louiscg

I have a 2005 E500 with 8,000 miles. I bought the car because of displeasure with BMW's new styling and i-drive. I actually love the car, but it is unsafe to drive. When new, there were two airmatic suspension failures, one airbag problem (steering ring failure), and one seatbelt sensor failure (not yet corrected). My wife calls the car our "hunk of junk." But I can live with that stuff. At about 7,500 miles, I experienced a SBC shutdown--bells ring, red warning flashes, and almost no braking power. I was on the Forida turnpike at the time and ended up 10 feet beyond the upcoming toll booth. The ticket taker probably thought I was drunk. The good news is that if you survive the brake failure the system resets on restart. The local dealership did some testing and returned the car. A few days later it happened again. The dealership replaced the SBC unit. I picked up the car on Friday and the next day the brakes failed twice. My wife is terrified of the car and I don't blame her. I drive like a 95-year old because I fear another failure.

I will bring the car back to the dealer tomorrow (Monday). They have been accomodating and provided loaners. But, I have totally lost confidence in the car. I am familiar with the Florida Lemon Law, but this is not some nagging problem that annoys--the car is a disaster waiting to happen.

I would appreciate some advice from others that have experienced this problem on how to proceed from here. Thanks!

Scambo

My braking went down also, and I was told after repair it was a result of the battery control module failure. As you described, my warnings came on also -Brake - Visit Workshop Immediately. I called Tel-aid and the kids on the line told me to just restart the car and drive it to see if the warnings went away in 30 min. Well, they didn't go away and then I completely lost all braking power. I was on the highway in jam packed Friday rush hour traffic and was almost in a serious accident. By the way, my 7G tranny and AC went down at that time also.

Our cars apparently have 2 batteries, one for main systems and one for peripherals. I was told that when the BCM goes out, the power gets diverted and apparently the braking (and some other systems) shuts down. The dealership was super helpful, fixed the BCM, and haven't had a problem since. Lots of people have problems with this type of thing, and I believe many feel their isuses are attributed to SBC brake recall, ground wire. The BCM is a totally different element, but it also causes the brake faiulure when it goes down. Again, I haven't had a probelm since then, but still a bit nervous. The lesson learned is that you need to take the car in on warnings. Do not drive further - get it towed. Do not trust Tel-aid advice on serious matters like braking. When the warnings come on, the car is actually telling us something - unlike the old days of the "idiot light" that would just come on because the light was broken. Unfortunatley, if you're driving when all this happens, you can't really do anything but try to stop and get it towed...

konigstiger

Tom is referring to Service Campaign 2005060008 JAN06 Programming Battery Control Module. Implausible or illogical messages can appear in the instrument cluster (IC) which will result in certain electrical consumers being shut down. This is caused by the battery control unit (BCM Part # A211 540 38 45) erroneously evaluating the battery charge level as good when the actual charge level may be insufficient. Bulletin 211.070 (e500) VIN range: A042945 – A756973; A400339 – A607461. If your VIN is not within this range ask your dealer to check VMI.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/145960-w211-recalls.html

If your dealer insists your vehicle is not included and/or refuses to check into this suggestion (highly unlikely) private mail me: Click on Konigstiger – Contact Info – Private Message.

saffrontiger

Konig,
You are always helping. Very Cool

louiscg

First, thanks to Scambo and Konigstiger for the thoughtful responses. They helped!

This morning I drove (very carefully) to the dealership. I talked to the service manager about the problem, and he assured me that they will do everything possible to correct the problem. I indicated that we were unwilling to drive an unsafe car and that either the problem had to be corrected this time or some remedy was required. I also gave him a copy of Konigstiger's response to my post along with the list of recalls and advisories from this forum. In addition, I called MBUSA about the problem and the young lady said the problem would be referred to the Regional Service Manager. Much to my amazement, my call to MBUSA was "in the system" when I arrived at the dealership. Based on all this I feel better, but remain worried about the outcome.

