haim_gds

I've already post it in the Audio & Electronics forum but it seems after almost a month no one replays...


I had a very bed experience with the audio unit in my car, I've replaced the original audio20 with a AVIAN unit (a REAL piece of crap, as you can see https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...udio-unit.html) and now I had it and I'm looking for a better solution for the sound system. Basically, I'm looking for an android head unit for running all the day to day application (radio, phone, navigation, etc...) connected to an external DSP-Amplifier. No head unit I found have a dissent internal power amplifier, most of them have the same D-class amplifier chip for driving 4 channels at 30W.... therefore the android head unit must output the audio digitally to an external DSP-Amplifier. I've found some options for building my system but also had some questions and problems.



My main problem is selecting the right android head unit, I'm looking for a reliable android system (my crapy AVIAN unit spend tens of seconds switching between application and fully freeze once a week...) with SPDIF output (optically preferred but electrical coax output will do to) and connectivity to the wheel buttons. currently, the only suitable unit I've found is Joying SKU EU-JY-UO128N4GSN (https://www.joyingauto.eu/joying-lat...head-unit.html). It have SPDIF outputs and it seems like a descent unit with enough memory and CPU power. The problem is it a generic 2DIN head unit and I can't find a harness adapter for the wheel buttons. Talking with theirs support (which is not the best to say the less) I couldn't understand what CAN box will connect to the head unit, and even after finding the right CAN box how to connect it... All I got from Joying supports was was an unclear email with "you need to buy the harness adapter from other harness sellers. You can search on the aliexpress or ebay harness shop. sorry we also cannot help you on the harness adapter."

-Where can I find the right harness adapter? looking the net I didn't found harness for Joying supporting W211 CAN bus.

-Is there other head unit with SPDIF output that support the W211 CAN bus?



For the DSP-Amplifier I was thinking using PICO DSP (https://mosconi-system.it/product/gladen-pico-812-dsp/) that is 8 Channel D class amplifier with built-in DSP. It seems to be small enough to put near the head unit (I'd prefer that for using the current wires), do you think it possible? in any other case I'd have to put the amplifier in the back (where the original amplifier should have been) and rewiring all the speakers. Is the a preparation for the cabling? after all, the original amplifier was located there.



Thanks for any advice or idea.

robbieas

Steering wheel controls are handled through the canbus. My Android unit came with the canbus adapter integrated, but apparently some units have an external canbus adapter. I'm not sure if there is a language barrier or what, but they should be able to provide a proper canbus adapter. You just connect that to the two canbus wires and then your headunit can talk to the steering wheel controls. Here is how I connected to the canbus on my headunit:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...tall-help.html

I don't believe any of the Android units based on the Rockchip PX5/6 have digital output - so if that's a requirement a Joying unit might be your only option. That's awesome though, I'd love to send digital audio back to a DSP then through amps.... that fully integrated unit you link to looks pretty sweet. However I'm not sure you need to put it near the dash. My E350 came with the Harmon Kardon system, and everything is in the trunk. Literally everything.... the back of the stereo has power connections and an optical line that runs to the trunk where the receiver brains, amp (and all speaker connections), navigation DVD player, etc all live. So that's where I put my external amp. Other systems may be different however.

haim_gds

Funny, I’ve already write a response few days ago but it disappeared?...



Thanks for the link, robbieas, but I don’t think that’s my problem.

The Joying have CAN bus connector but their support couldn’t answer me how to use it, according to theirs sight it can be use only in some cars modules and not in general. I’ve asked them about a CAN box unit and then things got complicated…

First question: I’ve sent them a question about the CAN box unit, I’ve asked what the kind, where to buy it and how to connect it to the radio, that’s theirs answer.



What CAN Box I’ll need for connecting the wheel buttons?(Sorry, we so not sell the harness adapter, you need to search on the internet and buy one)

[img]cid:image001.png@01D72181.8FA19C70[/img]



What is the use of the CANBUS connector? (You need to ask for your harness seller)

The CANBUS connector on the Joying radio… is it for the 12 pin connector on the Canbus Box?

