W211 Transmisson / torque problems
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W211 Transmisson / torque problems
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I drive a late 2002 registered (uk) E270cdi with auto tiptronic (one of the very first w211) with less than 30,000 miles, recently I started to have problems with the speed as the car slips as I try pull away, then jolts very badly as if the handbrakes were on and it does not want to move. sometimes when I take my foot off the acceleration and try to pull away again it jolts agains and then responds but when I try to move faster same problem again. I took it to the garage and after various test they said it a transmission problem. They said that the gear oil coolant (located within the radiator) had taken in water.AS a result the water has got into the gear box and oil has got into the torque converter. so they all have to be replaced. gear box,torque converter, radiator, reflushing of transmission after replacement.
big unbeliveable bill at the moment
I heard from unconfirmed sources that mercedes placing the problem prone gear oil coolant in the radiator is design flaw waiting to cause major problems as in this case where a faulty / licking gear oil coolant seems to have caused major problems by drawing water into gear box. How this could also have caused oil to be draw into the torque convertor, I don't know. please educate me
I drive a late 2002 registered (uk) E270cdi with auto tiptronic (one of the very first w211) with less than 30,000 miles, recently I started to have problems with the speed as the car slips as I try pull away, then jolts very badly as if the handbrakes were on and it does not want to move. sometimes when I take my foot off the acceleration and try to pull away again it jolts agains and then responds but when I try to move faster same problem again. I took it to the garage and after various test they said it a transmission problem. They said that the gear oil coolant (located within the radiator) had taken in water.AS a result the water has got into the gear box and oil has got into the torque converter. so they all have to be replaced. gear box,torque converter, radiator, reflushing of transmission after replacement.
big unbeliveable bill at the moment
I heard from unconfirmed sources that mercedes placing the problem prone gear oil coolant in the radiator is design flaw waiting to cause major problems as in this case where a faulty / licking gear oil coolant seems to have caused major problems by drawing water into gear box. How this could also have caused oil to be draw into the torque convertor, I don't know. please educate me
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Just had the transmission replaced and radiator replaced on 2003 E500. They said it was caused by design flaw - the radiator coolant had leaked into the transmission and essentially caused irreversible damage. Lucky mine is still in warranty !! Took a week for the radiator to arrive from Germany though.
My complaint was that the transmission was getting rather rough on down shift - for example when slowing down going uphill there was a noticeable thump in the transmission as it was gearing down.
My complaint was that the transmission was getting rather rough on down shift - for example when slowing down going uphill there was a noticeable thump in the transmission as it was gearing down.
Last edited by dpaulyn; Dec 6, 2005 at 08:26 PM.
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From: Virginia
2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
How nasty can a barrister get?
If this happens enough here a class action lawyer will see $$$ and bend MB over without Vaseline.
A jury here would not presume a 2-3 year old $50K-$65K should do this, especially when a Buick can cruise about 20 years and not experience this problem.
For now, I would look for a junkyard or remanufactured transmission complete with torque converter. I would disconnect and plug the internal radiator cooler (but don't buy a new one) and flush the cooling system. Finally, fit an external cooler in front of the radiator and you're good to go. Much better cooling with the divorced cooler, as an added bonus.
BTW, dyn, the trans oil is normally circulated throught the torque converter. The converter builds the most heat, so oil cirulation is the means of cooling. The contaminated oil got into the converter by virtue of all the trans oil becoming contaminated.
A jury here would not presume a 2-3 year old $50K-$65K should do this, especially when a Buick can cruise about 20 years and not experience this problem.
For now, I would look for a junkyard or remanufactured transmission complete with torque converter. I would disconnect and plug the internal radiator cooler (but don't buy a new one) and flush the cooling system. Finally, fit an external cooler in front of the radiator and you're good to go. Much better cooling with the divorced cooler, as an added bonus.
BTW, dyn, the trans oil is normally circulated throught the torque converter. The converter builds the most heat, so oil cirulation is the means of cooling. The contaminated oil got into the converter by virtue of all the trans oil becoming contaminated.
