SBC Brake Reliability
09-24-2007, 10:48 PM
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2010 E350 4Matic
SBC Brake Reliability
I think that the W211 maybe the best styled sedan ever. However I was reading a post where it sounded like a member had an accident due to his inability to the stop the car. It wasn't clear from the post that it was a brake malfunction but it did raise my concern about the braking system. What is the collective wisdom here relative to the likelyhood of brake failure which could lead to an accident?
09-24-2007, 11:51 PM
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2015 ML 350
I suppose it can happen (and has to some), but given the number of 211's out there in the world VS the number of true failures verified, it is a small number... still, if its your brake failure, that's all that matters to you... and whether or not you walk away from it.
09-24-2007, 11:55 PM
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'13 E550 W4
In my case when I was almost in an accident on the highway, it wasn't the brakes that failed, it was the Battery Control Module which sends power to the brakes.
09-25-2007, 01:23 AM
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Those who have experienced SBC failure, are usually not able to comment how the back-up brake system worked. My guess is that drivers do not realise that the car would still brake but would need much more brake force and drivers do not realise that.
The SBC pump etc. have their life time but if the different recalls have been done, the system should indicate the need for service well in time to avoid a total electrical portion failure while driving.
09-25-2007, 09:26 AM
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'13 E550 W4
Yes, I did receive a "brake" warning. My statement from a previous post - If the BCM device goes out, you will lose significant braking ability and power to most of your electronics including 7G transmission, air condition, power steering, etc... It happend to me while driving on the highway so be very careful to adhere to the "visit workshop" warnings around brakes. When I called tele-aid to ask them about the brake warning I got, they said it could be the alternator causing battery issues, and I should drive the car for 20 minutes and see what happens. When I did that, my brakes (and everything else) went out and I was almost killed on the highway. Luckily, I was able to veer off the road and park. When they say you still have "braking power" when the main goes out..that is a serious understatement. You do not have anything close to normal braking power. I was actually standing on my brakes and just barely gripping at all, I was scared. This was not a reliable backup form of braking - Not even close. Note: After the incident, the dealer replaced the BCM (under warranty at the time) and I have not had any problems with brakes since then.
09-25-2007, 09:37 AM
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Harley-Davidson
Tom, you have more courage than I to continue to drive that car after being almost "killed on the highway" with a brake failure. Do you allow family and friends to ride in it with you? I never had any issues with my 2005 E, other than a strange, non-linear pedal feel, but I'm delighted that my 2007 doesn't have SBC.
09-25-2007, 09:47 AM
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'13 E550 W4
Yeah, but I love my car. Its like my old Camaro back in the day - you know that thing caught fire on the road, and the next day I was hot rodding down the street with 400HP.
I know the incident sounds dramatic, and was certainly very scary, but since they fixed this issue, I have had no problems at all. I'm convinced that its not likely to happen again and I will continue to be confident in my E. Its a great performer overall.
I know the incident sounds dramatic, and was certainly very scary, but since they fixed this issue, I have had no problems at all. I'm convinced that its not likely to happen again and I will continue to be confident in my E. Its a great performer overall.
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09-25-2007, 11:54 AM
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'12 ML350
Had the SBC on both my old '04 SL500 and my parents' '05 E500W4 wagon, and both had recall campaigns on the SBC.
We've thankfully never experience any dramatic failure or fault on the system, but the non-linear brake feel was clear and present and made braking rather clumsy.
Thankfully they returned to a vacuum boosted braking system beginning in '07 so I don't have it on my E63.
We've thankfully never experience any dramatic failure or fault on the system, but the non-linear brake feel was clear and present and made braking rather clumsy.
Thankfully they returned to a vacuum boosted braking system beginning in '07 so I don't have it on my E63.
09-25-2007, 01:27 PM
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E500, CLK, VW Touareg, Audi TT
I have experienced complete brake failure as it relates to the SBC. Apparently this was replaced under recall. this happened during rush hour traffic in Atlanta. I was able to use my emergency brake to come to a complete stop- thank God I was doing less than 45 miles an hour- Can you imagine if I was going at Full speed. I was so paranoid of driving the car even after confirmation that defective parts where replaced.
