Oslo

From July 2004, SBC will be dropped. MB said that the cost was too high.

nyca

so that means its gone on the 2005 model?

the cost is too high? but the car costs $50K, where does this end, at what point do they de-content it down to a Honda and still ask $50K for it?

personally, I had always thought SBC was not a good place to invest costs in the car - the vehicle is capable of stopping just as well with a good "normal" braking system.

but, what are they going to put into the car in exchange? or are they just going to delete SBC, and increase profit margins on the car.

Adobe is even more correct by the day - buy a 2004 E, after that, wait for the W212.

Adobe

Does this imply that you have to buy a 2005 model to get normal braking? SBC is the one major reason I've held off buying an E211. I think the Board of Directors made a big mistake with it and now (for whatever reason), Mercedes is backing out of it.

BTW, if this holds true, I'll forget about buying a 2004.

Adobe

Well, I really hated the SBC because I knew my wife would complain about it from the day we got the car.

Since my next Mercedes will probably be my last one, I think I'd better wait and get a 2005.

nyca

i thought they had fixed the brake feel problem for 2004?

well, I understand what you are saying. But your next dilemna would be - if you wait for the 2005, how far away is the E350 with the 7G tranny?

But really, if they delete SBC, at least throw something else in, like the xenon lights as standard equipment. something on the content side, this is not an inexpensive vehicle.

MB-JIM

Great news. I sure hope this is so. The SBC certainlnly didn't impresse me on the E500. My 05 E320 CDI is scheduled to be built next week so I assume it will still have SBC. I will look forward to replacing it with one that has regular brakes. That will give me added incentive to get the V6 CDI or E350. Hopefully when I sell someone will prefer mine with SBC with its features rather than have it as a negative.

Adobe

I suppose that I look at taking out SBC to be about as wonderful as if BMW got rid of I-Drive. Just think of all the money you can save by being able to pop a new set of brake pads in w/o having to take it to a dealer to get it depressurized

Frankly, I would have paid to get an E211 w/o SBC.

Oslo

I do not understand you, guys. You will never know that you have SBC if you don’t manually engage it. OK, you will not feel the vibration from the ABS, but that’s all. The other SBC functions must be engaged by the cruise control SBC-S, or by pressing the brake pedal SBC-H. So what are you complaining about?

Adobe

Will you know that you have SBC if your alternator goes dead

Oslo

A second thought. I think you are mixing up the SBC with the BAS. Here is what SBC does:

SBC STOP

The system offers several additional functions besides a new braking behavior, due to its electronic brain: In stop-and-go traffic the vehicle brakes automatically, when the foot is lifted off the accelerator pedal ("Traffic Jam Assist"). It can be engaged under 10 MPH, using the the cruise control lever and switches off automatically at higher speeds. It remains active under 40 MPH. When engaged the instrument cluster indicates "SBC S".

SOFT STOP

Is not yet released, though few people are aware of it since Mercedes advertises it already. It might be released in the 2004 model year. In city traffic soft-stop supposedly allows soft, jerkless stopping.

SBC HOLD

A "drive-away assistant" prevents the vehicle from rolling backwards or forward when starting on a hill or steep incline. A firm push onto the brake pedal, and the car remains stopped, even when taking the foot off the brake pedal, until the driver accelerates and the vehicle begins to roll. When set, the instrument cluster indicates SBC HOLD. I like using this function and miss it when switching back to other cars. As far as I know it was first introduced in the spring of 2003 in the 04 E-class Estate and lateron in the 2004 SLs.


BAS:

Here is what Mercedes-Benz says about it:

The Brake Assist System (BAS), an electronic system by Mercedes-Benz, interprets the braking behavior of the driver and initiates the full braking effect when it identifies an emergency situation. This reduces the braking distance substantially.

Here is the engineering foundation for BAS:

Conventional braking systems usually use engine vacuum to increase braking capability. Instead of relying solely on vacuum power to provide effective brakes, an electric pump pressurizes brake fluid to provide power assist for BAS and the necessary brake force for 4ETS.

The pressurized brake fluid is stored at about. 180 bar (2600 psi!) in a reservoir known as the accumulator. From the accumulator the high pressure brake fluid is supplied to the hydraulic operating cylinder in the master cylinder assembly. Commands to utilize the pressurized fluid comes from either 4ETS or BAS. When the brakes are applied and BAS deems it necessary, a lever connected to the brake pedal releases varying amounts of the high pressure fluid to assist in stopping the car.

Here is what BAS does for you:

Most drivers, under normal braking conditions as well as under emergency conditions, start out with little brake pressure and whenever necessary they will increase their pedal effort. In an emergency this behavior leads many times to a crash since the car could not be stopped in time. Those situations require maximum pedal pressure from the beginning - if necessary the effort can be reduced later in the process.