[img]cid:image002.png@01D72181.8FA19C70[/img]







Dear friend,



1) You need to buy the harness adapter+canbus box which commonly work for all your car model. that it will be workabel for our Joying model.



2) For the cable which on the back of the head unit. you can connect the "key +canout" wire which on the back of the head unit.



Hope you are noted.





Second time/question: I’ve asked again what is the kind, where to buy it and how to connect it to the radio, that’s theirs answer.



Yes， we have said that before we do not have the proper canbus box for you. you need to buy the harness adapter from other harness sellers.

You can search on the aliexpress or ebay harness shop.



Sorry we also cannot help you on the harness adapter.



I was trying to find the right harness for this module but the only thing remotely close was something from Ali that don’t exist anymore….

Does anyone know how to connect external CAN box unit to Joying radio?

If I couldn’t fit it in my W211 I might considering buying again some chins radio (hopefully not so crapy like my current AVIAN) and try connecting it with USB to SPDIF converter or Bluetooth converter to SPDIF (something like AMAS96) and use it. I’m a bit worry how a standard android unit will interface to 12 channels SPDIF output through USB.



If going this way, why not getting a strong 7” tablet with external radio receiver and just build me the right system?

haim_gds

It still looks like my main problem is the wheel buttons, so far I didn't found a solution for connecting it to the Joying unit. It seems like I'll have to use the other solutions...

1. Using 7” tablet with external radio receiver.

• I was looking for an AM/FM external radio receiver connected using USB but didn't found anything, what should I put in the search?
• I need a 7” tablet with analog audio input and (preferably) SPDIF output, what is the system I should look for?
• The main problem again... How to connect the wheel buttons to the tablet? using CAN box won't help me without software support by the tablet.

2. Using a standard W211 compatible head unit with enough memory and CPU power.

· What is the recommended system? CPU power is an important parameter.

· Is there an application that switch all the audio channel into USB or blue tooth?

haim_gds

Well, it seems I have a solution.
The head unit will be WEGONOW S8949 K7 6G 128G with Android 10, according to WEGONOW all audio send using SPDIF is controlled by the head unit. I intend using only the SPDIF due to its high signal quality.
The amplifier will be PICO DSP, I'm not sure if I'll use the 8 channels or the 12 because currently I have 8 speakers (2 on each door) but I thing also adding 2 more speakers in the back. anyway' I'll be able to drive the back speakers using the head unit analog sub output and a another 2 channels simple amplifier.

I'm going to order all tomorrow, hopefully I;ll have a working system in about a moth, wish me luck!

robbieas

Not finding that headunit with a search. Would you mind sharing a link? Sounds awesome though, I'd love to go digital to the amps. Keep us posted, love to hear how it works out for you.

haim_gds

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001121341221.html
I would suggest you'll wait with the compliment Its described very nice in the sight but lets wait until I install the real thing... I have a very bad experience with the AVIAN piece of crap.
Whats worry me is the ability to control the audio output signals from the head unit. After all, all the audio signals (phone, radio, etc...) must be route over the SPDIF and there some posts in forum.xda-developers.com saying its not trivial.

bobgodd

Well I know you said you had a bad experience with your unit, but I have a newer (android 10) working AVIN unit I'm trying to unload. The only reason I'm selling it is because I wanted to go digital out, but my new joying unit, while it does have digital out, has way more problems than my AVIN unit did. Personally I think the Android experience is better on rockchip devices, rather than FYT devices. FYT devices firmware is locked down a lots of functions simply don't work, such as logging into Google accounts, which makes play store and apps extremely difficult. The only redeeming things about the joying unit is the wireless car play works well, the screen is beautiful compared to my old one, and the digital out (for my dsp/amps). The digital out was the main motivator for switching head units.

haim_gds

Well... After my extremely bad experience, I actually paid double because the unit send back to them twice (assemble + disassemble + shipment + custom) and they claimed everything is in order (not mention the time I waste) nothing from that Chinese company will be put in my car,
I don't know if it will help you but there are couple of ideas for using your old unit:
-USB to Toslink optical and coaxial converter, If you can force the audio to the USB (most android unit support it) it will give you the digital output. ( )
-Check if your amplifier support audio over BT using an add-on like the gladen-pico (https://mosconi-america.com/portfolio/amas-96k/)

Also, you should read the replay for my question in xda.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/o...slink.3319239/

bobgodd

Thanks. That's a pretty good idea.

