overpriced when new, but as an overall car, it is light years ahead of any Subaru out there.
Don't get me wrong, I too think that MB are overpriced when new, but as an overall car, it is light years ahead of any Subaru out there.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,184
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From: Highlands Ranch, Colorado
2014 BMW M235i
Subaru wagons are good if you want to go on a Sunday cruise in your land boat. The STi is a capable car but still a tin can and most STi drivers at least in Colorado hear engine noise and thing it's a f****** challenge to race.
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Oregon's beautiful Willamette valley
2014 Mercedes-Benz E550 4Matic, 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R
I have not driven the Outback and STI. My comment was based on current ownership of a six cylinder Legacy sedan, which is of normal dimensions and height. It handles well for a moderate-sized family car.
The comparison between cars is, as you suggest, not quite fair, to the Subaru or the Mercedes. They are aimed at different price points. Still, one should expect the Mercedes to at least equal Subaru quality in every important area and I am perplexed that an overhead sunglass holder, shown in my owner's manual, is not provided. I recognize that the owner's manual covers many countries and options, but the sunglass holder was not even available on the American options list.
But, many car buyers are not merely comparing two cars of like price. They are comparing a higher cost car against some combination of a lower cost car and another use of the remaining monetary difference. Perhaps furniture, savings, a child's education, retirement, etc. Thus, an upscale car must still present a compelling reason to spend the added money, even when the money can be made available by the buyer.
The comparison between cars is, as you suggest, not quite fair, to the Subaru or the Mercedes. They are aimed at different price points. Still, one should expect the Mercedes to at least equal Subaru quality in every important area and I am perplexed that an overhead sunglass holder, shown in my owner's manual, is not provided. I recognize that the owner's manual covers many countries and options, but the sunglass holder was not even available on the American options list.
But, many car buyers are not merely comparing two cars of like price. They are comparing a higher cost car against some combination of a lower cost car and another use of the remaining monetary difference. Perhaps furniture, savings, a child's education, retirement, etc. Thus, an upscale car must still present a compelling reason to spend the added money, even when the money can be made available by the buyer.
Why would you even compare some Sybaru to an E-class? From my experience, Subarus are awful to drive. I've personally driven an Outback and an STI. Outback was scary to drive as it has a considerably big ground clearance. You feel like the car will hydroplane if you change lanes fast at 70+mph. STI was awful too. Yes, acceleration and handling is impressive, but you almost would need to go see a doctor to fix your back as the ride is stiff as hell, which I guess is expected of a car designed to be raced.
Don't get me wrong, I too think that MB are overpriced when new, but as an overall car, it is light years ahead of any Subaru out there.
Don't get me wrong, I too think that MB are overpriced when new, but as an overall car, it is light years ahead of any Subaru out there.
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 216
Likes: 2
From: Bristol, CT
06 S211 E500 4Matic
The concept of reliability is subjective. Expensive cars require expensive repairs, that's just how it works. MB uses many advanced technologies that improve the quality of the ride as well as safety. The boxer engines that Subaru uses are prone to complete failures. In fact, I can go to my local Subie dealer and walk out with a complete engine. They have them in stock. You don't see many Subarus with 150-200k miles on them. Now, of course there are many factors that determine how long your car will last, but it is my personal opinion that that Subarus are not built for longevity.
Mercedes has been slipping in quality though, largely due to plethora of electronic systems. I remember 90s MBs with 150k miles were considered just broken into. Today, MB themselves count a 155k mile MB car as "high mileage".
I've never personally owned a Subaru, so I guess I am biased. All of my cars were German. There are people that love Subarus and that's great. Personally, if you buy a new German car, you are making one of the worst financial decisions in your life (that is if you care about money). My 2006 was more than $70k new. Today, I'll be lucky to get $10k for it. That's where Subaru beats MB or any other German/European car out there.
Mercedes has been slipping in quality though, largely due to plethora of electronic systems. I remember 90s MBs with 150k miles were considered just broken into. Today, MB themselves count a 155k mile MB car as "high mileage".
I've never personally owned a Subaru, so I guess I am biased. All of my cars were German. There are people that love Subarus and that's great. Personally, if you buy a new German car, you are making one of the worst financial decisions in your life (that is if you care about money). My 2006 was more than $70k new. Today, I'll be lucky to get $10k for it. That's where Subaru beats MB or any other German/European car out there.
