JohnAMG

I was at a GM dealer this afternoon and got a chance to see the STS( with V8 performance package). Honestly I was shocked by the sticker price of $58K and even more shocked with the finishing quality of the Cadillac. It just isn't comparable to the new E-class in material quality and fitment. It isn't even comparable to my W210 E-class. I thought the C-class was just as good if not better. It has extra 20 HP, less torque, but it still doesn't justify the price. Now I am puzzled why would anyone buy that crap after seen what Mercedes has to offer. I was at the dealer because my ML320 lease is about to expire and I though since Cadillac did won the Motor Trend SUV of the year why not take a look. No thanks. I will take my Mercedes any day, even the ML.

John

Brav

wow... even an ML? Thats harsh..

AMGLAB

Someone might buy that "crap" because to get a comparably optioned E Class would cost $20,000 more.

Hal H

GM doesn't care about QC, as long as the keep selling those Escalades - huge profit builder for them (its primarily a pimped out Tahoe with a lot more MSRP markup)...the passenger cars just get slapped together with indifferance - the prevailing attitude seems to be "they customer will come around and buy another in hopes of the next time being better"

My brother had an '02 Z06 Corvette, and after fighting with dealer and zone reps for 7 months, they bought it back with only 1,200 miles on it...the final straw was the body leaked from the rear edge of the door back and the solution was to pull apart the rear body and re-bond all the parts - he said no thanks.

He even spoke with the plant manager in Bowling Green (they only build 'Vettes there) and he said they only QC every 10th car and left it up to the dealers in the field to correct problems. And keep in mind, this a car with $51k MSRP...

Green E-300 DT

An ML? Possibly the worst MBZ ever bearing the margue? And you talk about build quality?

Did you drive the STS? No? I thought so.
Had you bothered to go for a test drive, you'd have found out how much better the STS is with either the
luxury performance or premium luxury performance packages are then either the E or S class MBZ.

The Caddy STS with the performance luxury package has options available that are not even offered on the S let only the E classes. The most that the sticker would be is about $65K: They can be had for much less!
That includes every option available including the option paint and oversize (17") brake option and high performance (18") tires

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't let your prejudice for the Benz overrule common sense.

Given the poor build quality of the current MBZ cars, and the way the dealers are treating customers that made the mistake of buying one lately, I'd say it kind of like the stove calling the kettle black!

codex57

I gotta go check out this STS. Everytime I open the door to my E, I marvel at some of the cheap parts Mercedes used. We have a 2000 Dodge Caravan we bought new for $13000 that still has a higher quality door handle. Mercedes isn't all that in the quality department right now. Our old 85 S class was much better overall quality wise.

SAguirre

What kind of Dodge Caravan did you buy new for 13K??? Did it bring tires?

I think that too many people here are getting too emotional about other people's opinions.

I have had American, Jap., Germ. cars. I personally prefer the German cars. My oldest MB was a 1988, it did seem more solid (like a fridge from 1950). Aside from those people who have had just plain old back luck with their MBs I still think that they are very well built cars. So far, my 04 E320 4Matic has been better than my last two MBs.

On the other hand, our 1986 Plymouth Voyager (that cost $15k) was the best Chrysler product we ever had. It only needed 4 power window regulators, two fuel pumps, one water pump two A/C units and one trany in 100k miles. Our 1994 was a total disaster from day ONE (too many problems to list within 56k miles). Our 1998 Dodge Caravan has been more like the 94 than the 86, after 40k miles, we have had a bunch of problems (AC evaporator 2 times, Airbags malfunction, rear brakes warp for no reason. . . ). My family still likes their minivans, but I can't say that they are that good.

I can only speak from personal experience, my MBs have been great cars and this 2004 E is no worse.

Now back to Cadillac. My family has owned about 20 Cadillacs in the past 30 years. Starting in the Mid 80s until the mid 90s they went downhill so much and their service was so bad that we all gave up on them. I would not believe that they could have gotten any worse, so I am sure that they are a good car, but I have been burned by Cadillac and I have only been treated well by Mercedes.

I don't expect to change anyone's opinion, I am just stating mine.