For me, I went with the Joying unit (already installed)because of the bigger/nicer screen. Their floating screen units are pretty sweet, and the 10.5 fits perfectly in our cars. SPDIF out works well also. The Joying unit has it's pitfalls, but it's less than I had with the AVIN unit. The AVIN unit had really bad alternator whine on the RCA output... but when I soldered RCA cables to the speaker level outputs, there was no noise. I then encountered noise floor issues, so I just decided to move on. But the canbus integration with the AVIN unit was flawless in my experience. The canbus integration on the Joying unit doesn't even work... Still trying to get support for that. Carplay works fine on the AVIN unit, but better on the Joying unit. AVIN unit supports aptX for Bluetooth, which is lightyears better than what Joying supports (only sbc).

They both have their plusses and minuses, but what sold me was the screen, and the digital out. I might look into a high quality Bluetooth streamer, since that's how most of my content consumption happens.

haim_gds

I've ordered today the 'K7 Ownice 6G Ram 128G Rom Android 10.0' today. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...c00BJigYK&mp=1)
Not chip but they put on some extras and gave some coupons so I feel satisfied...
you should read my post in audio and electronic... that why I skip the Joying.
I've asked the Ownice gay if there is support in aptX and he replay he will check it for me. Hopefully' I'll have all the parts next month and I'll start assembling it.

haim_gds

I've post it in the Audio & Electronics forum too.

I've searched in the forum and there weren't many discussion on this subject...

Currently, I have the Audio20 speakers, which is probably 6 speakers. 4 wide range speakers (number 4 in the picture) and two more (number 3 in the picture) twitters. 'Probably' because I tried peeking into the doors and I think I had another couple twitters in the back (number 3 in the picture). Now, I'm going to rebuild all the sound system. I was thinking about adding the front (number 4) and the back speakers (number 5).

The questions are if it worth the trouble and if its possible... I can order the Pico 12 DSP Amplifier for an amplifier with 12 channels but I was trying looking for the back speakers and all I could find was a second hand unit in more the a 100$, its shape isn't standard and I can't replace it with a standard speaker. I don't know if the front speaker is standard in shape and whets its diminutions. Another idea I got was to use the 8 channels amplifier for driving the doors speakers (8 in total) and use 2 mono block amplifier, one for the rear (it should handle a high power speaker with 3 Ohm impedance) and the other for the front (good quality but nothing fancy). Looking in some schematics it seems like the each doors speakers sharing the same channel and the twitter is fed through a high pas filter (actually a simple capacitor..), is worth using a channel for each speaker?

Did anyone ever convert Audio20 based speakers to Audio50? Where can I find the back and front speakers? that my main problem...

haim_gds

E63007

Wow, that’s the first picture I’ve seen of the Subwoofer Speaker attached in configuration with the two “surround” speakers! I can see the Subwoofer has two (+) & (-) terminals. My question is, since I too am gearing up to install HU>DSP>Amps>New Speakers, how do I connect one channel out to the Subwoofer! The Sub is the only Speaker I was intending on NOT replacing. I was hoping that I would be able to use 2 5” Focal Mids I have from a previous install, but after seeing this picture, I’m not so sure? I have 9 powered channels (Audison DSP> Gladen 4+5 channel) and I was thinking I would go either 3 way in the front, 2 for rear doors, and subwoofer. In order to power the Center and rear Surrounds, I was thinking I’d either use the Hi-Level outs from the Android HU (doing Center by using + L & -R ), this way I could set parameters of the 9 speakers first and then “add” use of those connected by the HU by setting levels much lower and by using the HU DSP to adjust! Or by employing the use of a Crossover, I could split the rear 2way Full Range speakers to pair with the Focal Mids set to a lower level.

