DO NOT waive your rights!
01-01-2004, 12:26 PM
#26
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'71 Pinto
Brakes ALERT
At the risk of becoming annoying (as one member complained), yet another example:
GearHead
The service advisor indicated everything was done and was road tested. Less than 3 miles from the dealer, my BRAKES FAILED.
Marksatex
I think that Mercedes should recieve honest customer evaluations and cease this practice of encouraging or even bribing for the "Excellant" mark. How on earth are they ever going to deal with their failures as an organization if they refuse to acknowledge them?
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=56189
GearHead
The service advisor indicated everything was done and was road tested. Less than 3 miles from the dealer, my BRAKES FAILED.
Marksatex
I think that Mercedes should recieve honest customer evaluations and cease this practice of encouraging or even bribing for the "Excellant" mark. How on earth are they ever going to deal with their failures as an organization if they refuse to acknowledge them?
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=56189
01-01-2004, 12:37 PM
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'71 Pinto
Radio static and sound connection unavailable.
So why don't they? We tell them what needs to be done. Sometimes they even screw up after we specifically recommend what needs to be done. Excellent rating my ***!!
Patrick
In general, if dealers really want to help their customers, they should always have to put the latest SW on the cars (Comand: with workshop-update-CD, AGW: with update-CD (SW 43/03 or younger) and Star diagnosis, navigation-unit: DVD 2.3 or higher, Audio50APS: CD 2.0 or higher,...) and the latest control units (with special attention to the telephone CU and the unit that synchronizes the microphone signals).
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=55679
Patrick
In general, if dealers really want to help their customers, they should always have to put the latest SW on the cars (Comand: with workshop-update-CD, AGW: with update-CD (SW 43/03 or younger) and Star diagnosis, navigation-unit: DVD 2.3 or higher, Audio50APS: CD 2.0 or higher,...) and the latest control units (with special attention to the telephone CU and the unit that synchronizes the microphone signals).
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=55679
01-01-2004, 03:25 PM
#28
Re: Brakes ALERT
Originally posted by konigstiger
I think that Mercedes should recieve honest customer evaluations and cease this practice of encouraging or even bribing for the "Excellant" mark. How on earth are they ever going to deal with their failures as an organization if they refuse to acknowledge them
I think that Mercedes should recieve honest customer evaluations and cease this practice of encouraging or even bribing for the "Excellant" mark. How on earth are they ever going to deal with their failures as an organization if they refuse to acknowledge them
The answer I wanted to hear was, we **cked up will fix it ASAP and we will try to make sure it does not happen again....if MB sends me a survey about the quality of this service, I will be sure to rate it as the worst service I have ever received for any vehicle I have ever owned...that simple...
Once again I do believe (at least in Austin), this has to do with the lack of competition (only 1 MB dealer) so no one seems to care. I'm hoping with the opening of the new dealership soon, darwin's law will make these guys get better...
01-01-2004, 08:47 PM
#29
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Hate to burst your bubble, but.....
"It's like building a computer and never turning it on before selling it to the customer."
So you think they test new computers as a whole system? But I understand what you're saying. Several times I've had to return to MB to get the job done right. Until MB upper management uses the surveys to fix their training/diagnostics/processes instead of as a hammer on the dealers the problem will continue.
So you think they test new computers as a whole system? But I understand what you're saying. Several times I've had to return to MB to get the job done right. Until MB upper management uses the surveys to fix their training/diagnostics/processes instead of as a hammer on the dealers the problem will continue.
Last edited by mleskovar; 01-01-2004 at 10:26 PM.
01-01-2004, 10:02 PM
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2004 E500
I agree with Abhansali - they should at least make sure that Parktronic (ir whatever) is fully functional if they were working on any part of it.
As to mleskovar's response: yes - new computers (PC's, at least) are usually fully burned in from 24 - 48 hours to test components, and software is typically loaded from a pre-tested image to ensure correct functioning.
Lastly, working on a single component of anything does not mean a full system test should (or can) be performed, since it would just take too much time. But wouldn't you think running full system diagnostics after any electronic repair would be a good idea, to catch things like Parktronic not working?
