Calfunguy_99

I'm dissatisfied with Sumitomo AND Big O Tires of Santa Cruz. It's my belief you will not get any concerns adequately addressed by Big O.

I will be bringing my complaint to Big O corporate, Sumitomo Tires. In addition I will be filing a complaint with NHSTA and the California States Attorney General's office. Please share this with your friends to save them the trouble.

If you have had these kinds of issues, I suggest you report them to the NHSTA < Click for the link the the site. If we don't alert the governing bodies they can't do their job. The only way issues are known is when they are reported. Please report. Let's send the message we are serious about our tires.

When there is belt separation in my tires that appears premature, I expect concern for my safety. When I spend large dollars for four "performance" tires, I expect to have an advocate with the manufacturer from my retailer, not to be summarily dismissed.

After speaking with an employee and the manager, I was simply dismissed an told I had no basis for my claim. You be the judge.

Note* This is a factory suspension with stock wheels, the recommended tire size, with no mods of any kind. This is a factory car. The car was aligned prior to new tire purchase for the sole purpose of preventing premature tire wear. It as been aligned twice since both at a local shop and the Dealer in San Jose. In all three cases, my car met spec, and was for all intensive purposes, never really out of spec. I have all the paperwork do demonstrate this.

After throwing a belt on the left front tire, I approached Big O (the shop that recommended and sold me these tires) and I was told it was my car, that it's all four tires, and I was summarily dismissed. I was shocked! ALL FOUR TIRES HAD INSIDE WEAR. This wear was unlike anything I'd seen in my life. It looked like the belt was simply to narrow and there was definitely no belting on the corner construction to the sidewall. This is shown dramatically in the pictures (I hope are attached.) Notice the relatively even tread wear except for the inner corner. Then notice how it almost falls off the belt showing a ridge and then exposing the lower steel. What I find shocking is the dramatic look of the wear. One would think there was actual rubbing of the tires, but no; and the wear is on ALL FOUR TIRES. This is not right and caused all four tires to need to be prematurely replaced.

Because the wear was so strange, the inside edge on all four tires, I needed to resolve prior to spending money on new tires. In my investigation I spoke with two local Mercedes shops (Circle Star and Precision Mercedes) an autobody shop (Carmat) and my alignment specialist (More Service) On top of this, my first job out of high school was working at a tire shop. EVERYONE (outside of Big O) told me this was bad wear and this was a tire issue.

I can only surmise these tires can't stand the rigors of a performance Mercedes. Not only that I contend that they are mis-marketed and are not designed to be used on a performance car like the E350. Clearly negative 1.8 degress of camber on the rear wheels should create this type of wear.


Yet Big O didn't even offer to put it up on the lift to take a closer look. They didn't offer to contact the manufacturer, or even offer free installation on a new pair.

I'm sadly disappointed in this because a.) they were expensive tires meant for my high performance car b.) they appear to not meet the needs of my car c.) because my claims were instantly dismissed without a thorough evaluation d.) because this is a safety issue (think Firestone Rollover issue and Toyota sudden acceleration.

Why would Big O not at least reach out to Sumitomo and ask if there are issues? Are they that infinitely knowledgeable? I wasn't even given the chance to have my needs addressed after TWO attempts.

When do you really need a tire store? I mean NEED them? You need them after the sale. When you've spent the money and you are having an issue, that's when.

The challenge we all face is that tires (or any automobile technology we have limited experience with for that matter) are wearable items. When those items exhibit premature failure we want to know we are being treated fairly. We want to know that our business is important after the sale. We want our issues addressed with real concern. We want CUSTOMER SERVICE.

What we don't want is to be dismissed, discounted, or otherwise condescended to. The challenge is, dealing with issues is simply that, a challenge. It's fraught with emotion and there is an implied message of fault. There are those that do well with that challenge, and there is everyone else.

220S

I'm sure you'll get it worked out. Contact the Sumi distributor. btw, these are not expensive tires. They are inexpensive tires. A lot of the Porsche guys use them because they're cheap and decent. And they run lots of negative camber on the track. No complaints there.