After seeing that pic though, I may drop the notion of installing those 5” Focals as I do have the Rear Sunscreen that I’m a little wary of messing with? I do use it here in Florida and wouldn’t want to F it up! But being that I’ve rebuilt the Top engine and replaced all the suspension bushings, AirSprings, Rear Shocks, Brakes, Rotors, A/C Compressor, Condenser, Drier, Radiator, Power Steering Hi-pressure Hose & Pump & reservoir, Rear Main Seal, Transmission Valve Body Clean, Driveshaft Ribber Discs, intermediate shaft bearing, added 3.06 Gearing to the rear Differential w/LSD, engine/tranny mounts, shorty headers, I may be able to do that if I become so inclined. I’m just not sure if I could squeeze 5” Focals in there, if not, it wouldn’t be worth it!

I’ve had my eye on the new Avin Android 10w/64bit/snapdragon/4G ddr3 Rom/64Ram/Octacore, but it certainly doesn’t have SPDIF out! Not sure if it can direct sound output to USB>Toslink>Audison which would be sweet?!?! I’ve got some Stereo Integrity 6.5 for the front doors and their 3.5” Carbon(s) which will be placed into Valticar-Stuttgart Pods on the dash connected to the A-Pillars. I’m also thinking of which Cameras I’ll install as I’m leaning towards having an internal camera to record any invaders as well as have front view and parking rear camera, but any of the two way front/rear cams I’ve seen are too bulky! There is one 4”x3”x1.5” that’s out of China that looks cool with 180 degree rotation on both lenses, but the tech stops there with no option to upload any video to the cloud upon break-in, so what’s the purpose, if they’re gonna hit you, they’ll rip out the camera taking your tint off the windshield with it! So that’s my quandary at this point.

robbieas

It's a dual voice coil subwoofer. You can just run one channel to either coil, it will work fine. If you are unfamiliar with dual voice coil subs look them up.... you can run parallel or series and use both posts and double or half the resistance. It's been a few years, but I believe wound up just powering one coil because trying to run series to them would drop the resistance too low for my amp.

And for what it's worth, I've had issues with some rattle from the sub. If you remove the grill in the back deck you can see there is a plastic ring on the top center of the sub. It came loose from a combo of FL heat and too much ATL rap. I glued it back with gorilla glue, but after ~9-months it has come loose again and is rattling a bit. Without that rattle the sub is pretty damn solid.

E63007

My Gladen Amps both can automatically adjust down to 2 ohm, so I thought I could run them in series using one channel (+L & -R) thereby increasing wattage from 350W at 4ohm to around 500W at 2ohm. Not a bad result by running it in-series!

robbieas

I looked through all my links and can't find it, but I think the sub is 2 ohms?

gagan takker

Did it work as expected ?

gNasty

How did it go?

haim_gds

Like always, buying Chinese product means not fully as describe. After getting the unit I tried to put it in the car but the cable was for a different car... They send the right one a couple of weeks later but still, its not what you would expect baying a 750$ unit.
Over the last year I had many small but annoying problems:
-The display isn't bright enough, it useless in the summer days.
-It didn't detect my disk on key, solved after they send firmware update.
-The disk on key kept disappearing, I've order a new cable and now it work.
-The SIM card for internet connectivity doesn't work; at first, I couldn't set its parameters because it required technician code... after they send a video with the code (123456 by the way) it connect. A week later it stop detecting the network and it not in use any more.
Currently, I using the original speaker with the radio amplifier. I've got the PICO DSP but I still can't find time to put the car in the shop. It going to be expensive (more than the radio it self...) but the main problem it will take several days and that's a problem for me.
Its not a bad system, its quick and flaunt, but with the current amplifier the sound is no more than OK and nothing more then OK...

I hope I'll find the time in the next couple of month to assemble the PICO DSP. Promise I'll update.