gotoschoolhere

Please Help Me...

I have driven BMW's all of my life ... Okay I'm 25 but you get the picture...

My current lease is up in a few weeks so I went to my local BMW dealer, where between family and close friends we have gotten at least 15 cars and have always dealt with the same sales person, manager and finance guy.

I wanted a new 535i, only to find out they would give me a mere $1,500 off of MSRP.

I feel that because I am a "loyal" customer, they should at most offer the car at $1000 over invoice, especially since the money factor is rediculous.

Now I am thinking about crossing over to the civilezed side. I have always admired MB's. But I am a BMW driver. I know you have seen us around. We're the ones who cut you off , slam on our brakes , tailgate you , make illegal passes , park in the handy cap spaces , drive from red light to red light like a race car driver and etc.

I went to a local MB dealer, where I found a family friend who works as a sales agent. He is offering a white E350 with MBTex, Sport package MSRP of $55,615 for $47,0XX with a money factor of .0020!!!

So here are my questions...
1. Since I am leasing, is this a good deal?
2. I know the money factor is high, shouldn't it be around... .0017?
3. Is the W211 (E-Class) getting re-designed for 2009 and going to be out next Summer/ Spring?
4. If in fact it is re-designed, am I going to hate life? The new S class makes the old one look so undesirable.

Thank you all in advance for your advice and looking forward to hearing from you all. I am looking forward to my MB driving experience.

BudC

I assume you are talking about the 2007 model year since the 2008's are sitting at the ports waiting to be released to dealers.

You should expect to get a 2007 at Invoice or less. That's the place to start, just ask to see the Invoice.

The next E-Class (W212) will be a 2010 model due in 2009. Since you should wait until the W212's problems have had a chance to sort themselves out and since you will get a better deal if you wait a while, you should consider it to be about 3 years before you'll want to buy one.

As for BMW vs. Mercedes, the current E-Class is considered to be a really fine car. In 2007 they did a bit of tweaking and now you have a polished, mature design that should be really satisfying. I am one of the people here who have ordered an '08 and we expect to be getting our cars in 2-3 weeks.

AMGTTV8

where are you located? get the e, its a phenomenal machine. what do you have to lose, even if the 212 looks astonishingly better, you will be in the 07 e for a 2 yr 3 mo term....by the time the 212 e has been release and become more readily available, you will be able to get in the new one right away - i dont see what the dilema is???

gl996tt

I've been driven BMW for 15 year and finally to switch to MB 2 weeks ago. I've bad experience with my sister the old C230 class. Since than no MB for me.

If you test drive the E550 you'll like it. Interior is way better than the 5 series cuz I sold my 550I last year (owned for 6 month). The new MB 550
engine is perform much better than the previous 500 engine. (day and night).
Only thing that i really don't like is the handling on my E550. Overall I give
this E550 a 9.8 out of 10.

Give MB and try you'll like it.

jimm

GOTO you seem to be a VERY nice young man. And a good guy for bringing
up that MANY BMW drivers are unimpressive “Hot Dogs!”

Please don’t be offended by this, but, I have NEVER seen BMW as a “sports
car.” Just a plain car with an ugly front end. Never considered buying one.

I suggest that while your youth has caused you to lean toward the “hot dog
image,” you are now crossing into a more prestigious and advanced image.

So - congratulations on your upcoming E-350! Or .. if you must .. an E-550.

jimm

==========

In days - ‘08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps, nose star

gotoschoolhere

I am in Southern California... LA... Where the E-classes is the king in shopping malls and grocery store parking lots. As a matter of fact I wanna say that there are at least 4 just on my street.

But Thank you for your advice, in leasing it for only 27 months. This seems to be a good compromise.

gotoschoolhere

Hello BudC

Thank you for your much needed advice. I am happy to hear (for selfish reasons) that the W212 will not be due in show rooms until 2009.

If you don’t mind answering another question…

I have always founded a little ironic asking a dealer to see their invoice, since I would assume they would never really let me see the real invoice, would they?

Also I have been on “invoice” prices on Edmunds… Do the dealers typically pay more or less than what is published on Edmunds?

gotoschoolhere

Hi Jimm

Your post was delightfully entertaining to read. I find it curious that you think BMW's are ugly. Though I admit their bold new styling has polarized car enthusiast of all ages, however BMW is sticking to their heritage after all. They are the red headed step child of Germany. Not as "mature" as Merc but also not as conforming as Audi.

Yes, Benz's are more prestigious and advanced as you point out and as we have seen with seat belts, ABS breaks, air bags, night vision and etc. but I pose the following question to you...

Have you ever driven a BMW... I mean really driven one. Have you ever felt the low end torque that comes out a BMW.