And welcome to MBWorld. I assume you're staying. Or is this just an anti-Sumi/Big O of Santa Cruz campaign?

p.s., looks like you put some miles on those suckers, they're down to the wear bars.

gaazmon

damn. pics look pretty bad. I have sumitomo htr z 1 and this is my 2nd set. 1st wore out really evenly actually and liked them so much bought a 2nd set. ya, they should do something about that. that's pretty bad and it's sad to see that on the company's top model. i mean they aren't really expensive. nice performance, but don't last too long at the same time (my 1st set lasted 18k miles, but then again my area is bad with the twisties and i do lot's of city driving vs highway driving, and also the HTR Z 1 has the lowest treadwear rating, 160, vs the htr z 3 has 300). good bang for the buck though. how many miles you put on those, just wondering, cause like 220S said, you can see the indicators.

saffrontiger

Watching this thread closely. I just bought these.

lig

"Large dollars"?

Performance car?

220 got it right.



Man up and buy some new tires. You wore these out. HRT III is a good, cheap tire.

You want expensive? How about 295/30/19 PS2s. Roughly $500 per tire. You'll be lucky to get 10,000 miles out of the rears on a Porsche.

Calfunguy_99

I'm not here to debate whether $1,000 is expensive for tires. Nor am I here to bash or otherwise deride anyone. I'm simply here to share a story so that others can make there own choice.

I came to this site (and others) to research this issue under the initial assumption that IT WAS MY CAR. When I came to this site, I found lots of good information on this and other aspects of owning my car. I found it because others were good enough to take the time so i could research my issue and get advice in addition to what I found (and didn't really agree with) from the retailer. In my opinion this is what this site is about, information. After all the research, all the reading, on this site and others, it was made clear to me that this is a design/mfg tire issue, so I'm sharing it.

If this retailer was concerned in the least, he would have at a minimum called Sumitomo to ask. No one has all the answers. Just because he’d not seen the issue doesn’t mean it’s not one. The factory would be the focal point of all issues and global awareness of tire issues. For all we know this could be a lot related failure. Further, not contacting the manufacturer doesn't alert them to the potential of a quality/design issue, nor provide them an opportunity to address this. This was my experience; plain and simple.

Wear: One has suggested I've gotten good wear. Again this is subjective. What is good wear, what is expensive is relative. You have your opinion and I honor your right to that interpretation. Only I know how this car has been driven, what type of care to the tires. While it was driven daily, there was no mistreatment of the tires. (I don't "drift" this car.)

My issue here is not the 20,000 miles I got out of 30,000 mile tires, but rather the radical failure mechanism on the inside corner that is causing belt separation only on the inside corner and on all four tires in the same place. It is dramatic and is clearly visible. My challenge is that the failure mechanism appears to be consistent and on the inside edge that is difficult to spot. Because it's not readily apparent when the tires are mounted on the car, it poses a risk to myself, my passengers and others. I suggest this wear is premature and is due to lack of proper tire design for this type of automobile. That the weight and transverse stresses on the tires are not addressed with appropriate sidewall reinforcement on the corners.

Many cars run neg 2 degrees of camber on the rear for better performance while cornering. I too ran Michelin tires prior to the Sumitomos with NO INNER WEAR problem.

My car is and was always in spec for rear camber, regular tire rotation, balance and inflation.

So label if you will. I have no way of knowing if any critic works for the tire companies or is in some way defensive and frankly I don't care.

It's not as if I didn't seek unbiased input... If you had seen the look of bewilderment on the faces of ALL (6) of the independent professionals that have looked at this matter, you would perhaps feel the same.

Furthermore, how is Sumitomo or any manufacturer going to do better if we don't press for better? If we don’t ask for that? To some degree we are responsible for the quality we get. If we don’t demand more for our money, then we deserve what we get.

My challenge beyond the issue of premature wear is equally being summarily dismissed by the retailer. This is more of an affront when you realize that a.) it's the law that they return the tires for analysis in the state of CA b.) the tire manufacturer wants the tires back. They would be happy to hear, see and analyze the tires.

Calfunguy_99

For those owning Sumitomos HTR Zs on the W211 body style.

