PUZZ1

I'm thinking of getting rid of my car and getting a wagon or an SUV. We're expecting a baby in August and our other car is an Audi allroad. Would like more capability for family hauling that the e500 provides.

lkchris

Only if can get a diesel!

KosherBenz

next year, the ML comes in Diesel!

DWP

How 'bout the R-Class? You want versatility, you got it with the R-Class. It's also got more style and a lower center of gravity. True, it costs about eight big ones more than the equivalent ML, but once you go over $40K, what's a few thousand dollars one way or another?

lig

Is the new ML still made in Alabama? The 1st gen ones were soooo bad.

I drove the new ML500 @ the launch meeting and it was a whole lot nicer - but if I were to get an SUV right now I'd have to get the SRT Jeep. My old Grand Cherokee was a decent rig (except for the continually warping brake rotors) but this SRT is a rocket!

I think they are just about as fast as a Cayenne Turbo! :devil:

sosh

For max versatility do what I did. One of each! Actually my ML500 W164 has been excellent. Had it since Sept and zero problems.

DWP

The ML and the R-Class are both made in the Heart 'o Dixie state. Perhaps the gentleman doesn't want to put his wife and baby in a 420 hp Jeep Grand Cherokee. I know that I wouldn't want to.

lig

Can't argue with you there. Never had one of those baby things. Being the overprotective sort I would probably want an armored car for transporting my progeny.

Since I don't have an excess of $$$ - I have a hard time justifying the really expensive SUVs. Most folks use them exactly the same way a minivan would be used.

Cars are another matter though.

Miguk_Saram

If/Before you make the move to an ML..

..consider spending some time in the New ML (w164) forum. Familiarize yourself with some of the issues our fellow ML enthusiasts (read as: nit-pickers) have with their rides; and determine whether they're tolerable.

I've driven the new ML and, yes, it is nicer than its predecessor, but.. it's no w211!

GL.

CASL55

There's a big difference between the way a wagon and an SUV handle. My E500 wagon handles essentially like an E500 sedan. It doesn't have the ground clearance of an SUV, but it's not clear from your post that ground clearance is important to you.

I find the wagon an extremely versatile vehicle, but then I've got a 3/4 ton pickup to haul big things. The AWD would remind you of your Audi.

Jim

sosh

What makes you think that the W163 ML's were soooo bad?? Ever own one, bet not! I can tell you from extensive first hand experience that they were nice vehicles with no major but a few minor glitches. I had a 98 and a 02 ML500. Now I own a new 06 W164 ML500. You are spreading inaccurate information.

alewifebp

The new ML is a very big upgrade over the old one. While I never owned either, I have driven considerable miles in the old ML (too many actually), and a good amount in the new one. Much improved, and I will consider it when my lease comes up.

But, it still isn't as nice as the E. The interior lacks a few things the E has, like ambient lighting. And I feel the chrome like pieces in the ML feel inferior to the Appearance Package chrome like pieces in the E. I would say the biggest problem with the new ML is the COMAND, which is an upgraded version of our COMAND (the HK sounds better too), but the directional joystick thing they have is extremely maddening to use.

DWP

Chill. He was probably commenting on reliability, and if so, his comment was appropriate. Whatever the other merits of the early MLs, they have a well-deserved reputation for unreliability. According to Consumer Reports ratings (based on actual owner experience) the '98 to '02 M-Class was much less reliable than average. The '03 was improved and the '04 actually ranked pretty well, indicating that M-B finally got a handle on the ML's quality problems. The early MLs dragged own the reliability ratings of the entire M-B line in North America, though. It's nice that you had a good experience with early MLs, but a lot of people apparently did not.

lig

Thanks. That is exactly what I was referring to. In fairness I have not owned an ML but my old boss had one and two of my clients had them as well.

My boss dumped his and was talking about joining some kind of class action suit against M-B. My clients both said that they thought that this was the worst vehicle they have ever owned.

sosh - I'm happy for you that your experience has been good. Statistically I believe the ML has been the least reliable M-B in history.

vraa

You know you want one!

lig

I have to say - the X5 is a pretty impressive ride. Drives like a sports sedan.

I liked the X5 better the Cayenne S. The X5 felt a lot lighter on it's feet.

vraa

Cayenne Turbo is a wicked car, but I could get two X5 4.4i's for one CayenneT

lig

^^^ I'd get the SRT8 + a Cayman S or used 911 for Cayenne Turbo $$$. The Cayenne S (even w/ the 4.5L V8) felt kind of ponderous.

vraa

http://www.rsportscars.com
BMW X5 4.8is = Weight lb (kg): 5016 (2277)
Porsche CayenneS = Weight lb (kg): 5192 (2357)

I bet the 4.4i is the same weight, I'm too lazy to check my doorjamb.

lig

yowza! I knew the Cayenne/Touregs were 2.5 tons but I didn't realize the X5 weighed roughly the same. The BMW *felt* a lot lighter.