Last edited by cdiken; Dec 8, 2005 at 02:02 PM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by cdiken
If this happens enough here a class action lawyer will see $$$ and bend MB over without Vaseline.
MB should stand by any transmission that fails before 50K IMHO.
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There have been several recurring instances of transmission failures in the W210/W211 transmissions even though many would have you believe these are just isolated, freak failures. If you will do a search on transmissions on this and other MB forums, you will find a large history of transmission failures at low mileage. In my case, the transmission in my E-430 failed at 24,000 miles. Transmission fluid leaked into the Transmission Control Module causing the transmission to lock up and fail. I later found out that this was a very common failure on W210 transmissions and Mercedes failed to do a recall or to even acknowlege the problem...they just quietly repaired them and hoped the problem would go away. My car was just out of warranty and the repair bill was $3000 after waiting for parts from Germany for a couple of weeks. Luckily I had purchased the MB Extended Warranty when it was new. If you plan on keeping your car past the warranty, I highly recommend purchasing the extended warranty. There are NO cheap repairs on Mercedes.
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I am still at at lockhead with MB Uk as I do believe that this problem (for a 27k miles car) is an engineering flur with their design. cdiken thanks for the information, it is much more better than the mb service engineers. Unfortunately my warranty had just expired and the cars was due for a full spot check before they could apply the for warranty extension (to be paid for) I had requested and as you can guess then i had this problem just before the spot check.
MB have refused to accept its a known problem, but have so far agreed to foot 50% of the hugh bill. I have said to them this is not acceptable as the bill will still come to over 3grand at 50% cost but they do not want to increase their contribution. The car has been at their service centre now for 14days and they would still have to order the parts if the work was to go ahead once an agreement is reached which could take forever.
To be honest I have driven a c180 for 8 years now with over 100k on the clock and no such problems or headache and I now think the w211 is a crap / lemon design car and would be glad to get rid of it sooner and be done with MB. I think quality (the reason I use to like MB) has droped really bad. so this would make me another dissatified w211 owner.
MB have refused to accept its a known problem, but have so far agreed to foot 50% of the hugh bill. I have said to them this is not acceptable as the bill will still come to over 3grand at 50% cost but they do not want to increase their contribution. The car has been at their service centre now for 14days and they would still have to order the parts if the work was to go ahead once an agreement is reached which could take forever.
To be honest I have driven a c180 for 8 years now with over 100k on the clock and no such problems or headache and I now think the w211 is a crap / lemon design car and would be glad to get rid of it sooner and be done with MB. I think quality (the reason I use to like MB) has droped really bad. so this would make me another dissatified w211 owner.
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Originally Posted by dyn
... I now think the w211 is a crap / lemon design car and would be glad to get rid of it sooner and be done with MB. I think quality (the reason I use to like MB) has droped really bad. so this would make me another dissatified w211 owner.
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From: Paris
2003 E 500 - Full option
I got this problem in France in winter 2004 one my E500 (one of the very first).
The symptoms were jerking all the time during accelerations and at the end stabalized speed.
They changed firs the torque convertor. It lasts less than one week. Then they changed the gear box radiator which was leaking into the gearbox and torque convertox and the gearbox...
Hopefully, I was convered by an extended guaranty.
This is a well known problem design at Mercedes.
I don't know the Bristish law but in France for such a design problem you would be covered by law under the "hidden conception fault" (vice caché).
The symptoms were jerking all the time during accelerations and at the end stabalized speed.
They changed firs the torque convertor. It lasts less than one week. Then they changed the gear box radiator which was leaking into the gearbox and torque convertox and the gearbox...
Hopefully, I was convered by an extended guaranty.
This is a well known problem design at Mercedes.
I don't know the Bristish law but in France for such a design problem you would be covered by law under the "hidden conception fault" (vice caché).
