The dreaded M272 Balance Shaft
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 623
Likes: 5
Thanks for the reply. Since I'm not experiencing any problems with performance or handling I'm not going to take it in and have it disassembled. I work in marketing and just don't have the time to deal with a motor tear down, phone calls to MBUSA etc etc. Unless it goes kaputt, I'm going to keep on driving it. If I had a gun to my head I would be willing to bet that the job has already been done. There are a few telltale signs that the motor has been removed (despite a clean 2 owner carfax) such as lower front facia misalignment, scars on the engine mount bolts etc. Besides, according to my research, if the problem is just now occurring with the shaft, it would set a record for most miles before gear failure. I do however have a 3000 mile powertrain warranty with the lot I bought it from. I have 1900 miles to go on it. So I will keep my fingers crossed.
Also, have the oil drained and inspect it with a magnet. If there is any metal in it, with the CEL and cam codes then you got a bad balance shaft. Wish and hope all you like but if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and poos like a duck.... then it's a DUCK !!!
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
ML350 SL500
My W164 ML350 2005 has this issue, the CEL has been on since February and it's done 133k miles. First thing to note is that the engine runs absolutely fine, starts OK and does the same MPG as it ever did. The light actually came on at around 125k miles - I have had the car from new (with dealer service history) and there has been no previous repair to the balance shaft.
Yesterday I had the four Camshaft Timing Control Solenoids (£20/$33 each and £60/$99 to fit) replaced with the revised part as per the Mercedes bulletin and the CEL light went out.
For all of six minutes
There may possibly be an issue with the Camshaft Position Sensors, but they are quite expensive to fit in the hope that changes things and the codes point to constant camshaft adjustment ergo it is almost certain the sprocket is worn.
There is a simple way to check this - you need to remove the Camshaft Position Sensors and align the balancer (305°) to front cover pointer. Once done, you should see stamped numbers in a circular pattern on the Impulse Wheels and they should align exactly with the holes. Mine didn't - they were adrift on the LH bank by a margin & this apparently is where the chain tension is, so the problem shows up there first.
An independent can do the repair for £1.6k/$2.6k to £2k/$3.3k - a dealer more like £4k/$6.6k as it's lots of hours labour.
My heap of junk is off to an auction next week so it becomes somebody else's problem
Yesterday I had the four Camshaft Timing Control Solenoids (£20/$33 each and £60/$99 to fit) replaced with the revised part as per the Mercedes bulletin and the CEL light went out.
For all of six minutes
There may possibly be an issue with the Camshaft Position Sensors, but they are quite expensive to fit in the hope that changes things and the codes point to constant camshaft adjustment ergo it is almost certain the sprocket is worn.
There is a simple way to check this - you need to remove the Camshaft Position Sensors and align the balancer (305°) to front cover pointer. Once done, you should see stamped numbers in a circular pattern on the Impulse Wheels and they should align exactly with the holes. Mine didn't - they were adrift on the LH bank by a margin & this apparently is where the chain tension is, so the problem shows up there first.
An independent can do the repair for £1.6k/$2.6k to £2k/$3.3k - a dealer more like £4k/$6.6k as it's lots of hours labour.
My heap of junk is off to an auction next week so it becomes somebody else's problem
Last edited by bobmedley; Aug 2, 2012 at 05:03 AM.
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Update: Got the estimate for over $9K including new manifold. Now I have to see what MBUSA will do if anything, find an indy that can do it if MBUSA won't help or install a used engine outside the affected range.
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00
Spark plugs****** 210.00
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00
Trans mount***** 95.00
Poly belt*************** 110.00
Belt tensioner* **245.00
Idler pulley********* 95.00
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00
Spark plugs****** 210.00
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00
Trans mount***** 95.00
Poly belt*************** 110.00
Belt tensioner* **245.00
Idler pulley********* 95.00
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 112
Likes: 22
2012 E350 4matic Sport
Not sure why the Intake Manifold would need replacing for the Balance Shaft issue. Perhaps someone on here can offer their opinion on that, unless yours just went bad ... but I am fairly certain, Intake Manifold is completely unrelated to Balance Shaft failure. May I ask how many miles you have on your vehicle?