09-25-2007, 05:08 PM
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I've had the same failure on my 2003 E500. Luckily, it was at night and I had just made a right turn, so I wasn't going that fast. As I began to pick up speed, all of the lights on my instrument cluster came on and the same "Visit Workshop" along with many other lights relating to the braking system, including "Brake Failure" came on. The whole display in the middle of the cluster was red, just like when you open the car door while the shifter is in "D." I then let off the accelerator pedal and tried the brake pedal and it slowed the car down, but there was very minimal feedback and clamping force. I was about to merge on the freeway so luckily this all happened beforehand. I turned around and went straight home, using the parking break to assist the entire way back. The next morning, it went straight to the shop. The strange thing was, when I started the car the next morning, I moved it around in my driveway and the brakes seemed to work fine again.
09-26-2007, 01:06 AM
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09-26-2007, 12:30 PM
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1992 500E, 2006 E500, 2007 GL 450
I think that the W211 maybe the best styled sedan ever. However I was reading a post where it sounded like a member had an accident due to his inability to the stop the car. It wasn't clear from the post that it was a brake malfunction but it did raise my concern about the braking system. What is the collective wisdom here relative to the likelyhood of brake failure which could lead to an accident?
11-19-2007, 05:57 PM
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03 E500 and Corvette
"Visit Workshop" along with many other lights relating to the braking system, including "Brake Failure" came on. The whole display in the middle of the cluster was red, just like when you open the car door while the shifter is in "D." I then let off the accelerator pedal and tried the brake pedal and it slowed the car down, but there was very minimal feedback and clamping force. ........The next morning, it went straight to the shop. The strange thing was, when I started the car the next morning, I moved it around in my driveway and the brakes seemed to work fine again.
. She pulled over and stopped. But then turned the engine off and restarted and drove home with everything normal. But I got into the car started backed up and got all the red failure lights again with 2 malfunctions showing in the maint. window. I parked the car called a tow truck and the car is on the way to the dealer. ALL TECH SERVICE ISSUES and RECALLS are updated on this car. Starting the car to pull it up to the tow truck all systems were normal again but we refuse to drive the car until safety issues are resolved. NTSB complaint will be next up 
. Jim
11-19-2007, 10:33 PM
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11-19-2007, 10:46 PM
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It's being reported today that Mercedes is dropping their Sensotronic
Brake Control (SBC) from some of their models, starting with the E-
Class.
The SBC system has been a chronic thorn in Mercedes' side.
Manufactured by the Robert Bosch Group, the SBC system has led to the
recall of over 2 million Mercedes models (namely the E-Class), and
has played an integral part in the widespread "Mercedes quality
problems" you hear about so often.
So what exactly is the SBC Braking system? I'll try to sum it up in a
nutshell. The SBC braking system uses a microcomputer to monitor the
car and driver actions. In the event it's needed, such as emergency
braking, the system monitors brake pressure, and applies the
appropriate stopping power necessary, even if the driver doesn't
exert enough power.
SBC features a host of other features as well, including distributing
brake force to different wheels during cornering, to ensure greater
stability in the vehicle as well as maximum stopping power; the SBC
system even dries the brake discs if a film of water forms on them.
In other words, the system sounds like a milestone achievement in
braking technology, and it would be, assuming it worked properly.
Unfortunately, although the intent was good, the execution was not.
As you can probably tell, the entire system relied on electronics,
and as I'm sure everyone can attest to, nothing is more prone to
malfunctioning than electronics. And that is exactly what happened.
Before long, wiring in the SBC braking system deteriorated, and
suddenly the SBC system no longer functioned.
Of course, Mercedes had a backup hydraulic-only braking system in
place, but the feeling of suddenly not having the same stopping power
was enough to send Mercedes' owners everywhere heading for the hills
- and you haven't stopped hearing about Mercedes quality problems since.
Apparently, Mercedes is finally getting tired of trying to convince
consumers of the benefits of the SBC system. Although the system is,
in my opinion, a definite advancement in braking technology, poor
implementation and poor design are ultimately leading to its downfall.
That's not to say Mercedes will entirely scrap the SBC system. I'm
sure Mercedes will continue to develop and improve the braking system
in the future; I just have a feeling the next generation of SBC will
be slightly less prone to malfunctioning.
Brake Control (SBC) from some of their models, starting with the E-
Class.
The SBC system has been a chronic thorn in Mercedes' side.
Manufactured by the Robert Bosch Group, the SBC system has led to the
recall of over 2 million Mercedes models (namely the E-Class), and
has played an integral part in the widespread "Mercedes quality
problems" you hear about so often.
So what exactly is the SBC Braking system? I'll try to sum it up in a
nutshell. The SBC braking system uses a microcomputer to monitor the
car and driver actions. In the event it's needed, such as emergency
braking, the system monitors brake pressure, and applies the
appropriate stopping power necessary, even if the driver doesn't
exert enough power.