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From: Paris
2003 E 500 - Full option
One more think: this took one month. I asked Mercedes to take over my car (2,5 year old) and to make me a good deal on a CLS.
No reply: I am now driving a 535D. Much better quality....
No reply: I am now driving a 535D. Much better quality....
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From: HOUSTON, TX
'06 CLS55 P030
Coolant in trans oil
Info on the radiator, trans, torque conv. problem..if not mentioned already, the only vehicles with this flaw have a radiator manufactured by Valeo, if u have a Behr...then u r o.k. Also, A minor leak from the transmission electrical connector can cause all types of shifting problems as well 
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
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If one has the Valeo radiator and has not yet had any problems what can/should they do? Unfortunately I have the lovely French made Valeo in my CLK500 
.
Thanks
.Thanks
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From: HOUSTON, TX
'06 CLS55 P030
Originally Posted by RJC
If one has the Valeo radiator and has not yet had any problems what can/should they do? Unfortunately I have the lovely French made Valeo in my CLK500 .
Thanks
.Thanks
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
Originally Posted by 516mbtek
Well, u can wait it out and see what happens...depends how much warrenty u have left...or if it was mine..help it along a little if u know what I mean...
. Thanks!
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From: HOUSTON, TX
'06 CLS55 P030
Originally Posted by RJC
Ha ha...thanks. Fortunately I have till 8/07 on the warranty. Has MB been seeing a fair amount of Valeo radiator failures accross the full model line? I hear the defect effects all models from early 2003 production -2004, is that correct? I've got to imagine that the problem as described is taking quite a bit of time to manifest and once the leak begins it's too late to address. I just hate to think that my transmission could be slowly getting poisoned every time I drive the car .
Thanks!
. Thanks!
I think this problem affects 203's and 211's only...and certain VIN ranges...but I will double check the exact models and years on Monday. Usually the problem is first noticed by the client as a "buzzing" or "droaning"noise....under the car, during HARD acceleration. Not really causing shift problems at this point. Some people dont notice this. But at that time, if they do complain about it...or if we notice it on a road test..we have to take a sample of the atf and do a glycol test (on the atf) to determine the contamination ratio. Low contamination rate: just put a new rad. and torq converter, flush cooling syst and trans. If high contamination rate, we do the works. Trans, converter, rad, flushes, sometimes replace even the coolant reservoir...yes, if bad enough, atf will be in the coolant bottle. And at that point we pretty much bypass the glycol testing. But other times the client may notice a low coolant level....frequently. So be aware of any of these symptoms
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
Originally Posted by 516mbtek
t
I think this problem affects 203's and 211's only...and certain VIN ranges...but I will double check the exact models and years on Monday. Usually the problem is first noticed by the client as a "buzzing" or "droaning"noise....under the car, during HARD acceleration. Not really causing shift problems at this point. Some people dont notice this. But at that time, if they do complain about it...or if we notice it on a road test..we have to take a sample of the atf and do a glycol test (on the atf) to determine the contamination ratio. Low contamination rate: just put a new rad. and torq converter, flush cooling syst and trans. If high contamination rate, we do the works. Trans, converter, rad, flushes, sometimes replace even the coolant reservoir...yes, if bad enough, atf will be in the coolant bottle. And at that point we pretty much bypass the glycol testing. But other times the client may notice a low coolant level....frequently. So be aware of any of these symptoms
I think this problem affects 203's and 211's only...and certain VIN ranges...but I will double check the exact models and years on Monday. Usually the problem is first noticed by the client as a "buzzing" or "droaning"noise....under the car, during HARD acceleration. Not really causing shift problems at this point. Some people dont notice this. But at that time, if they do complain about it...or if we notice it on a road test..we have to take a sample of the atf and do a glycol test (on the atf) to determine the contamination ratio. Low contamination rate: just put a new rad. and torq converter, flush cooling syst and trans. If high contamination rate, we do the works. Trans, converter, rad, flushes, sometimes replace even the coolant reservoir...yes, if bad enough, atf will be in the coolant bottle. And at that point we pretty much bypass the glycol testing. But other times the client may notice a low coolant level....frequently. So be aware of any of these symptoms
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From: Longmont, CO
04 E320 4 Matic, 95 Audi S6, 99 Carrera 4 Cabrio, 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 00 BMW R1200C 10, BMW R1200R
Good information about the Valeo radiators. I will check, but I think that the 4-Matic has the good old Behr radiator. I know that if you really want to ruin an automatic transmission all you need to do is put radiator fluid in it.