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 623
Likes: 5
DO NOT let the local dealer do this repair, unless it is a warranty of course. They will sell you anything they think they can get away with. Find a good indy locally....but make sure they have replaced a balancing shaft (or 2) before.
Do the math and look at their labour charge $5200 ! ridiculous.
That works out to 40hrs, plus or minus based on hourly rates......at $100/hr it's 52 hours !!
It's a 12 hour job MAX by someone who knows what they are doing.
5200 should be the high side on the compete repair.
Good luck with MBUSA....in Canada they will do nothing. NOTHING.
I will never buy another Mercedes based on the way they have handled this issue alone.
Get your car away from that dealer, run...don't walk!
Do the math and look at their labour charge $5200 ! ridiculous.
That works out to 40hrs, plus or minus based on hourly rates......at $100/hr it's 52 hours !!
It's a 12 hour job MAX by someone who knows what they are doing.
5200 should be the high side on the compete repair.
Good luck with MBUSA....in Canada they will do nothing. NOTHING.
I will never buy another Mercedes based on the way they have handled this issue alone.
Get your car away from that dealer, run...don't walk!
Last edited by Brian McL; Nov 6, 2012 at 09:58 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 15
From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
Update: Got the estimate for over $9K including new manifold. Now I have to see what MBUSA will do if anything, find an indy that can do it if MBUSA won't help or install a used engine outside the affected range.
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00
Spark plugs****** 210.00
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00
Trans mount***** 95.00
Poly belt*************** 110.00
Belt tensioner* **245.00
Idler pulley********* 95.00
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00
Spark plugs****** 210.00
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00
Trans mount***** 95.00
Poly belt*************** 110.00
Belt tensioner* **245.00
Idler pulley********* 95.00
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 623
Likes: 5
Update: Got the estimate for over $9K including new manifold. Now I have to see what MBUSA will do if anything, find an indy that can do it if MBUSA won't help or install a used engine outside the affected range.
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THIS
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THIS
Spark plugs****** 210.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THESE
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00 WHY ?
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00 THEY ARE NOT NECESSARY
Trans mount***** 95.00 NEITHER IS THIS
Poly belt*************** 110.00 IS IT WORN OUT? PROBABLY NOT!
Belt tensioner* **245.00 PROBABLY OK TO LEAVE THE OLD ONE, TOO
Idler pulley********* 95.00 WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS ? PAINT MISSING?
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
How hard is it to replace the manifold and why would it need replacing? Does it crack or is it a gasket/vacuum leak issue? It just started to hunt at idle.
Thoughts?
Complaint:Engine light on,Idles rough
and engine reving
Parts list:Intake manifold 1150.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THIS
Balance shaft* 550.00.
Timing chain** 395.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THIS
Spark plugs****** 210.00 UNLIKELY YOU NEED THESE
Intake gaskets20.50
Air filters************ 88.00 WHY ?
Times 2 oil & filter change 240.00
Cam plugs********* 40.00
Engine mounts375.00 THEY ARE NOT NECESSARY
Trans mount***** 95.00 NEITHER IS THIS
Poly belt*************** 110.00 IS IT WORN OUT? PROBABLY NOT!
Belt tensioner* **245.00 PROBABLY OK TO LEAVE THE OLD ONE, TOO
Idler pulley********* 95.00 WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS ? PAINT MISSING?
Total*********************** 3613.50
Tax******************************* 252.95
Parts total************ 3866.45
Labor************************ 5200.00
Grand total********** 9066.45
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT MBUSA ALLOWS TO BE BILLED TO THEM, PARTS/TIME, WHEN A BALANCING SHAFT IS SWAPPED UNDER WARRANTY.....IT ISN'T ALL THIS STUFF AND DEFINETLY NOT UPTO 52 HOURS LABOUR
YOU ARE SOOO GETTING SCREWED BY THESE GUYS !!!!