BudC

If they fix the voltage problems and implement the SBC recalls, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I've tried to stay ahead of the curve on things thanks to Konigstiger and I have no concerns whatsoever.

Thrillhouse

yeah all the campaigns should fix, the little battery in the front of the car under the dust filter is the sbc battery..... what was so wrong with brake boosters and master cylinders?

louiscg

"what was so wrong with brake boosters and master cylinders?"

Thrillhouse:

You have to experience the problem to believe it. The back-up system has only about 1/3 or less stopping power. When the SBC system fails, you must press so hard on the brake pedal that your back is forced into the seat back. Your whole body is tensed up to stop the car, yet it seems like it is coasting to a stop rather than truly stopping. In the four times that it happened, there was no immediate stop required. However, say, you are coming over a hill and a line of cars are stopped a hundred yards ahead for a red light. Then you have problems, even if going only 35-40. The backup system may stop the car in time, but it is going to be close and scare the hell out of you (or at least me).

GearHead

Glad that you are alright. It is REALLY freightening.

When I read your post, it brought back BAD memories. I stopped mine with hard stomping of my brakes AND downshifting my gear. My engine was revving very high but it was needed to help slowdown the car when the SBC failed.

Jakpro1

ruykava

haha, although i must say i don't believe anyone has ever been killed by SBC before - so far.

anyway, the facelifted E no longer has this system - back to the old school - and the better for it apparently. although i never had a problem with my SBC.

louiscg: hope your problem finally goes away this time!

Thrillhouse

I have experienced the problem, and I know it is VERY scary, I dont like the system, never have. The pumps have a service limit to them, anywhere from 70k-100k. drive by wire - ok, clutch by wire - ok, brake by wire.......... whoever developed it needs to be shot....

cdiken

Get rid of it. Also, get a good attorney and have MB pay the attorney fee if your state allows.


If you don't lose that lemon, YOU could be found legally liable when you maim someone, because you are driving a car YOU KNOW has defective brakes.

harperb

What was supposed to be the real benefit of brake by wire anyways? I seem to have forgotten in the years since the W211 came out. The E320 CDI I tested recently had probably the worst brake feel of any car i've driven in recent memory. The Hyundai sonata rental car I have here at a business trip would blow it right out of the water in terms of brake pedal feel, as would my CLK (although the Hyundai seats are awful!). It seems like the brakes either are STOPPING RIGHT NOW, or hardly stopping...very little gray area in between :-/

cmtwhk

I did experienced and successful demanded Mercedes to replace a new one to me. The story was, I bought my brand new first lot E in Sept of 2002. Since then, every month got electronics problems from headlamp burnt out, horns failure, tyres pressure gauage false warning, SRS airbag red light blinking when driving at over 100KM/hour in highway. Until one day morning 8:30am I was driving on highway at 105KM/hour to office with my wife in rush hour. Suddenly, my wife saw red light from car computer saying 'no brake- stop your car". I told my wife this ****ing computer alway gave false warning- forgot it. Until I tried to press deeply for twice, it really empty -no brake force ! My mind at that time was one ine thing - stop pressing oil and manually move the gear to D-3-3-1 carefully from fast lane to side way. Finally, the car got fully stop by pressing the foot brake (hand brake) when it's running at 20KM/hour. I imemdiately called up Mercedes to pick up my car. They all taking this case very seriously - maybe the 1st case. So, their top management from maintenance centre came out to shake hadn with me and hosted me for a drink. Within 2 hours they fixed up and replaced a new SBC unit and pump (plus so many - finally I checked out). But, I refused to take this car as it's devil. So, I wrote a complain letter to Mercedes Germany to ask for a fair replacement for the same spec. So, they agreed to build a new one for me in 6 months time. I asked them to give me a C-Class 320AMG as backup car in that 6-months. The new car now has been 2.5 years and so far so good. One of internal maintenance engineers told me this generation E-Class as well as new S-Class do have variety quality problems which varies from one car to the other. Why ? Because many components are sourced out from other countries that Mercedes failed to monitor their quality consistently.

glojo

It must have been quite scary and I sympathise with you. How did it compare to when a 'normal' car has the engine cut out and looses the hydraulic benefits?

