bamberger_1

Presently I'm driving 2 W124's which now are coming into the years and I started to shop around to be prepared in case my cars may let me down sooner or later.
I thought the new E-Class W211 is the best car to start the shopping. A very nicely designed car, many great options to choose from, lots of toys and gimmicks. In order to find out how the car will be after a few years of driving I checked the used car lots for those from 2002 (I'm in Germany and the W211 was introduced in April 2002). I had at least 5-6 cars to try out. My decision is firm: this is not the car I'm willing to spend +60k$.
It seem that within MB the controllers took over the lead. Almost nothing of the famous solidity MB once was known for has made into this car. All the interior chrome accessories are just metalcoated plastic parts. In almost all the cars I have seen it started peeling of already after 2 years (from door openers, from the chrome parts of the console...) The driver seats have been worn out in two cars I saw after 2 years and less than 60kmiles. The icons on the most used switches were just looking old and worn. The lining of the roof and window frames just looked "cheap". The body panels like doors and fendors were almost "denting" just looking at them, so soft/weak. And the worst thing I experienced was half a gallon of water just juggling under the dash board (I only heard it when hitting the brakes), but then I also felt it when I was accelerating (really good) and the whole amount of water flooded the driver side of the car. It may have been that the drain holes were clogged, but still then the water should go somewhere and not inside the car, right? Maybe someone found out that this may occure only rarely and an additional drain hole may cost 5 cents extra.
The only convincing thing are the engines size 320 and up. Good that those engines are available in all the other series. And the series of my choice will most probably be the S-Class. There most of what I discoverd in the W211 is still not realized in the W220. Who knows what the W221 will be, hope not the above mentioned.
This is my personal and subjective view of the W211.

moa4r

your assessment is waaaay off base IMO; check out a new one or look for a well-cared for W211 and try DRIVING it, you won't be disappointed

ATS

Okay.. and..

DWP

Thanks for sharing. I disagree. My car was built two years ago and it is showing none of the signs of wear/cheap build that you describe, nor have any of my body panels dented from being looked at.

jprescott

Were these heavily used taxis or personal cars? My 03' is pristine.

BoSoxFan

I wonder if those cars were taxicabs (or some kind of fleet car) with a really cheap interior which is not available in the US versions. 60K miles in two years is a LOT of miles.

glojo

I suspect a worm dangling into the water from our American sounding German colleague.

Regards,
John

Sunny, windy afternoon in Torquay

BudC

Well, there's a lot of truth about the W211. I have a 1991 300E and I just bought a new E320. Every last thing on the E320 has been designed with cost in mind. It can't be compared to the 300E or other past Mercedes.

I don't know how long it will last but I'm sure it won't go 20 to 30 years the way a well maintained W124 will do.

We took the car on a 4,600 mile trip shortly after we bought it and I cannot fault it's performance one bit. It's the first Mercedes I've owned that handled as well as my BMW's. The seats are good for long hours of driving w/o a problem. The brakes are a little weird at slow speed but are powerful.

I don't like the transmission. In either S or C mode, it's slow to make a decision, can get caught out trying to decide what to do and doesn't have the firm, quick shifts of a well tuned W124 automatic.

The drive-by-wire throttle is another thing I don't like. The 300E throttle is (obviously) more connected, more linear and more immediate.

However, what are you going to buy? The new BMW 5-Series is ugly with a tacky interior. The dash is made up of bits and pieces and looks like it's still in the design studio where there are trying to decide what an integrated dash would look like.

Lexus are boring. I don't want an all-wheel drive vehicle or a front wheel drive vehicle so that eliminates a lot of other cars.

BTW, I'd planned to sell the 300E but have decided to keep it. We drive it about 90% of the time around town.

BoSoxFan

There is a large US military kaserne in Bamberg.

plocjim

Just coming up on the 2nd anniversary of my '03 320 and, with about 31K miles (50K kilometers) the car is in great shape - happy to say I've had none of those problems mentioned or any others - it looks brand new. After the initial glitches with the command and audio modules the car has been great!

Barry45RPM

Best car I have ever owned. Its my 1st Benz. They may not be carved out of a solid block of granite like they were 25 years ago, but nothing else is either. Cars have to be lighter so that we can go further on a gallon of gas.

As I said. Best, most solid, most comfortable, driveable, sporty performance car I ever had... and 4 doors, too!

weinschela

Having had two W124's (still have a 92 300TE 4matic), and an S class from 01-04, and two W211's (a 320 wagon and an E500), I think you are wrong to reject the W211 in favor of S Class. Sure, the W124's were built like tanks, but the 211's are far better cars and compared to the 211's the 124's drive like tanks too -- heavy and lumbering rather than nimble. And I far prefer my current 05 E500 to my formerly leased 01 S500. The S was a very nice car but too large for usual one or two passenger loads. And larger when trying to thread through city traffic, not to mention park. I'll take my E500 over any of my former cars hands down -- and that by the way includes an E39 BMW 540i that my wife still drives and which is still a terrific car. As for longevity, am I sure either of my 211's will last 13 years like the '92 300TE? No, but that car has only 95,000 miles on it, and I fully intend to get many years from the news 211's, both of which were bought rather than leased. I suspect I will get out of my daily driver as a matter of preference (just wanting somethingt new) and not because I have to.