Steve

codex57

New 2000 Dodge Caravan. Base with no options. MSRP was almost $18000. Problem was it's a domestic. Also, it's a base model (4 cyl engine, 3 speed auto). Finally, a redesigned Caravan was about to be at dealers in a month or so. That adds up to a smoking deal. It was one of those cars dealers advertise in the newspapers to draw customers in. Great way to buy cars. Just show up at 8am on a Friday when they open and they can't claim they've sold it. My family and friends have bought tons of cars this way. Never seen any of the German luxury brands advertise like this though unfortunately. Just the regular brands and domestic luxury brands. There's always a Lincoln Navigator or Aviator on sale for over $10,000 off msrp in the newspaper every week.

JohnAMG

As you stated I am entitled to my opinion. Why would I bother to test drive the car if it doesn't even pass my initial impression. I am sure it will out accelerate the E-class but sitting in a pile of cheaply assembled plastic is not my objective. I have owned numerous Mercedes, even the ML, and I must say my experience so far has been great. I understand current Mercedes has cheapen and lower quality parts but it is still significantly better than the Cadillac. Again this is my observation and anyone is welcome to disagree. I don't not limit my choices only to Mercedes. My next SUV could be a Lexus or Infiniti, and god forbid we may even consider a minivan because of 2 children.


BTW, I do own couple of AMGs' and of course the infamous ML too. Therefore I considered myself a pretty good source when talking about Mercedes.

John

SAguirre

I see then how you got such a good price on the Caravan. I guess if you actually hold the dealler to the fire and can put up with the car they are offering for that price that would be a really great deal. I just need certain options, I guess I am spoiled at this time. BUt 13K for a new 2000 Caravan is really something to consider and I guess that is why you bought it.

I still love Mercedes Bs and I think that their quality is not bad. Considering how much new tch. is being introduced to the cars, they are doing great. But this is coming from a person who has never had a problem that was not fixed promptly by the MB dealer. I just hope I wam not cursing myslelf here.

Steve

topspin4hand

I agree w/ SAguire that people are getting a little too sensitive. About Caddys, I know a few guys that have used their hard earned dollars to buy a Cadillac Escalade and it was no where near the value of what a $50,000 vehicle should be. All of them remark positively and enviously about my car.

I didn't the STS cost so much! Is this the car in that commercial with Black E Class and BMW 5 series? I don't doubt that the car may be a good value but it would slightly annoy me if people presumed the car I was driving costs lower than what I paid. I hope the STS turns out to be a good car. More comp for MB, and they respond accordingly.

LIONHEAD

There are always going to be those who will only buy "American" and thus will always prefer Caddy over any imports....I've learned that quickly when I had my C5 and talking to peeps at Vette shows. My co-worker has a 2002 STS and it's not bad but I prefer my plastic dash over his. :p

benzboy

Caddy STS; see it, drive it, hate it!

Fast55

A new loaded STS stickers at about 60K, and that's not even the AWD model. My neighbor would be happy to trade his 6 mo. old Caddy for my 2 1/2 yr. old E55. It was great new, but he's had it in at least 5 times in those 6 months. It's already a rattle trap! Hate to see what it's like in 2 1/2 yrs! He was pissed to find out he could have bought an E500 for about the same money!

jago1244

i believe even the US cars are still a step behind the euros. somewhere, i dont recall, i read an interesting article about how an automaker can make a big mistake by 'benchmarking' the competition's product. this puts the mfr at a disadvantage as they simply copy and compete with last generation of superior competition. it stifles innovation, and the 'front-running' competitors are at the same time creating newer, more advanced product. i would bet this is a problem for GM as they probably tore up old e39 5-series to create the STS. meanwhile bmw and mb have moved on..it is a nice car to sit in, but feels more 1990's in interior style. also check out new ford 500 or whatever. looks like '99 passat.
j.

DavidNJ

Cadillac is using exterior and interior styling that can seem harsh and inpersonal. They have improved materials a bit. Still seem tacky in places.

MB is sliding in some aspects, in others they do seem ok. Their plastics seem better than BMW now. However than is mainly due to BMW backsliding.

Jaguar may be close to the head of the class on material now. Maybe even leading.

Need to see the new Audi A6, Infiniti M45, and Lexus GS to see where MB really stands.

David

Ormond2004

I drove the STS and found it rather nice. The Bose sound system is incredible and the front seats were very comfortable. The remote start is standard as is rear park assist. Who knows what depreciation will be?

However, I only see retired folks driving Cadillacs here, and our local dealership is a dump.