IF ANYONE ELSE HERE HAS USED THIS DEALER IN THE PAST YOU MAY WANT TO REVIEW YOUR BILL(S)
Last edited by Brian McL; Nov 6, 2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Thanks guys.
The car has 120K miles. We had the extended warranty until 100K. It's our third and last MB.
Our local dealer is Baker Motor Co. and they suck, so we took it to Dyer and Dyer in Columbia. First time dealing with them.
They want THREE weeks to repair it!!'
Our indy and another shop here in charleston sc don't do the repair. Not sure of anyone else here or columbia who can do it. Next choice might be Atlanta, as we have family there.
I question some of the items as well (motor/trans mounts, belt, pulley, etc.). The belt and plugs were changed within 10-15K miles.
The manifold I could probably do myself, but I'm not sure what's wrong with old one. I don't see it related to the balance shaft, but the surge in idle at start up and while parked and idling.
We have a call into MBUSA now.
The car has 120K miles. We had the extended warranty until 100K. It's our third and last MB.
Our local dealer is Baker Motor Co. and they suck, so we took it to Dyer and Dyer in Columbia. First time dealing with them.
They want THREE weeks to repair it!!'
Our indy and another shop here in charleston sc don't do the repair. Not sure of anyone else here or columbia who can do it. Next choice might be Atlanta, as we have family there.
I question some of the items as well (motor/trans mounts, belt, pulley, etc.). The belt and plugs were changed within 10-15K miles.
The manifold I could probably do myself, but I'm not sure what's wrong with old one. I don't see it related to the balance shaft, but the surge in idle at start up and while parked and idling.
We have a call into MBUSA now.
Last edited by a930rocket; Nov 6, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 623
Likes: 5
I can't help with an indy in that area....if you lived here I would do it for you. Start a new thread requesting an indy in the area that is convenient to were you live.
There MUST be someone who can recommend a shop.
I've had MB my whole life....8 vehicles, purchased new...and this 2008 C class will be the last 'cause when the shaft went in our car MBCanada / dealer couldn't care less.
I replaced it myself, with a friend, (no big deal really, just time) and have the car for sale.
But now potential MB buyers are getting smart, they want proof the car doesn't have the bad engine by serial number.. (and MB is NO help when you call with a VIN requesting engine info. Like "...what problem with the engine are you talking about"? I went throught the same BS denial with wiring harnesses in the mid-90's)
And if it does have a suspect engine the buyer wants proof the shaft has been replaced before they will buy or offer such a low price it's ridiculous.
It just sickens me to see the path MB has gone down with the customer service.
Issues arise, things break but they have turned their back on this and as far as I'm concerned they turned their back on me so screw them.
I tell everyone I know buy a Lexus...."buy a Lexus" (never thought I would say that) or BMW. That is the next car.
Good luck
There MUST be someone who can recommend a shop.
I've had MB my whole life....8 vehicles, purchased new...and this 2008 C class will be the last 'cause when the shaft went in our car MBCanada / dealer couldn't care less.
I replaced it myself, with a friend, (no big deal really, just time) and have the car for sale.
But now potential MB buyers are getting smart, they want proof the car doesn't have the bad engine by serial number.. (and MB is NO help when you call with a VIN requesting engine info. Like "...what problem with the engine are you talking about"? I went throught the same BS denial with wiring harnesses in the mid-90's)
And if it does have a suspect engine the buyer wants proof the shaft has been replaced before they will buy or offer such a low price it's ridiculous.
It just sickens me to see the path MB has gone down with the customer service.
Issues arise, things break but they have turned their back on this and as far as I'm concerned they turned their back on me so screw them.
I tell everyone I know buy a Lexus...."buy a Lexus" (never thought I would say that) or BMW. That is the next car.
Good luck
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Brian,
I'm pretty mechanically inclined, as I've rebuilt cars, suspensions, V8 engines, my Porsche 911 Turbo engine, etc.
Does the engine need to be pulled out, or can I do it from the front? Seems like there is plenty of room to work on it, compared to others I've worked on.