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Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Oregon's beautiful Willamette valley
2014 Mercedes-Benz E550 4Matic, 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R
There is some subjectivity in car reliability concepts, but much data is collected each year and JD Powers, etc, are reasonably disinterested. I wouldn't think that Subaru boxer engines are prone to complete failures, though some owners can destroy almost any engine. The reliability seems good to excellent and I can provide further data. I do wonder how the newer crop of highly turbocharged one and two liter engines from all makers will fare beyond the 100,000 mile mark given the indifferent maintenance practices of some drivers.
Electronic systems certainly have been a challenge. Ford, currently, is struggling greatly with the issue. Mercedes-Benz on the other hand has made significant strides and its recent cars have improved quality, in my view. I would not have bought the car otherwise.
You are right about buying a Mercedes not being a good financial decision. It is hard to beat a low cost used economy car for money for the dollar. It is possible to donate used cars to a favored charity and get a tax write-off.
Electronic systems certainly have been a challenge. Ford, currently, is struggling greatly with the issue. Mercedes-Benz on the other hand has made significant strides and its recent cars have improved quality, in my view. I would not have bought the car otherwise.
You are right about buying a Mercedes not being a good financial decision. It is hard to beat a low cost used economy car for money for the dollar. It is possible to donate used cars to a favored charity and get a tax write-off.
The concept of reliability is subjective. Expensive cars require expensive repairs, that's just how it works. MB uses many advanced technologies that improve the quality of the ride as well as safety. The boxer engines that Subaru uses are prone to complete failures. In fact, I can go to my local Subie dealer and walk out with a complete engine. They have them in stock. You don't see many Subarus with 150-200k miles on them. Now, of course there are many factors that determine how long your car will last, but it is my personal opinion that that Subarus are not built for longevity.
Mercedes has been slipping in quality though, largely due to plethora of electronic systems. I remember 90s MBs with 150k miles were considered just broken into. Today, MB themselves count a 155k mile MB car as "high mileage".
I've never personally owned a Subaru, so I guess I am biased. All of my cars were German. There are people that love Subarus and that's great. Personally, if you buy a new German car, you are making one of the worst financial decisions in your life (that is if you care about money). My 2006 was more than $70k new. Today, I'll be lucky to get $10k for it. That's where Subaru beats MB or any other German/European car out there.
Mercedes has been slipping in quality though, largely due to plethora of electronic systems. I remember 90s MBs with 150k miles were considered just broken into. Today, MB themselves count a 155k mile MB car as "high mileage".
I've never personally owned a Subaru, so I guess I am biased. All of my cars were German. There are people that love Subarus and that's great. Personally, if you buy a new German car, you are making one of the worst financial decisions in your life (that is if you care about money). My 2006 was more than $70k new. Today, I'll be lucky to get $10k for it. That's where Subaru beats MB or any other German/European car out there.
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 216
Likes: 2
From: Bristol, CT
06 S211 E500 4Matic
Indeed, I was talking about the 2.5 turbo'ed 4-cylinder for both the Outback and the STI. The outback ingested the screw that holds the turbo blades and needed a new one. The STI suffered a cracked cylinder wall due to god knows what. But then again it was modified.
I don't really find those website and 3rd party reliability data publishers being very acurate. First, majority of people that report problems, have no idea what they are reporting as "engine problems" or "transmission failures". Second, who cares that your car broke during the first 50k miles? Chances are you bought it new and have all of the repairs fixed by the dealer under warranty. There are very little sources that document actual reliability of cars after the warranty period runs out. Parts on new cars can be defective and all the quirks take time to get resolved.
I think that because of the whole "green movement" we will start to see more and more small displacement forced induction engines and they will not outlast good old V8s. I'd like to see how the cop cars' new FWD turbo'ed V6 Fords will hold up compared to the RWD V8 Crown Vics.
I don't really find those website and 3rd party reliability data publishers being very acurate. First, majority of people that report problems, have no idea what they are reporting as "engine problems" or "transmission failures". Second, who cares that your car broke during the first 50k miles? Chances are you bought it new and have all of the repairs fixed by the dealer under warranty. There are very little sources that document actual reliability of cars after the warranty period runs out. Parts on new cars can be defective and all the quirks take time to get resolved.
I think that because of the whole "green movement" we will start to see more and more small displacement forced induction engines and they will not outlast good old V8s. I'd like to see how the cop cars' new FWD turbo'ed V6 Fords will hold up compared to the RWD V8 Crown Vics.
Last edited by 06E5004ME; Dec 4, 2013 at 04:11 PM.