It like making mods to any software application (my area of expertise), and then making sure a typcial user can actually access the app and no longer experience was was supposedly fixed.
As to mleskovar's response: yes - new computers (PC's, at least) are usually fully burned in from 24 - 48 hours to test components, and software is typically loaded from a pre-tested image to ensure correct functioning.
Lastly, working on a single component of anything does not mean a full system test should (or can) be performed, since it would just take too much time. But wouldn't you think running full system diagnostics after any electronic repair would be a good idea, to catch things like Parktronic not working?
It like making mods to any software application (my area of expertise), and then making sure a typcial user can actually access the app and no longer experience was was supposedly fixed.
01-01-2004, 11:09 PM
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Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
If I was your sales rep, you guys could count on nothing but the best from me. I would like to own a Benz dealer someday, and I can assure you the way these dealers are would not happen with me. Its a shame that the people they hire usually dont give a jack for mercedes or their customers. Judgeing by some of the service you guys receive you guys make our Chevy dealer sound better than a Benz Dealer.
01-02-2004, 12:02 AM
#33
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"new computers (PC's, at least) are usually fully burned in from 24 - 48 hours to test components, and software is typically loaded from a pre-tested image to ensure correct functioning." Sorry, but today's environment with PC's does not include a burn in at the system level....and rarely "24 - 48 hours" at the component level. Yes, software is loaded from a known image but even you know that image is transitory. Fact is, we expect our cars to get fixed the first time and there's nothing wrong with that expectation. To allow a dealer to "good old boy" you into an excellent response is perpetuating shoddy service.
01-02-2004, 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by gup998
Wow....this thread is extremely informative. A lot of Benz owners are missing out on important information and getting lured into the bribes. :rollseyes:
Wow....this thread is extremely informative. A lot of Benz owners are missing out on important information and getting lured into the bribes. :rollseyes:
GM, sales, service ...what's your schtick?
01-02-2004, 11:07 AM
#35
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1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
People... Don't sell out to a greedy dealer or salesperson.
Their salaries are dependent on their quality service and their attention to customer satisfaction.
They are supposed to care about these things from the moment you step foot into the dealership.
This means they are not to give prospective customers the "holier than thou" attitude at any time regardless of the age of the customer, the model the customer is seeking, or the way the customer is dressed.
A salesperson's customers are his/her way of making a living, as such, each customer should be treated like the top of the line customer who purchases new models every couple of years.
It is simply deplorable that a salesperson give a customer minimum service and expect an "outstanding" evaluation on their survey.
Who cares if it costs the salesperson his job, or his paycheck. Hopefully the surveys will cause the salesperson to realize they are above no one and that they actually have to work and-get this-treat people with respect and give them quality service in order to make a living.
The mere thought of a salesperson trying to "make it right" by offering you a "free car detail" or "loaner" is even more deplorable. These "services" cost the salesperson/dealership nothing and are mediocre at best and only serve to slap the customer in the face.
I mean if you are going to "offer" something for my hardships, at least make it respectable and comparable to the hardships I have experienced. You disrespect me and expect to settle it with a cheap carwash?
Besides, how can a salesperson "make it right" when he was trying to rip you off and was giving you an attitude from the moment you walked in the door?
The only way to "make it right" in thoses cases is to hit the salesperson/dealership where it hurts them the most: their pocketbooks.
It's a tough world out there and if you want my money you are going to have to get off your a$$, especially when I am going to spend more than $100,000 on a vehicle.
Their salaries are dependent on their quality service and their attention to customer satisfaction.
They are supposed to care about these things from the moment you step foot into the dealership.
This means they are not to give prospective customers the "holier than thou" attitude at any time regardless of the age of the customer, the model the customer is seeking, or the way the customer is dressed.
A salesperson's customers are his/her way of making a living, as such, each customer should be treated like the top of the line customer who purchases new models every couple of years.
It is simply deplorable that a salesperson give a customer minimum service and expect an "outstanding" evaluation on their survey.
Who cares if it costs the salesperson his job, or his paycheck. Hopefully the surveys will cause the salesperson to realize they are above no one and that they actually have to work and-get this-treat people with respect and give them quality service in order to make a living.