Do you have a list of parts/part numbers you installed?
Thanks,
Jim
I'm pretty mechanically inclined, as I've rebuilt cars, suspensions, V8 engines, my Porsche 911 Turbo engine, etc.
Does the engine need to be pulled out, or can I do it from the front? Seems like there is plenty of room to work on it, compared to others I've worked on.
Do you have a list of parts/part numbers you installed?
Thanks,
Jim
I can't help with an indy in that area....if you lived here I would do it for you. Start a new thread requesting an indy in the area that is convenient to were you live.
There MUST be someone who can recommend a shop.
I've had MB my whole life....8 vehicles, purchased new...and this 2008 C class will be the last 'cause when the shaft went in our car MBCanada / dealer couldn't care less.
I replaced it myself, with a friend, (no big deal really, just time) and have the car for sale.
But now potential MB buyers are getting smart, they want proof the car doesn't have the bad engine by serial number.. (and MB is NO help when you call with a VIN requesting engine info. Like "...what problem with the engine are you talking about"? I went throught the same BS denial with wiring harnesses in the mid-90's)
And if it does have a suspect engine the buyer wants proof the shaft has been replaced before they will buy or offer such a low price it's ridiculous.
It just sickens me to see the path MB has gone down with the customer service.
Issues arise, things break but they have turned their back on this and as far as I'm concerned they turned their back on me so screw them.
I tell everyone I know buy a Lexus...."buy a Lexus" (never thought I would say that) or BMW. That is the next car.
Good luck
There MUST be someone who can recommend a shop.
I've had MB my whole life....8 vehicles, purchased new...and this 2008 C class will be the last 'cause when the shaft went in our car MBCanada / dealer couldn't care less.
I replaced it myself, with a friend, (no big deal really, just time) and have the car for sale.
But now potential MB buyers are getting smart, they want proof the car doesn't have the bad engine by serial number.. (and MB is NO help when you call with a VIN requesting engine info. Like "...what problem with the engine are you talking about"? I went throught the same BS denial with wiring harnesses in the mid-90's)
And if it does have a suspect engine the buyer wants proof the shaft has been replaced before they will buy or offer such a low price it's ridiculous.
It just sickens me to see the path MB has gone down with the customer service.
Issues arise, things break but they have turned their back on this and as far as I'm concerned they turned their back on me so screw them.
I tell everyone I know buy a Lexus...."buy a Lexus" (never thought I would say that) or BMW. That is the next car.
Good luck
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Called MBUSA and the case manager says MBUSA will not help. She reported that I didn't get my car serviced at the dealer. When did that become a requirement? Asked for her manager and she refused.
Same run around deal when the air intake drain clogged and water damaged the blower motor. I fixed that in an hour and a $150 part.
Can MBUSA suck any more?
Same run around deal when the air intake drain clogged and water damaged the blower motor. I fixed that in an hour and a $150 part.
Can MBUSA suck any more?
Last edited by a930rocket; Nov 7, 2012 at 01:40 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,633
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
DTB attachment covers repair & parts https://mbworld.org/forums/4525797-post6.html
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,633
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Budapest
2007 E350 4matic
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Found two shops that will do it. One for $3600 and the other for $4000.
Went to the dealer yesterday to bring it home and have an indie fix it. They brought the car around and it barely ran and then wouldn't start. Ran fine when we brought it in. Just a CEL on.
Left it there and a bunch of wrenches looking at it when we left.
Thanks again Mercedes Benz....
Went to the dealer yesterday to bring it home and have an indie fix it. They brought the car around and it barely ran and then wouldn't start. Ran fine when we brought it in. Just a CEL on.
Left it there and a bunch of wrenches looking at it when we left.
Thanks again Mercedes Benz....
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
E350
Balance shaft repair in SC
a930rocket-
If you can get the vehicle to Marion, SC then check with Ken Baker Originals there. I had to do this repair in May for my 2006 E350 and I saved by having my neighbor pull the engine for $1,000 and I drove the engine down to Ken Baker- they did the repair for $1,700 since the engine was already pulled. I have since put 10,000 miles on the car (Drove to Key West and back from the Carolinas) not a single problem or hicup. They seemed to know what they were doing and they mentioned completing the repair before on other vehicles so I would recommend them.