BudC

Well, I guess Mercedes had to drastically cut costs to compete. My 1991 300E had a list price of $48,700. My new E320 didn't list for much more.

It seems that Mercedes started to cut costs with the 1993 model year to compete with Lexus.

The E320 is the first Mercedes I've owned where I assume I won't be driving it for a long time.

It's just depressing to have the difference in quality so brutally obvious with the two cars sitting side by side in my garage. I guess I do need to sell the 300E to get over it.

glojo

Thanks George
That would help confirm part of my suspicions.

Regards,
John

CALBenzo

I agree 100% with BARRY45RPM, except for the sportiness. This car is the most solid, driveable and comfortable car I have ever had. I love it!

Barry45RPM

I'm 54 yrs old, occaisionally have to drive the wife & 2 college age kids to the Mother In Law's to "celebrate" a holiday... to me, this is as close as I can get to sporty. A 4 door sports car if you will... quick, nimble, & solid. I don't even have to suck in my gut to get in & out...no head bumping either... Oh yeah, and good looking too, even though when the "girls" look in to see who's driving it, they go right back to whatever they were doing!

BoSoxFan

Ditto for me!

W210

I absolutely agree and will rather drive a newer MB over the older ones any day. The newer ones are safer in a crash, brake better, have superior performance.

Feels like a tank is not necessarily a desirable thing, I like a modern nimble vehicle with good performance and excellent passive and active safety.

adam3

Having owned the car for 10 months from the era you describe I TOTALLY REJECT your assumptions and opinion. My car may have only done 16K miles and is considered low mileage for its age since i have use of another, its is in excellent condition (both in and out).

I have had problems like pulling to left etc like most cars do....but nothing like you describe. The interior is still top quality and nothing is peeling on the interior. Maybe it won't outlive the old Mbzs but for the time i'll be keeping it will be in top form. I've seen used 5ers and they are in worse shape than my E...well they started off like that anyway....cheap plastics inside..what do u expect. No where is the interior of the E cheap.... If it was cheap why would Mbz remove options from later models....

BudC

But the question is whether or not the new W211's have been so cheapened that they aren't going to have the traditional Mercedes longivity.

I don't argue that they are fine handling, performing cars but let's face it, every bit of it from bumper to bumper has been wrung through the cost cutting wringer.

Of course if you are only going to keep the car for a few years (the majority of first time buyers) then it will probably satisfy most people.

It's like comparing my new Canon G5 digital camera to my magnificient Leica M3. The Leica doesn't have the convenience of the Canon but the 36 year old Leica will still produce great images and will probably keep on doing it well beyond the life span of the Canon.

Not only that but the Leica is so much more satisfying to use than the Canon. It's like comparing a fine English overunder shotgun to a Winchester automatic.

Barry45RPM

Most USA MBs (90%) are leased. Therefore it is safe to assume that they will be kept a long time by their 2nd owners not their 1st. Much of the cost of the MBs is due to the fact that it is built to much more "heavy duty" standards than other cars in its luxury class. My car has 10,000 miles on the odo, and rides EXACTLY the same as the day it was picked up. I can't say that for any other car I ever bought. I've always been able to detect softening of the suspension, a little less performance, etc. ... not here.

Is it designed to last 15-20 years like the old ones were? Time will tell... In the 21st century, in 15 years, 15 year old technology will not be acceptable to any car owner, so the point will probably be moot anyway. Technology changes much faster today than in the past, and today's state of the art will be "quaint" or downright antique in 10 years, let alone 15... and probably in less time than that.

BudC

My brother-in-law buys Cadillacs. I told him he should be buying Lexus or Mercedes so he wouldn't be forced to buy a new car so often.

He said he buys Cadillacs for precisely that reason...it gives him an excuse to buy a new car every few years.

It looks like Mercedes have now given me the same excuse. I would just rather spend my money on things other than depreciation and sales tax.

Maybe if Mercedes dumps the SBC braking system I'll have an excuse to get a new E-Class.

DWP

That's an interesting number. I've never leased a car because I keep them for a long time, and I had no idea. It would be interesting to see how the lease/purchase ratio varies between makes. Do you recall where you saw that statistic?

BoSoxFan

It's not that MB has declined in quality, other manufacturers have greatly improved. It was not that long ago that most cars had a one year warranty and even middle-class people would trade in their car every year because of reliability concerns. Most cars had 5 digit odometers because they could not be counted on to last beyond 100,000 miles. Now, Toyotas and Hondas and many others routinely last for 150,000+ miles with few problems other than normal wear.

Barry45RPM

Actually the 90% figure refers to the NY Metro area. It would probably be similar in FL, CA, TX, IL and some other areas.