PIC REQUEST: w211's slammed or lowered :)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,252
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From: Blaine, WA
07 E320 Bluetec
Toe in and Caster are within specs following alignment at Cherry Hill MB but needs camber correction (I chose not to use bolts since rears also needs camber adjustment).
Current camber specs (Rears -2.13/-2.19 Front -2.43/-2.3). K-Mac bushings (front and rears) should bring them within specs since they have a +-1.75 adjustment range. The vehicle is going in tomorrow to install the K-Macs (bushings delivery expected today), I could have attempted to replace bushings myself but I let the experts do it on their lift. No doubt it will go back to Cherry Hill MB for another alignment.
Current camber specs (Rears -2.13/-2.19 Front -2.43/-2.3). K-Mac bushings (front and rears) should bring them within specs since they have a +-1.75 adjustment range. The vehicle is going in tomorrow to install the K-Macs (bushings delivery expected today), I could have attempted to replace bushings myself but I let the experts do it on their lift. No doubt it will go back to Cherry Hill MB for another alignment.
Camber: Rears -1.3/-1.5 Front -1.4/-1.4
Toe: Rears .09/.24 Front .11/.10
Total labor 8hrs bushings and 1 hr alignment: Cost $858.09
I'll order 15mm spacers tonight for the front wheels to complete the picture
Last edited by pinebaron; Jun 4, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,184
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From: Highlands Ranch, Colorado
2014 BMW M235i
Was the handling adversely affected by having the negative camber when you didn't have the K-Mac bushings installed? If anything I would think it would help cornering... but I don't want to lower my car if I have to spend $900 to just get the camber correct.
Is this needed on AirMatic? Will I be fine besides tire wear if I have the ~2.4 degrees of negative camber all around?
Is this needed on AirMatic? Will I be fine besides tire wear if I have the ~2.4 degrees of negative camber all around?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 18
From: Blaine, WA
07 E320 Bluetec
Was the handling adversely affected by having the negative camber when you didn't have the K-Mac bushings installed? If anything I would think it would help cornering... but I don't want to lower my car if I have to spend $900 to just get the camber correct.
Is this needed on AirMatic? Will I be fine besides tire wear if I have the ~2.4 degrees of negative camber all around?
Is this needed on AirMatic? Will I be fine besides tire wear if I have the ~2.4 degrees of negative camber all around?
The car handled perfectly fine before camber correction. Camber can actually improve handling, especially on cornering. The entire change, awesome Bilstein IRc shocks, lowering to almost maximum limits (considering wider tires I'm using) adding significant camber etc. was a massive change, to my aggressive style of driving. Prior to K-Macs etc change, the car really handled extremely well, like on rails and to quote my daughter who was here last weekend "Papa, your car is like driving on cream" which made my son sneer; he drives a lowered S-Class.
Camber correction was more in my
mind than a requirement or need.It may look a little better (that is debatible), may improve tire wear, then again not really, since I'm using staggered wheels, though I can always swap tires on each axle. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, it's just scattered knowledge I've gained from the forum and my son (his cars are lowered).
Is this needed on AirMatic? Your airmatic may be different, I have zero experience with it. My son's S-Class has airmatic and he lowered it using a module or something. Look around the forum and see how others have done it on airmatics.
If anything I would think it would help cornering... but I don't want to lower my car if I have to spend $900 to just get the camber correct.
Please don't follow my example if you are thinking about keeping costs down, I'm a little crazy about getting things right, nothing is perfect to me, have a bad attitude to everything, will spend(actually waste) any amount of time and money to improve stuff. Camber correction cost me over $2K including initial alignment at CHMB, K-Macs installation and realignment by the installing shop (Mill Street Tires, Moorestown NJ). I may take it back to CHMB to get an opinion on another re-alignment.
Will I be fine besides tire wear if I have the ~2.4 degrees of negative camber all around?: Probably! Please seek opinion of experts and knowledgeable resources on the forum and elsewhere.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 902
Likes: 3
From: Arizona
W211
lowering the car on bags (airmatic) or coils is still going to cause the geometry of the suspension to tweek, the method you do it in doesn't matter. so your camber and toe will change the same when lowering regardless.
negative camber will affect handling, i don't think anyone here will be able to notice daily driving but your tire makes less contact with the ground the more negative you go.
lastly does camber cause premature tire wear? well, that has been the biggest debate for a long time.. a lot of people say that if just your toe is aligned then you will be ok, running a low negative camber number like 2 degrees you'll be fine i think. my 211 is running about 4-4.5 degrees negative and my daily driver is almost at negative 5.5-6 degrees.
negative camber will affect handling, i don't think anyone here will be able to notice daily driving but your tire makes less contact with the ground the more negative you go.
lastly does camber cause premature tire wear? well, that has been the biggest debate for a long time.. a lot of people say that if just your toe is aligned then you will be ok, running a low negative camber number like 2 degrees you'll be fine i think. my 211 is running about 4-4.5 degrees negative and my daily driver is almost at negative 5.5-6 degrees.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,184
Likes: 16
From: Highlands Ranch, Colorado
2014 BMW M235i
Wow thank you both for the wealth of information on the suspension geometry. Good replies. It makes sense that a degree more of negative camber would improve handling or affect it somehow but I doubt it would cause too many adverse issues regardless. When I lower via STAR I'll just have MB of Westminster correct the suspension alignment as much as possible even if it is a little bit out of spec. Thanks!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 18
From: Blaine, WA
07 E320 Bluetec
I'm planning to have rear fenders rolled though it appears they are already rolled to an extent but there's room for more and I may gain a wee bit more space for further rear camber correction. With the car lowered, rear camber is (now) set to a feasible number to minimize danger of rubbing (when running shocks in Comfort mode) but risk of rubbing has not been eliminated unless I permamently run in Sport mode. I'm not prepared to give up wide 275 tires; 265 would be ideal or better, if my goal was only lowering but I want best of both worlds
Last edited by pinebaron; Jun 6, 2013 at 06:57 AM.
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Camber correction was more in my mind than a requirement or need.
It may look a little better (that is debatible), may improve tire wear, then again not really, since I'm using staggered wheels, though I can always swap tires on each axle. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, it's just scattered knowledge I've gained from the forum and my son (his cars are lowered).
mind than a requirement or need.It may look a little better (that is debatible), may improve tire wear, then again not really, since I'm using staggered wheels, though I can always swap tires on each axle. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, it's just scattered knowledge I've gained from the forum and my son (his cars are lowered).
Is this needed on AirMatic?
Your airmatic may be different, I have zero experience with it. My son's S-Class has airmatic and he lowered it using a module or something. Look around the forum and see how others have done it on airmatics.
Please don't follow my example if you are thinking about keeping costs down, I'm a little crazy about getting things right, nothing is perfect to me, have a bad attitude to everything, will spend(actually waste) any amount of time and money to improve stuff.....
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2009 W211 E350 AMG Sport PKG
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 872
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2009 W211 E350 AMG Sport PKG
do you have any shots looking straight down one side of the car from the back/front? i want to see how the flare/widebody looks from looking straight down one side
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,184
Likes: 16
From: Highlands Ranch, Colorado
2014 BMW M235i
Awesome looking car overall PHDZine looks really clean. Maybe it's just the angle but the rear profile is just too much for me though. It's only a 382-hp V8 and while I don't mind the stanced look it seems wayyyy to wide for me with 12s. Not to mention the extra weight. Beefy look, but the 12 inch wide wheels overdo it IMO. Don't mean any disrespect and I like your build but just my personal opinion.