If you can get the vehicle to Marion, SC then check with Ken Baker Originals there. I had to do this repair in May for my 2006 E350 and I saved by having my neighbor pull the engine for $1,000 and I drove the engine down to Ken Baker- they did the repair for $1,700 since the engine was already pulled. I have since put 10,000 miles on the car (Drove to Key West and back from the Carolinas) not a single problem or hicup. They seemed to know what they were doing and they mentioned completing the repair before on other vehicles so I would recommend them.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 623
Likes: 5
Brian,
I'm pretty mechanically inclined, as I've rebuilt cars, suspensions, V8 engines, my Porsche 911 Turbo engine, etc.
Does the engine need to be pulled out, or can I do it from the front? Seems like there is plenty of room to work on it, compared to others I've worked on.
Do you have a list of parts/part numbers you installed?
Thanks,
Jim
I'm pretty mechanically inclined, as I've rebuilt cars, suspensions, V8 engines, my Porsche 911 Turbo engine, etc.
Does the engine need to be pulled out, or can I do it from the front? Seems like there is plenty of room to work on it, compared to others I've worked on.
Do you have a list of parts/part numbers you installed?
Thanks,
Jim
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Mount Pleasant SC
R350
Thanks stevenseb. I've got Carl Troy at European Road and Race here in Charleston lined up to do the work at a much mote reasonable price. I'd pull the engine/trans myself, but can't due to time constraints. I've also talked to Carl about the intake manifold. Obviously they don't wear out, but they have variable controls that wear out or break (the three rods and connecting plate) from what I've read. Multiple calls to the MB dealer produced no information on what is wrong with it, except it needs to be replaced.
My faith in honest dealers is long gone.
My faith in honest dealers is long gone.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
2007 S550
I'm looking at a 2010 ML 350, VIN: 4JGBB5GB1AA623657, any help would be a blessing. Have a 2007 S550 with the gear issue now
don't want to do it again.
don't want to do it again.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,633
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
I'm looking at a 2010 ML 350, VIN: 4JGBB5GB1AA623657, any help would be a blessing. Have a 2007 S550 with the gear issue now don't want to do it again.
don't want to do it again.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 504
Likes: 49
W205, X253, C190, W213,
Found two shops that will do it. One for $3600 and the other for $4000.
Went to the dealer yesterday to bring it home and have an indie fix it. They brought the car around and it barely ran and then wouldn't start. Ran fine when we brought it in. Just a CEL on.
Left it there and a bunch of wrenches looking at it when we left.
Thanks again Mercedes Benz....
Went to the dealer yesterday to bring it home and have an indie fix it. They brought the car around and it barely ran and then wouldn't start. Ran fine when we brought it in. Just a CEL on.
Left it there and a bunch of wrenches looking at it when we left.
Thanks again Mercedes Benz....
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
E300 D
Hello My Scottdale neighbor. I am looking at 2008 E350. IS this car on the list of Trouble??? WDBUF56XX8B358593
Thanks,
Bill
Thanks,
Bill
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
E300 D
My E300
was written off by my insurance company.
I just test drove this 2008 E350. Loved the car, but the OD is reading 63k which is when this engine has issues.
I looked in the owners manual and it showed me were to find the Engine number but it was not on the firewall, unless it's behind the cover.
I want to avoid this balance shaft issue. I tried using the RU site and could not get the engine number, and MB was closed.
IF someone could help me that would be awesome.
Bill
I just test drove this 2008 E350. Loved the car, but the OD is reading 63k which is when this engine has issues.
I looked in the owners manual and it showed me were to find the Engine number but it was not on the firewall, unless it's behind the cover.
I want to avoid this balance shaft issue. I tried using the RU site and could not get the engine number, and MB was closed.
IF someone could help me that would be awesome.
Bill