The mere thought of a salesperson trying to "make it right" by offering you a "free car detail" or "loaner" is even more deplorable. These "services" cost the salesperson/dealership nothing and are mediocre at best and only serve to slap the customer in the face.
I mean if you are going to "offer" something for my hardships, at least make it respectable and comparable to the hardships I have experienced. You disrespect me and expect to settle it with a cheap carwash?
Besides, how can a salesperson "make it right" when he was trying to rip you off and was giving you an attitude from the moment you walked in the door?
The only way to "make it right" in thoses cases is to hit the salesperson/dealership where it hurts them the most: their pocketbooks.
It's a tough world out there and if you want my money you are going to have to get off your a$$, especially when I am going to spend more than $100,000 on a vehicle.
Last edited by Mr. Xristo; 01-02-2004 at 11:22 AM.
01-02-2004, 01:56 PM
#36
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2013 S550
Well, here’s my latest service experience, and since it involves a service evaluation, I thought I’d post it in this thread.
When I picked up my replacement E500 on 7/24/2003, the Keyless Go did not work. It took a couple of visits, but it was fixed within 30 days – however, it only worked with one key. I returned in September to have the new key programmed (it took 3 weeks to get the order!) and at the same time have the Lo Jack installed. (Even that took a threat to the Finance guy, who gave me the run-around for a month, saying that MB was “unclear” on how to handle the Lo Jack transfer…)
When they tried to program the new key, I was told that it would not take the 2nd phase. They discovered that the key was not the correct one and they would have to order another. Plus, the Lo Jack installer broke the small plastic cover that covers the carpet/door-sill intersection. I was told that a new one was ordered and they would call me when they had both the key and the plastic cover.
I had not heard anything by early November, and I called on a Tuesday to ask what was going on. My Service Advisor said he’d have to check and call me back. I was out the rest of the day, but asked that he call me by the end of the week as I was leaving town. I never heard anything.
So, I called on 12/31 and said it was time to deal with these issues. Plus, the infamous ticking sound had appeared (I have ~5000 miles) and I needed the motor mounts replaced. We agreed I’d bring it in today (1/2/2004), but since they were a week behind on loaners, I’d probably have to settle for a ride home and no loaner.
I went in this morning about 7:30 AM and proceeded to lay out the history of this problem. He maintained that he never called me back because I was out of town. He also claimed that he had called the Lo Jack folks twice since 12/31, but no one returned his call.
I proceeded to say that MB had sent me an evaluation form for the September service, but I had not returned it as yet because the issue remained unresolved. MB did call me and ask about the service, and I told them what had happened. They suggested I go to the Service Manager, and they would follow up with me later to see how things turned out.
I told my SA that we had to get this resolved quickly if he wanted to get a satisfactory evaluation. He responded that if I gave anything less than excellent, it cost him $2,000. The way service evaluations are handled (according to him), there are only two categories: (1) Excellent and (2) Anything Else.
I said if he wanted Excellent, he would really have to show me something significant.
First, he said he’d get me a loaner car, even if it had to be his. (Ha!) While there were a string of Camry’s being given out to the folks dropping off their cars, somehow I got a C230. Then, about an hour ago I get a call from him. I would not have to wait for them to order another key. Somehow the “faulty” key that could not be programmed in September was taking the programming was almost fully programmed now. And, as soon as the engine cools off, they’ll replace the motor mounts. Finally, they did locate the plastic panel in New Jersey and will have it there by Tuesday. They decided they could deal with Lo Jack directly to recover their money.
It’s amazing to me that you have to have some sort of leverage to hold over their head just to get the level of service that should have been provided in the first place!
When I picked up my replacement E500 on 7/24/2003, the Keyless Go did not work. It took a couple of visits, but it was fixed within 30 days – however, it only worked with one key. I returned in September to have the new key programmed (it took 3 weeks to get the order!) and at the same time have the Lo Jack installed. (Even that took a threat to the Finance guy, who gave me the run-around for a month, saying that MB was “unclear” on how to handle the Lo Jack transfer…)
When they tried to program the new key, I was told that it would not take the 2nd phase. They discovered that the key was not the correct one and they would have to order another. Plus, the Lo Jack installer broke the small plastic cover that covers the carpet/door-sill intersection. I was told that a new one was ordered and they would call me when they had both the key and the plastic cover.