With other words most drivers do not use the ability of the brakes to their advantage - BAS automatically corrects that. The system recognizes emergency situations within milli seconds and releases pressurized brake fluid into the system as soon as the driver touches the brake pedal. As soon as the driver releases the brake pedal, BAS kicks back into a standby mode.

BAS creates a much higher stopping force for emergencies than most drivers are ever able to generate. By doing so BAS helps to prevent accidents

Adobe

Thanks for clearing that up for me Oslo. Now I don't know what I want. I do know I don't want to have to depressurize the system to bleed the brakes or change pads and I do know I don't want to lose the brakes if there is some electronic/electrical glitch.

Oslo

You have two batteries. The power to different modules is provided by priority, where the brakes are the most important. It means that if you are short of power, sources that are not important (audio, navigation, phone etc. etc.) will be shut down before the power needed for the brakes is shut down. And if that ever happens, there is a manual system taking over.

nyca

it sounds like most people who do not like SBC, mostly complain about the "feel" of the pedal. It is certainly a very sharp piece of technology (so long as everything works of course).

that is my main point: for the price, this car should have some top notch technology in it. real stuff, like brakes, etc. not I-Drive or some "gee whiz" technology like that. so now that SBC is being pulled out, the technology edge in this car is shrinking, absent some other content. what's new and "cutting edge" in this car? BMW has the active steering and ARS features as an example, both get great reviews from what I have seen.

MB-JIM

It is the feel that I don't like. I wouldn't be surprised that SBC will be replaced with the system that they have developed for the new S Class. I read a while bacck that the SBC was too expensive for the new S Class and that they were developing a new system to replace it.

norb

My SBC feel fine. Very nice and solid. I think MB just needs to keep developing it.

michael10128

SBC is the one thing i dislike about my car.
brakes are very Grabby in slow traffic and in the US, we dont have the same SBC features that our freinds in Europe enjoy.

I would deal with the grabby brakes and crap pedal feel for some of the other features that Oslo mentioned.

10000_lakes

when I test drove an 03, I too felt the grabby brakes. However, my 04 was delivered with brakes that feel very smooth, and natural, without the grabbyness the 03 had.

LeslieRushforth

I have had my E320 CDI now for six months.
The brakes are excellent and also very linear, no jerkiness.
My wife also drives the car and finds the brakes fine also
I guess MB have now got it right as with many other glitches which plauged the car in the early days of production.

NEVER BUY A NEW PRODUCTION MODEL OF ANY CAR UNTILL THE MANUFACTURES GET ALL THE TEETHING PROBLEMS SORTED OUT.

Please believe me this is my second E320 first was the W210.

THE CAR IS JUST A DREAM TO DRIVE.

Go down to your local MB dealers and test drive one.

MAKE SURE YOU TEST THE 320 CDI you will be gobed smacked with it,s performance.

AND YOU DON,T REQUIRE GASOLINE TANKER FOLLOWING YOU

FILL HER UP AND FORGET IT FOR MANY HOUNDREDS OF MILES.

HELL ONA HARLEY

I second that.....

Kar don

SBC only costs MB 150 bucks per car, i cant believe they are pulling the plug.

Adobe

I'll bet they are worried about liability. It took Mercedes a long time to come out with ABS because they were concerned about liability. Since they aren't putting it on the S-Class, it's got to be more than cost that's got them worried.

Personally, I'd much rather have a set of those Brembo brakes that are on the W220 than SBC.

Fastbuck

The brakes on my 2004 E320CDI are perfect. I for one would miss SBC Hold and SBC Stop. I think they're great features.

As for costing $150 per car... in your dreams. Have alook under your hood at the braking system control components.

Oslo

Fastbuck

I still think we are talking about two different systems. The European SBC with Hold and Stop is not delivered on US cars as far as I know. And its the European SBC system they will drop. Can someone with a US car confirm that they have SBC Stop and Hold?

DaCeptak0n

I haven't been able to conduct the SBC hold and stop feature and seem pretty lost on this discussion. I just know that there is a big vibration for aboout 3-5 seconds and then goes away and comes on sporadically. I told my salesman about ti and he said they'll fix it come time for my service..

glojo

This certainly looks the case.

I suppose the easy answer as you have just mentioned is for US members to let us know if they can actually set either SBC Stop, or SBC Hold.

No doubt in your manual as well as my own it shows the picture of the speedometer with the 'SBCH' or 'SBCS' underneath the outside temperature option. If neither of these are showing, then neither option is active.

Can our US members just leave their vehicle in drive, on a slope without it rolling backwards? (without either applying either the footbrake, or handbrake). SBC H will prevent this movement.

Thanks for the information.

John