One other thing to consider Jim, is that there was a time when if one owned a Benz, it actually meant something. But with all the problems Mercedes had with their original E-class, CLK-class, and currently experiencing with their C-class it turned potential buyers like myself off.

Mercedes is claiming (from what I gather), that they are returning to their old image. With the introduction of their new S-class to the upcoming release of their C-class and so on.

But Jim, I digress... As a car enthusiast, you really must go into a BMW dealer just to test one. I am not saying you should buy one. This way at, least you can say I did it and really did not like it.

I recommend the new 535i (it has a twin turbo)!

hiddenvalue

Don't feel shy asking for the invoice price. I always start with the invoice price. Before I go to the dealer, I print out a couple of invoice prices with the options that I want from Edmunds, Yahoo or MSN. As long as the dealer invoice is close to those, I am fine with it and start from there.

For an '07 E class, you should pay no more than invoice. If gas price is a concern, get an E350 with prem II, sport packs. If gas price is not a concern, get an E550 with the same packages that's the best in its class (MB E, BMW 5, Audi A6, and the Lexus GS/LS 460).

hiddenvalue

Well, I did test drove a '08 535i a couple of months ago when it just came out. But sorry that I did not feel the difference between it and my '07 E350 (actually the E class with the sport package feels more sporty). The E class is way better both enterior and interior except electronic and the driver's seat multi functions. But still, it is a nice car in its class second to MB E class to my opinion.

lig

Low end torque? BMW?

BMWs generally tend to run more towards higher revving high hp w/ lower torque.

Think E46 M3... E30 M3 Even the new M5 is more of a hp engine than a torque monster.

M-B owns BMW when it comes to torque.

Dynamically - I generally prefer BMWs.

The new "flame surfaced" styling is horrible though. And M-B and Audi interiors put BMW to shame.

gotoschoolhere

Hello Hidden,

That is very interesting. my family, who are HUGE MERC fans, all test drove the 535i when BMW was promoting it a few months ago and we were all invited.

My 2 uncles (06 CLS 55 and CL 550) and my dad (previous ML owner) all loved the performance.

I am curious did you get to take it out on a track? True the car is poised and almost (notice I said almost) indistinguishable when you are driving it around town, ie test a drive.

But it is night and day once you put it in sport mode and drive it. I will concede as I have before the E350 is far superior in looks both interior and exterior. However the very first time I drove it I distinctly remember that all of the blood from my head rushed to my head and feet... The kind of feeling you get from a roller coaster.

I kid you not when I say for a split second I black out (because of the adrenaline) and tears came to my eyes.

gotoschoolhere

[QUOTE=Dynamically - I generally prefer BMWs.

The new "flame surfaced" styling is horrible though. And M-B and Audi interiors put BMW to shame.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure if you have gotten a chance to read the other post on this thread... I am 25 and have only had the pleasure of owning a 328i and now a 325ci and an X5 for the Mrs. Though between family and friends I have driven the 530i, 525i, M3, 745i for extended months when visiting home for summers.

When I turned 16, I was promised a new car and it took me ONE full year to decide what car to get. At the time the C-class was getting re-designed (to what the current one is) and thus I opted for the 328i. Later after graduate school I opted for a coupe version of my car for a few reasons.

Back when my parents used to buy Merc's it meant something as noted before. They lasted forever and were built like tanks. The current C-Class is a joke and shouldn't even be called German. My wife used to have one before we were married and I think when I sold it, every light on the display cluster was on. In addition, when the W211 first came out and quiet a few years after, I heard nothing but nightmare stories about the E and CLK.

BMW doors, (NOT THE X3 OR THE NEW 3 Series) sound like German doors. You feel it every time you open and close it. Perhaps it is because cars like the C-class and 3-series sedan not built in Germany, they don't posses the same build quality. My 325ci (coupe) has heavy doors and sound amazing when I open and close the doors.

Just personal preference.

However, as I said before, THE W211 outshines the 5 series and the c-class that is due a few weeks will kill the 3 series. So what am I going to end up with??? 528i or E350? E350 of course, hands down.

BudC

A dealer can pay up to 5% less than Invoice and sometimes there is even an additional cash-back to dealer.

First of all, there is something called holdback which is an additional 3% discount. This is to encourage dealers to sell a car quickly. The 3% starts getting reduced the longer a dealer takes to sell a car. A dealer can also get an additional 1% to 2% discount for getting really good feedback surveys from customers. Finally, there is sometimes *trunk money*. That's an inside phrase that covers things like cash back to dealers at the end of a model year. Edmund's will usually show if there is any.

As for the Invoice, when I bought my 2004 E320, the salesman emailed me a copy of the Invoice and told me that's what I'd pay less the trunk money at the time ($1,500).