I had not heard anything by early November, and I called on a Tuesday to ask what was going on. My Service Advisor said he’d have to check and call me back. I was out the rest of the day, but asked that he call me by the end of the week as I was leaving town. I never heard anything.
So, I called on 12/31 and said it was time to deal with these issues. Plus, the infamous ticking sound had appeared (I have ~5000 miles) and I needed the motor mounts replaced. We agreed I’d bring it in today (1/2/2004), but since they were a week behind on loaners, I’d probably have to settle for a ride home and no loaner.
I went in this morning about 7:30 AM and proceeded to lay out the history of this problem. He maintained that he never called me back because I was out of town. He also claimed that he had called the Lo Jack folks twice since 12/31, but no one returned his call.
I proceeded to say that MB had sent me an evaluation form for the September service, but I had not returned it as yet because the issue remained unresolved. MB did call me and ask about the service, and I told them what had happened. They suggested I go to the Service Manager, and they would follow up with me later to see how things turned out.
I told my SA that we had to get this resolved quickly if he wanted to get a satisfactory evaluation. He responded that if I gave anything less than excellent, it cost him $2,000. The way service evaluations are handled (according to him), there are only two categories: (1) Excellent and (2) Anything Else.
I said if he wanted Excellent, he would really have to show me something significant.
First, he said he’d get me a loaner car, even if it had to be his. (Ha!) While there were a string of Camry’s being given out to the folks dropping off their cars, somehow I got a C230. Then, about an hour ago I get a call from him. I would not have to wait for them to order another key. Somehow the “faulty” key that could not be programmed in September was taking the programming was almost fully programmed now. And, as soon as the engine cools off, they’ll replace the motor mounts. Finally, they did locate the plastic panel in New Jersey and will have it there by Tuesday. They decided they could deal with Lo Jack directly to recover their money.
It’s amazing to me that you have to have some sort of leverage to hold over their head just to get the level of service that should have been provided in the first place!
01-02-2004, 02:27 PM
#37
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'71 Pinto
Originally posted by Mr. Xristo
People... Don't sell out to a greedy dealer or salesperson.
People... Don't sell out to a greedy dealer or salesperson.
01-02-2004, 02:41 PM
#38
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'71 Pinto
[i]It’s amazing to me that you have to have some sort of leverage to hold over their head just to get the level of service that should have been provided in the first place! [/B]
01-04-2004, 06:38 PM
#39
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Does anyone have the name + phone #, fax and/or email for the MBUSA local field representative in southern caloifornia?
01-05-2004, 11:30 AM
#40
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Come on, one of you southern ca members have had an experience with your local MBUSA SPOM (local rep). If not face to face, then certainly the name is noted on one of your repair tickets. Understandable if you don’t want to publish outright, then send through PM.
01-06-2004, 07:30 PM
#41
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Originally posted by rmeltz1
The problems are confined to surveys so they haven't hurt sales yet.
The problems are confined to surveys so they haven't hurt sales yet.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=56676
01-07-2004, 11:46 AM
#42
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moa4r
"pulling (alignment) problem...they just applied some fix to mine (and still charged me for an alignment ) and it made the problem worse...my steering is all over the place now and i wish i would've just left it alone. anyway, they're going to look at it again, but you never know with those service guys..."
abhansali
"Frankly speaking I'm finding that service is the biggest quality problem that MB has...they need to get all these dealer service centers whipped in shape. Supposed to get my car back today once again, last time they claimed to fix the parktronic and when they pull up the car and I turn it on, the whole thing is dead. I got pissed and told them, don't you even "turn the damn thing on to see if it is working"..The SA gave me some BS story about how complicated the electronics are, and the techs always do their checks.
Turns out, a wire was not hooked up, so there is no way it ever worked after the tech worked on it, and he actually didn't check it. They just changed the part, screwed it back together and said "I'm done". The SA acknowledged this and was apologetic, but this is unexcusable service.
And everytime you take it in it is a multi-day affair, not once have they given the car back the same day. I can tolerate the car having problems, even my Honda does, but I take it in for service, and by the end of the day, I have a working car again, no issues."