I hope the new system is as good or better than SBC, simply because it is by far the best braking system we have ever used.

Surely it is a fact of life that mechanical\electrical things break. Just look at how many terrible fatal incidents there are with large lorries that have brakes that overheat and simply do not work!! I once lost all the fluid from the power steering (not a Mercedes) and that proved a challenge to drive round our very narrow country lanes

Someone has criticised the 'fly-by-wire' type technology! Unbelieveable, didn't Boeing once say they would never use this? Normal braking systems do not use wire, they use fluid, so there is still no direct connection?

John

A beautiful sunny morning in Torquay

rjm

This certainly has been a reassuring thread! Brake failures, suspension failures, multiple electronic failures, numerous engine malfunctions, endless recalls. Makes me want to run out and buy a new Mercedes-Benz!! When are they going to get their "stuff" in order?

louiscg

How did it compare to when a 'normal' car has the engine cut out and loses the hydraulic benefits?

Its been a long time since that happened to me, but my best recollection is there was more stopping power when the booster goes out on a hydraulic system than there is when the SBC system fails.


I will pick up the car this afternoon. The service advisor states that a recall "just came in" (the bracket/ground wire one) and that this has now been done. We will see!

Will update as needed.

stevenW211

After seeing so many ordeals here now I realize that I am NOT the only one victim of E-class, how could MB make such a lousy car but sell it at such a high price?? So far no victims sued MB for the never-ending quality problems?

LNL

Reading stories like this make me so glad I'm getting a non-SBC equipped 2007!!

Lou

vettdvr

Not an attorney but:.

If you know about the problem and then never took it in you "might" be liable the same as if your brake pads were worn out but did not change them.

However if you took the car to Mercedes, and they "repaired" even if the problem occures later. You will have taken "reasonable and normal care" to prevent the problem. The liability would then shift to Mercedes.

My reco, keep all documents showing your records for repair. I also have the E 500 and really the wire braking system. It however is my wife's car and she has adapted to it and likes the braking system. However she has never had a failure and I hope never.

So I would not worry about liability provided you have taken "reasonable and normal care" to prevent the problem. Which I think you have. Just my non-legal $.02 worth. Jim

louiscg

Here's the conclusion. The brakes failed yet again within two days of the third "fix." I drove the car to the dealership (in failure mode) and told them I would not drive it again. After some discussion, they offered to replace it at no cost with a comparable 2006. I said that I wanted out of the SBC system and would contribute to the remedy to get a 2007. On July 31, they got $4,000 of my cash and I picked up a 2007 E550. I am satisfied with the deal financially and delighted with the new car.

P.S. The dealership told me that the regional mechanic (or whatever) came to the dealership and "fixed" my old car. I have no idea what they are going to do with it, but I can guess.

cyclerider

Congratulations on your new E550! I am glad you were able to leave your SBC worries behind, and $4000 to trade up 2 model years is fabulous. I always thought the brake feel in my '05 was odd, but I never went through the problems that plagued you. The steering also felt strange, with occasional heaviness in the middle of slow speed turns. I am hoping that is gone in the new cars. How does the extra 80 hp feel?

louiscg

Brake feel is back to normal, although I never minded the SBC "spongy" feel. The steering does feel a little quicker, although it is still too "light" for me. There is certainly no heaviness to it. I have less than 75 miles on the car so have not yet attempted to harness the "extra 80 hp." Also, the transmission seems smoother, although I don't think anything was changed. I have a few miles of driving at about 20 mph to get to work, and the 2005 seemed unable to decide what gear to be in. Also, braking to a stop was occasionally accompanied by harsh downshifts. None of that in the 07 so far. Finally, no bugs to date and none on the horizon (I hope).

cyclerider

Thanks for the reply, louiscg. It's good to hear your favorable report. I am anxious to get my hands on my '07, but M-B is sending most of the first E550s to the East Coast. I hope you will continue to post your opinions of the new car.