Radiator fluid will make the friction layer on the transmission bands wear off completely. That is what is causing the problem that all these people are reporting when the transmission shifts. The amazing thing is that the MB transmission is engaging enough to still work once you restart the car! Most other transmissions will just leave you stranded.
Unfortunately, this problem has nothing to do with the automatic transmission that is actually a great design that is meant to last a very long time. The problem that the W211's were having was totally different and was caused by the extended life ATF. The complete valve body on that transmission was open and all the ATF flowed on top of the relays that shifted the gears. When the fluid got too dirty the relays would fail. The repair was to replace the computer in the fuse box above and to change the valve body that has a cover that shielded the relays from the fluid. Even though this repair was costly, nothing mechanical was wrong with the transmission. That part was always fine.
In spite of these embarrassing problems with these Mercedes transmissions, MB transmissions are some of the best in the world!
Steve
Radiator fluid will make the friction layer on the transmission bands wear off completely. That is what is causing the problem that all these people are reporting when the transmission shifts. The amazing thing is that the MB transmission is engaging enough to still work once you restart the car! Most other transmissions will just leave you stranded.
Unfortunately, this problem has nothing to do with the automatic transmission that is actually a great design that is meant to last a very long time. The problem that the W211's were having was totally different and was caused by the extended life ATF. The complete valve body on that transmission was open and all the ATF flowed on top of the relays that shifted the gears. When the fluid got too dirty the relays would fail. The repair was to replace the computer in the fuse box above and to change the valve body that has a cover that shielded the relays from the fluid. Even though this repair was costly, nothing mechanical was wrong with the transmission. That part was always fine.
In spite of these embarrassing problems with these Mercedes transmissions, MB transmissions are some of the best in the world!
Steve
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From: Paris
2003 E 500 - Full option
Originally Posted by 516mbtek
Info on the radiator, trans, torque conv. problem..if not mentioned already, the only vehicles with this flaw have a radiator manufactured by Valeo, if u have a Behr...then u r o.k. Also, A minor leak from the transmission electrical connector can cause all types of shifting problems as well
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From: HOUSTON, TX
'06 CLS55 P030
Sorry RJC, didnt go to work today, will get that info on tues...
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
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Originally Posted by 516mbtek
Sorry RJC, didnt go to work today, will get that info on tues...
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
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From: Paris
2003 E 500 - Full option
Originally Posted by 516mbtek
How do you know for sure?
Regarding Valeo: I made a carefull exam about where were coming the different visible components: evry thing was made in Germany (maybe made in China but at least it was written on).
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From: Chicago, IL
03 E320 & 02 CLK320
Originally Posted by 516mbtek
Sorry RJC, didnt go to work today, will get that info on tues...
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
p.s. FJPM, the info I give is from a service info document from MB. According to them the only radiatiors that fail (without cause) are manufactured by Valeo.
So I'm interested to see the service info...
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From: HOUSTON, TX
'06 CLS55 P030
Originally Posted by FJPM
If I remember well (I sold the car nearly one year ago) there was a Behr sticker somewhere on the radiator but to be precise, this unit is made of several cooling "layers": only the one at the engine side was replaced.
Regarding Valeo: I made a carefull exam about where were coming the different visible components: evry thing was made in Germany (maybe made in China but at least it was written on).
Regarding Valeo: I made a carefull exam about where were coming the different visible components: evry thing was made in Germany (maybe made in China but at least it was written on).