So, have they hit you with "give us a chance to rectify the matter before you submit your survey"? And if they fix it the second, third, or fourth time and give you free detailing are you going to give them the excellent rating they seek? Document everything, in detail, within the survey and make sure you reference your 'original new car delivery survey' date & file number (top right hand corner). Even though one is sales and the other is service it is important that they be easily cross referenced.
"pulling (alignment) problem...they just applied some fix to mine (and still charged me for an alignment ) and it made the problem worse...my steering is all over the place now and i wish i would've just left it alone. anyway, they're going to look at it again, but you never know with those service guys..."
abhansali
"Frankly speaking I'm finding that service is the biggest quality problem that MB has...they need to get all these dealer service centers whipped in shape. Supposed to get my car back today once again, last time they claimed to fix the parktronic and when they pull up the car and I turn it on, the whole thing is dead. I got pissed and told them, don't you even "turn the damn thing on to see if it is working"..The SA gave me some BS story about how complicated the electronics are, and the techs always do their checks.
Turns out, a wire was not hooked up, so there is no way it ever worked after the tech worked on it, and he actually didn't check it. They just changed the part, screwed it back together and said "I'm done". The SA acknowledged this and was apologetic, but this is unexcusable service.
And everytime you take it in it is a multi-day affair, not once have they given the car back the same day. I can tolerate the car having problems, even my Honda does, but I take it in for service, and by the end of the day, I have a working car again, no issues."
So, have they hit you with "give us a chance to rectify the matter before you submit your survey"? And if they fix it the second, third, or fourth time and give you free detailing are you going to give them the excellent rating they seek? Document everything, in detail, within the survey and make sure you reference your 'original new car delivery survey' date & file number (top right hand corner). Even though one is sales and the other is service it is important that they be easily cross referenced.
01-08-2004, 05:49 PM
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How's this for a survey tag line?
I can't see the point in trying to stand up to a ferocious giant. Even if I hit this behemoth with everything I have, I will do no more than inflict the pain of a fleabite on one kneecap. Not only will this fail to remove the problem, it will render me visible, and vulnerable to retribution. But I’m urging myself to use ingenuity. Wait for the right moment and then just tie the giant's shoelaces together when he's not looking!
01-08-2004, 06:15 PM
#44
Originally posted by konigstiger
So, have they hit you with "give us a chance to rectify the matter before you submit your survey"? And if they fix it the second, third, or fourth time and give you free detailing are you going to give them the excellent rating they seek? Document everything, in detail, within the survey and make sure you reference your 'original new car delivery survey' date & file number (top right hand corner). Even though one is sales and the other is service it is important that they be easily cross referenced.
So, have they hit you with "give us a chance to rectify the matter before you submit your survey"? And if they fix it the second, third, or fourth time and give you free detailing are you going to give them the excellent rating they seek? Document everything, in detail, within the survey and make sure you reference your 'original new car delivery survey' date & file number (top right hand corner). Even though one is sales and the other is service it is important that they be easily cross referenced.
01-08-2004, 07:15 PM
#45
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Yes, I have received a MBUSA survey for initial purchase, and each service visit thereafter. However, only received one dealership survey for service.
01-21-2004, 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by cte430 And this my friends, is the reason we can write all the letters we want, ***** about our cars not driving straight, radio's not working etc. They DON'T CARE !!! And with figures like this, who can blame them. Only when people stop buying their cars will quality improve. [/B]
I agree as it concerns off the cuff letters - especially to Halata. However, if properly documented this establishes a paper trail for recall. ...For audit! The surveys not only address the dealership but also the quality, durability, and performance of the vehicle. This is where the comments section comes in. By the way, believe it or not I'm now on the best of terms with my dealer. Hmmm, how could that have happened? I've had absolutely no repeat problems with repairs. All-season mats that were purchased a year ago were replaced to the new style with built in fasteners without question at no cost. All bulletins are taken care of without question. With every repair visit I receive a follow-up call from the dealer's shop foreman. Oh, did I mention that my dealer filtered through countless sales & service reps within the last year and now actually has people who are in the know and care? Hmmm, how could that have happened?