I suggest the following: Have the tires unmounted at about 10k miles and switched left to right. Even if you have to pay for it. I suggest its worth it. You might get an additional 5k miles. Also, keep the rear tires inflated a bit higher 38 to 40 PSI.

Finally make sure you look under the car and check for inner tire wear. By the time you throw a belt it's to late. At that point your options for purchasing tires at a more relaxed pace that allows for shopping will be past.

lig

Since when are these 30,000 mile tires? I don't think they have a treadlife warranty. AFAIK only their all season tires have a treadlife warranty. Most max performance summer tires do not.

And yes - expensive or inexpensive may be relative but on the absolute scale these are inexpensive tires.

Anything cheaper you don't want to be driving on.

I don't work for any tire company or dealer - I just happen to buy a lot of tires.

And if you had regular alignments and rotations then whoever was performing those jobs wasn't really paying attention to the fact that your tires were worn out.

Seriously - you got your money's worth of use out of these tires. If you want longer wear don't buy performance tires.

p.s. what is an "intensive purpose"?

vettdvr

Now you know why I run Michelins. My diesel truck had a similar problem with 4 new tires. Front had radial tire pull and I called mfg and dealer. Nothing was done,, The tire blistered the size of a football with NO wear through and about 65% of origional tread evenly worn. I replaced the two front tires with Michelin's thinking 1 in 4 and it would not happen again. Last week one of the truck tires threw the tread which did $3000 in damage to the truck and temporarly lost control in a fishtail. I replaced both rear tires with Michelin's and I also filed with NTSB. After filing I did a search and found others using the same tire had totalled their truck. Did the MFG do anything. NO,, did the dealer NO. Same answers you got for tires that were apparently defective. I went to the ins adjuster who questioned me on running low tire pressure. The tire that threw the tread was still inflated. He checked and verified I had the correct pressure and it was a tire issue. Finding someone to accept responsibility now days is almost like finding a Geni in a bottle.

I agree with you on being unsatisfied with the tires, way they wore,, IT does appear the belt was not wide enough to support the inside of the tread from the pictures. But as the tire mfg basically told me, what do I know I am not a tire engineer,, just a regular mechanical engineer therefore I don't build tires. Best of luck you will have to buy your tires and I recommend the Michelins PS2 which came OEM on my car. I now have 30,000 miles on them and they will need replacing soon but they are worn even and still run smooth.

Vik888

love my Michelin PS2's!

werewolf34

I am a bargain tire shopper but will not touch Sumitomo. Lots of complaints (especially with the summers) on strange early wear (like 10k-15k)

I like Kumho ASXs as a bargain tire. If you need treadlife, go all-season

The Merc tire sizes are not cheap period. I think you're looking at 150 minimum a tire

traumatic

I just had the same thing happen with my '05 E320 with E55 wheel package and Perelli P Zero Nero's, and to a lesser degree, with my prior BMW 528i Sport with Dunlop SP2000's. I think the problem is related to the size and performance of the car than the tires. I spoke to a couple of people about this, who agreed this problem is due to suspension geometry, not a tire defect.

Heatwave

Any update on your tire issues?

FirstMB

This is a rediculous statement. It's obvious that these tires needed to be replaced because of an uneven wear so he did not get his money's worth. He would have gotten his money's worth if the whole tread was down to the wear indicator. In this case, there's plenty of tread lef in the middle and outer edge of the tires. The other statement about how he should not be riding on anything less than a grand is way off as well. Do yourself a favor, and read the review from Car and Driver on the Hankook tires. They were not only highly praised, they were rated higer than the much more expensive Michelin PS2. And, yes, they can be had for well under a grand.

Quadcammer

lol, these are not expensive tires and a 211 E350 is not a performance car.

I run the sumi's on my 911 Turbo and they are wearing great, front and rear.

I haven't seen anybody else have similar issues and a lot of porsche owners use them as noted by 220s.

Therefore, I'd say its a problem with your car or you got some bum tires.

lig

Really? Your reasoning is as good as your spelling.

Please enlighten us on how my statement is "rediculous"

I'll give you a little help:

From TireRack -

HTR Z III - Treadlife Warranty: None

I never said he should be riding on anything less than a grand. Your reading comprehension = FAIL

I did say the Sumis were inexpensive. And that is true. The OPs assertion that he spent "large dollars" on HTRs is laughable.