Calcio

How about the new Audi Q7 4.2? Or the R - Edmunds is showing $5000 in marketing support and low APR financing for the R for February which puts it at about the price it should have been from the get go.

jschade

Sorry sosh, unfortunately, I owned a '98 ML320 and I can tell you that it was the most dissapointing vehicle I ever owned. I often wondered how Mercedes could even feel good about having their name on it. Owning five Mercedes to this point in my life, I can tell you that most of what I look for in a Mercedes was missing in that vehicle (reliability, fit & finish, luxurious appointments, overall feeling of quality).

I can tell you that my dealer recently gave me an '06 ML for a loaner and I was pleasantly surprised to see just how much they improved on my introductory '98 model. But getting back to the initial question in this thread, I wouldn't consider replacing my E with an ML, but I'd have no problem (having just driven one for a few days) replacing my Escalade with an ML (even though the ML is smaller). I would like to see the new GL firsthand before I made a final decision though.

sosh

I too owned a 98 ML and drove it 60K till I traded it on an 02 in Aug of 01. The guy that purchased the car from the dealer still has it and I see it around a lot. Last time I spoke with him he had 225000 miles on it and was getting ready to take it to Alaska and back. He loves it and has had no problems and still dealer services it. He uses it in his business and it goes to NY and back 5 days a week plus lots of other trips. Thats pretty good for a vehicle that you claim is extremely un reliable.I bought my first new MB in 1974 and have had many since then, lots more than 5. I in fact have had 5 since 1998. No, they are not perfect and they are expensive to maintain in comparison to say an Explorer or a GM car but no one ever told me they were perfect nor were they inexpensive to maintain.

jschade

sosh-

Glad to hear you had a positive experience with your '98 ML. Summarizing what "lig" mentioned earlier in this thread, the statistics were definitely against you. While you quoted my previous comment entirely in your last reply, I'm not sure you read it. I never said that I claimed it was "extremely un reliable" [sic]. I said that it lacked most of what I was expecting from a Mercedes, including reliability (after all, it left me broke-down and inoperable more than any other vehicle I've owned, Mercedes or not). I also never mentioned that the maintenance was expensive, in fact, I never even mentioned maintenance, so I'm not sure where you got that from. And by the way, of the items that I listed as an expectation for a Mercedes, "perfection" was never one of them either...hmmm.

I'm so impressed that you have owned "lots more than 5" Mercedes in your life. In fact, you bought your first Mercedes in 1974, when I was five years old.

Anyway, no changing my mind, my '98 ML was junk, and the happiest day of my life was the day I got rid of it.

jangy

PUZZ!: I posted thoughts in your other thread.

Lig: I am a Benz / Jeep man all the way through. Had the WJ and loved it. I take them offroad and all that. Do not get me wrong, but I have a HUGE hate for the Jeep SRT-8. It is a stricktly road car made out of offroad car parts. As I have stated before (in the Jeep forums), the Jeep SRT-8 loses in all categories. It is too sloppy on the road, and can't go off. Where does it excel for that kind of $$?

Miguk_Saram: While I agree with your point about the ML vs E, watch your mouth about the "nit-pickers" comment. I am not threatening you and I am not getting into a flame war with you, but understand that some of us have spent $60K on a car that has some real issues and crap like yours is exactly what MB is spewing. I am in the process of ramming that type of pompus attitude down MBUSA's throat, please do not get involved. I understand that you probably meant nothing by it, but just watch what you say about other people's integrity.

ricky: You BMW *****. I love the 4.8is but that body and interior is old and about to get changed, so I feel used spending $75K on it. I came realllly close, though as I am also a BMW Biaaatch. Why are they continually (of late) a year or 2 behind EVERY model change?

sosh: GIVE IT UP. Even I liked to drive the old MLs, but they were piece of junk compared to the "regular" Benzos. A truck frame for god's sakes. Way to show your age with the clever stabs at jschade. I'm only on my 8th Benz since 1986, but I will bet my ***** that each and every one of them was nicer than yours at EVERY step of the way... so there. Why does it matter how many you've had and since when? jschade nailed the benefits of a Benz in his post, so obviously he gets it.