01-24-2004, 03:27 PM
#47
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By the way, please do not forget to mention this second fiasco - active headlights (1st was navigation) in your MBUSA survey comments section. Letters are fine, legal documentation is better.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=58086
FYI: It's important (to me and you) that I (we) keep this thread on page 1.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=58086
FYI: It's important (to me and you) that I (we) keep this thread on page 1.
01-24-2004, 09:45 PM
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'89 325ix
I find all this quite interesting to see the whole survey from the clients point of view. Honestly I've never tried to lie orhave the client give a 'false' survey, I've gotten %95-%100 on all mine, if they have a question or a complaint they can call me on my cell 24/7. But every dealership I've been at Hyundai through Mercedes does this, sometimes worse then the worst, and like at Mercedes here we try our hardest to make the customer happy. We're only number 2 in the country, and the reason we're not number one is that we slow down with the customer and take our time to make sure everything is perfect.
01-29-2004, 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by richard2725
We were told we could get upgrade for our 2004 E500 and 2004 SL500 in January when cars were ordered in Fall. That is now another MB hstory lesson. Calls to MB by dealer say in future. Discussion with zone rep says maybe 2005 and in the survey I just completed for MB (call from Powers Group) I said honesty would be a big help. Come on of futures is getting to be tiring. It is one way to sell cars, however I just spent 170K plus with MB only to have false promises. May it is time to switch marques.
We were told we could get upgrade for our 2004 E500 and 2004 SL500 in January when cars were ordered in Fall. That is now another MB hstory lesson. Calls to MB by dealer say in future. Discussion with zone rep says maybe 2005 and in the survey I just completed for MB (call from Powers Group) I said honesty would be a big help. Come on of futures is getting to be tiring. It is one way to sell cars, however I just spent 170K plus with MB only to have false promises. May it is time to switch marques.
Make sure to put your opinions and dissatisfaction into writing. Document it! That’s what comment sections are for. Both MBUSA and your dealer are at fault. MBUSA for the delay, and the dealer for misrepresentation acting on behalf of MBUSA - rate them accordingly. File appendages if necessary and note the date and file number (top right hand corner) listed on your initial buyer survey. Read this entire thread to get a proper understanding. Simply we must stop covering up the issues, matters, and concerns as they apply to both MBUSA and their representative dealers! Written documentation means everything, verbal promises mean nothing.
07-02-2004, 11:32 PM
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'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
I just came across this thread accidently, and I was surprised--no, shocked--to see that no one correctly documented how the system works.
The dealers are compensated by the their CSI rating and sales volume. A function of both. It is a CSI based version of the Detroit holdback. If you give them a low rating, it reduces the payment. And the sales manager, service manager, and general manager will view that as taking money out of their pocket.
And there is more. These surveys are not anonymous. The dealer receives a copy with YOUR NAME on it. So they know it is you who is taking the money out of your pocket.
If you give them low surveys they will try their best to get rid of you as a customer. Your next purchase attempt will be at MSRP or above. Service visits can be hard to get, loaners can be hard to get, and service times can be long. They can even refuse to sell you a car or service your car. If you are not a customer you don't get a survey.
Be aware! These survey's are bogus because they are run in a bogus manner. If the manufacturers wanted an honest survey, they would have to run their programs differently.
As a customer you need to view the survey as part of your relationship with the dealer, not an evaluation of them.
David
The dealers are compensated by the their CSI rating and sales volume. A function of both. It is a CSI based version of the Detroit holdback. If you give them a low rating, it reduces the payment. And the sales manager, service manager, and general manager will view that as taking money out of their pocket.
And there is more. These surveys are not anonymous. The dealer receives a copy with YOUR NAME on it. So they know it is you who is taking the money out of your pocket.
If you give them low surveys they will try their best to get rid of you as a customer. Your next purchase attempt will be at MSRP or above. Service visits can be hard to get, loaners can be hard to get, and service times can be long. They can even refuse to sell you a car or service your car. If you are not a customer you don't get a survey.
Be aware! These survey's are bogus because they are run in a bogus manner. If the manufacturers wanted an honest survey, they would have to run their programs differently.
As a customer you need to view the survey as part of your relationship with the dealer, not an evaluation of them.
David