I got 6,000 miles out of my RE050s on my 911. Worth every penny. That tire is much more costly than the HTRs. Gotta pay to play.

If you can't afford to replace some cheap tires every 30,000 miles perhaps driving a cheaper car should be a consideration.

SoCal208

[QUOTE=Calfunguy_99;4093669]I'm dissatisfied with Sumitomo AND Big O Tires of Santa Cruz. It's my belief you will not get any concerns adequately addressed by Big O.

Years ago, when I still working, I burned a set of tires every year, Sumitomo is the tires I bought, because it cheap & good for the price, also " Made in Japan ". 5 years ago when I go to the same tires shop for a new set (215x55x16) Sumi HTR II, curiously I look at the new tires on the floor, read the side wall, it has " Made in China ", I asked the shop owner, he said : since the last year, all the SUMITOMO tires are " Made in China " but under Sumitomo corporate quality control, I ask the tire shop I to get another brand, I bought the FALKEN ZE912, tires were " Made in Japan " , only a few more dollars each tire than Sumitomo. Look at the car's & tool product " Made in China " from the auto part stores, the tools are shiny, cheap, but it break right out when you use with force. I ride my life on the 4 tires, I do not want the blow out when I drive 70-80 MPH. At least you find out the problems with the Sumitomo before anything happen, otherwise, a blow out when you drive at speed. I do not trust the products "Made in China", even my Dell laptop is Made in China, but I will deal with Dell Corporate if anything bad happen. Many different of tires on the market are from China, members be aware of the product when you spend your hard earned money, in this case, your life ride on it. I do not trust the tires " Made in China ", they've just come to the US in the last few years, they are the master of fake LV, Omega, Rolex....It look good, but FAKE, I afraid of the same with tires.

FirstMB

Ok, so I don't type so well on my iphone over lunch at work, and I don't ever bother to proof read. What's the big deal Mr. Moron? Who said this was an English composition class anyways, again Mr. Moron.

The point is, it doesn't matter if you paid $10k for some tires, or $50 for them. It also doesn't matter if the tires have tread wear of 50k miles, or none, if they don't wear completely evenly because of the fault of the tires, then he did not get his money's worth. According to the poster, he made sure his car was aligned properly, so the only factor left is with the tires. Apparently, you didn't get my point so well did you "Mr. Reading Comprehension".

lig

I guess you completely pwned me. I'm a moron.

That's the best you can come up with? I'm going to take a wild guess that you weren't on the debate team in high school.

If you believe that the OP had his car aligned twice since those tires were installed then I've got a bridge to sell you. He was just a troll looking for a quick buck.

No dealership or shop could have aligned the car without noticing the extreme wear pattern most likely caused by excess toe. And two alignments within 30,000 miles for a guy who thinks that Sumis are expensive? That sounds like pure bs. An alignment at the dealer would likely cost as much or more than a new tire.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence from the OP about the alignment claims he makes. Notice he hasn't even been back here since the initial posts.

The fatal flaw in your argument is your assumption that the tires are faulty. Perhaps you also believe that an E350 is a "high performance" car.

There isn't one iota of proof that what the OP claims is true.

Vik888

This thread sucks and needs to be locked up .. where are the admins when you need them.

bkyardy

Okay Okay, I'm here to say it is not the Sumitomo Tires, all tires fail on this car. The Camber is set too aggressively. I went through 2 set of tires since purchasing my E350 Sport in 09'. The tread wear is very deceptive, looking at them from the outside they had lots of tread. I took my car in for scheduled maintenance and the dealership told me that my tires were shot... I did not believe them... I crawled underneath the vehicle and saw exactly what they were talking about. The wear was on all four tire along the inside edge. My right rear tire was in such bad shape the dealership told me not to drive the car home. The steel belts were showing and the side wall looked as if it was separating from the base of the tire. I was told by a shop that works on German imports that they are camber bolts available at the Mercedes dealerships that might help out somewhat.. Unfortunately dealerships don't tell you about the possible fix. They try to sell you new tires instead. Gotta luv'em.