SBC features a host of other features as well, including distributing
brake force to different wheels during cornering, to ensure greater
stability in the vehicle as well as maximum stopping power; the SBC
system even dries the brake discs if a film of water forms on them.
In other words, the system sounds like a milestone achievement in
braking technology, and it would be, assuming it worked properly.
Unfortunately, although the intent was good, the execution was not.
As you can probably tell, the entire system relied on electronics,
and as I'm sure everyone can attest to, nothing is more prone to
malfunctioning than electronics. And that is exactly what happened.
Before long, wiring in the SBC braking system deteriorated, and
suddenly the SBC system no longer functioned.
Of course, Mercedes had a backup hydraulic-only braking system in
place, but the feeling of suddenly not having the same stopping power
was enough to send Mercedes' owners everywhere heading for the hills
- and you haven't stopped hearing about Mercedes quality problems since.
Apparently, Mercedes is finally getting tired of trying to convince
consumers of the benefits of the SBC system. Although the system is,
in my opinion, a definite advancement in braking technology, poor
implementation and poor design are ultimately leading to its downfall.
That's not to say Mercedes will entirely scrap the SBC system. I'm
sure Mercedes will continue to develop and improve the braking system
in the future; I just have a feeling the next generation of SBC will
be slightly less prone to malfunctioning.
11-20-2007, 01:33 AM
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'06 Porsche 997 Black Sport Exhaust, '06 Mercedes E350 4MATIC Iridium Silver Apper+Prem Package
Does 06 4Matic have same brake? I have some strange experience with my brake. Once in a while, I hear some kind of air leaking noise when I step on the brakes. It's not SBC buzzing noise I am familar with. Whenever I hear this noise, the feel of the brake is definitely different from normal status. This happened only few times. I think it was 5 times over 2 year period. I took my car to the dealership to have it checked, but couldn't repro the noise there.
Does anybody know if this is the symptom for brake failure or have similar problem? Your expert opinion would be very much appreciated.
Does anybody know if this is the symptom for brake failure or have similar problem? Your expert opinion would be very much appreciated.
Last edited by Heejin; 11-20-2007 at 01:38 AM.
11-20-2007, 03:19 AM
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190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
The fact that your wife just restarted the car and continued to drive should alarm you! If she had an accident after continuing to drive after seeing that message would you expect MB to admit liability?
11-20-2007, 08:41 AM
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03 E500 and Corvette
This seems to be a common problem with many customers. "STOP NOW" and "BRAKE FAILURE" on my dash instantly means to me to follow those instructions and get it towed to a workshop. The system knows when there is an issue and full functionality can't be assured.
The fact that your wife just restarted the car and continued to drive should alarm you! If she had an accident after continuing to drive after seeing that message would you expect MB to admit liability?
The fact that your wife just restarted the car and continued to drive should alarm you! If she had an accident after continuing to drive after seeing that message would you expect MB to admit liability?
1) She continued to drive 1 mile to the house (to clear the roadway) at 5 mph using the park brake to stop and I would have done the same.
So YES I would expect MB to still be responsible for the functionality of the brake system.
2) The car WAS towed to the MB dealer.
3) To convince me the problem is corrected.
Mechanical/Electrical/Hydraulic systems do not heal with out human effort. There is a defect, hardware, component, hose, or line of code that results in failure.
Therefore to convince me the correction is completed to the best humanly possible. (Humans do fail)
Show me the defect:
a) Broken part
b) Defective hydraulic valve / controller etc
c) Failed electrical part
d) Revised codes or program update and version #
What I do not accept that we get many times.
"Problem could not be duplicated in shop"
Hope this helps. The NTSB report was filed yesterday. If this brake system is a problem the NTSB can track the data and then given the data make decisions if this is a highway safety issue. IMO it is.
Tough being an engineer,, but someone has to be one.
11-25-2007, 11:53 AM
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03 E500 and Corvette
SBC Failure Update
Dealer has had the car 5 days now. New SBC on order. They tell me they will have to replace the entire SBC pump.
Consider:
Failure of hot water valve at 25,000 miles
Brakes every 30,000 miles
Ball Joints at 70k
SBC total brake failure at 72K
Not a very good record. My Lincolns had less shop time than the MB for much less $$.
Consider:
Failure of hot water valve at 25,000 miles
Brakes every 30,000 miles
Ball Joints at 70k
SBC total brake failure at 72K
Not a very good record. My Lincolns had less shop time than the MB for much less $$.