When I was looking at 2007's, my salesman told me that they would all go for Invoice. When I couldn't find what I wanted, he suggested I order an '08 and told me I'd get that for Invoice as well.

MBUSA may add things to the Invoice. For example, in the SW US MBUSA adds a ridiculous $600 to the Invoice for the cost of their advertising. Of course dealers can also tack on other fees for *paperwork*. My dealer charges an additional $280 but some states like Pennsylvania limit dealers to what they can tack on.

The point is there is no longer any secret to Invoices. Edmund's and many others have it on the Internet. There is even a BMW website that has retail and wholesale prices for both domestic and Euro Delivery.

gotoschoolhere

[QUOTE=When I was looking at 2007's, my salesman told me that they would all go for Invoice. When I couldn't find what I wanted, he suggested I order an '08 and told me I'd get that for Invoice as well.[/QUOTE]

Hello Again...
I am in a bit of a hurry, since my lease is over on July 20th... but I could wait a few weeks if I must. Should I wait and get the '08. I know they haven't changed anything so it will be only for bragging rights.

Or will most of them be already on order. I really would like a white with black interior, P2, sport, and Bluetooth setup.

Also I am afraid that the money factor will change significantly. It is just not that big of a deal to me if I get the 07 if it means that I get a good money factor.

So does the .0020 seem fair... the sales guy tells me that Benz's MF is .0017 but the dealer wants to charge .0019-.0020 to make money.???

By the way thank you for all of you advice again. You are a tremendous help.

BudC

There aren't many 07's left and you probably won't get a great deal on an '08 that a dealer will put in his inventory, at least for a while. If you order a car it could take several weeks to get it.

gotoschoolhere

Thank you for everyone's much anticipated and valued advice...

I will keep all of you updated as soon as pick my E350 up.

Good luck

hiddenvalue

Well, I didn't go on the track but drove on freeway and streets but I think that is what the car made for - everyday driving.

Anyhow, for a 25 year old guy, either the MB E or C with sport package or the BMW 3 serial fit lot better than the 5 serial which I never feel any excitement sitting in one.

Untertürkheim

You should really get the P2 package, since the additions over the P1 are geared almost strictly towards enhancing the driving experience. Also, please don't get Mb-Tex...why drive a taxi?

gotoschoolhere

Hi Unter,

Just came back from the dealer...

Funny you say that I shouldn't get the MBTex. The dealer is falling all over themselves trying to get me into a car that has one. I asked them to locate it with the full leather. They are telling me that there is little to no difference.

I have read some threads, where people are ranting and raving about it. How it is far superior... Do you not agree??

Yes I am getting the P02/ Sport, Bluetooth.

Thank you for your advice.

BudC

M-B Tex is bulletproof stuff and it's pretty close to leather. The major differences are the smell of leather (although older Mercedes had much nicer leather), a slight difference in softness and a difference in how the inside of the doors are trimmed. Leather is tufted and M-B Tex is flat.

My salesman told me that dealers only ordered leather on cars that were loaded so I'm surprised a car with the P2 option doesn't have it. On the other hand, leather is an expensive option and if you have children and/or pets you'd be better off with M-B Tex.

I ordered my car with leather but I wouldn't have let make a difference if I could have found a 2007 in a color we liked.

gotoschoolhere

I agree with BudC

I don't think it is that big of a difference. If I regret it later, than I only will have to deal with it for 27-33 months.

The dealer is at least throwing in the Bluetooth jack... How cool is that.

Wait, did they just sell me the car because of the Bluetooth?

spinsonic

[QUOTE=gotoschoolhere;2298692]Please Help Me...



Now I am thinking about crossing over to the civilezed side. I have always admired MB's. But I am a BMW driver. I know you have seen us around. We're the ones who cut you off , slam on our brakes , tailgate you , make illegal passes , park in the handy cap spaces , drive from red light to red light like a race car driver and etc.

no offense, but you should try that on me, all you'll see is tires smoking in front of you. i live in california as well and i can tell you, no bmw has done the above yet.

by the way, i am an ex bmw driver too. 545i and 850i... nothing to brag about...

jimm

No. And, don’t plan to:

Ugly, the terrible I-Drive and not the car image I want.

And - I drive a Corvette. In NO WAY do I see BMW as a
“Sports” car.

jimm

==========

In days - ‘08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps, nose star

Untertürkheim

Just judge for yourself. Just feel the door inserts, MB tex feels like plastic, your arms stick to it after driving for a while. The seat inserts are leather, so if they ask you to feel the seat for comparison, you're just comparing leather with leather. MB tex on a hot day is fairly disgusting, I've owned cars with MB-tex and leather, and I did support the MB tex for a while. But like I said, the plastic feeling coupled with the So.Cal sun was not a good combination.