Car & Driver Luxo Sedan comparo: E-Class finishes last?
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Car & Driver Luxo Sedan comparo: E-Class finishes last?
I'm obviously not the biggest W212 advocate (styling wise, I can personally attest to the top notch engineering), but this is kind of 
. A brand new, first year E-Class getting put in last place? I take these comparo's with a grain of salt, but some of them are just a bit out there. I guess we know how big a margin C&D will place the F10 5-Series over the competition.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
. A brand new, first year E-Class getting put in last place? I take these comparo's with a grain of salt, but some of them are just a bit out there. I guess we know how big a margin C&D will place the F10 5-Series over the competition.http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
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OUCH!!!
Yes, it should've been upgraded with 300hp the MB V6. Just like everyone else is at pretty much. A damn toyota camry v6 and nissan altima v6 have 268 hp.
Ouch, I just noticed the new E comes with those damn SL style gauges. I hate those.
Yes, it should've been upgraded with 300hp the MB V6. Just like everyone else is at pretty much. A damn toyota camry v6 and nissan altima v6 have 268 hp.
Ouch, I just noticed the new E comes with those damn SL style gauges. I hate those.
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I wonder if they are using those guages for helping with sun glare reflecting readability, some people have apparently had problems with that, I never have though 
. Maybe it's because my windows are tinted. Not sure if the new gauges even help with that though, you'd think they should.
. Maybe it's because my windows are tinted. Not sure if the new gauges even help with that though, you'd think they should.
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I wonder if they are using those guages for helping with sun glare reflecting readability, some people have apparently had problems with that, I never have though . Maybe it's because my windows are tinted. Not sure if the new gauges even help with that though, you'd think they should.
. Maybe it's because my windows are tinted. Not sure if the new gauges even help with that though, you'd think they should.I've heard wonderful things about the 535i. I must say, I like the facelifted 5 series'. The audi's exterior never cuts it for me so I wouldn't think of getting that. The Jag has a beautiful exterior and interior, but I would wait it out for a couple of years so they get the bugs out. I like the M's interior actually, very comfy, but very big and bulky. In the end, I would take the 535i over all of them.
I wonder if the 535i is faster or equal to the 550i??? It's something to wonder about now. Why would someone buy the natural V8, when you could buy the twin turbo i6 if it's just as fast? I mean, if you tune the ecu, I'm sure it would beat the 550i.
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Wait 'till the F10 5-Series comes out next year, I think it'll be a nice evolution and refinement of the E60, and it should be a complete class dominator, especially since a lot of people/mags seem to favorite it (E60) still over the brand new E-Class.
Also, have the XF's been known to have quality issues? I saw one at the Dealer the other day, confirming my views on the car, it's pretty stunning all around.
For me, this test would go:
1-XF (could be the F10 5-Series next year)
2- tie between the E350 and 535i, although I gotta admit, the E's main appeal over the 535i in a battle between the two would be that I'm waiting to see what the F10 will be like, and I was never into the E60 5'er at all anyway.
3- Audi
4- Infinite
Also, have the XF's been known to have quality issues? I saw one at the Dealer the other day, confirming my views on the car, it's pretty stunning all around.
For me, this test would go:
1-XF (could be the F10 5-Series next year)
2- tie between the E350 and 535i, although I gotta admit, the E's main appeal over the 535i in a battle between the two would be that I'm waiting to see what the F10 will be like, and I was never into the E60 5'er at all anyway.
3- Audi
4- Infinite
Last edited by K-A; Aug 28, 2009 at 05:10 AM.
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Wait 'till the F10 5-Series comes out next year, I think it'll be a nice evolution and refinement of the E60, and it should be a complete class dominator, especially since a lot of people/mags seem to favorite it (E60) still over the brand new E-Class.
Also, have the XF's been known to have quality issues? I saw one at the Dealer the other day, confirming my views on the car, it's pretty stunning all around.
For me, this test would go:
1-XF (could be the F10 5-Series next year)
2- tie between the E350 and 535i, although I gotta admit, the E's main appeal over the 535i in a battle between the two would be that I'm waiting to see what the F10 will be like, and I was never into the E60 5'er at all anyway.
3- Audi
4- Infinite
Also, have the XF's been known to have quality issues? I saw one at the Dealer the other day, confirming my views on the car, it's pretty stunning all around.
For me, this test would go:
1-XF (could be the F10 5-Series next year)
2- tie between the E350 and 535i, although I gotta admit, the E's main appeal over the 535i in a battle between the two would be that I'm waiting to see what the F10 will be like, and I was never into the E60 5'er at all anyway.
3- Audi
4- Infinite
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If your a subscriber to Car and Driver like myself, you would know that they always place the Benz last or near last in every compario they do. The only time a Benz took first place was the GL when it won truck of the year. That article is a bit funny because if you read their review, it sounds like they were really high on the car, to the point of calling it the most solid car of the bunch. Guess it really came down to the engine and yes it needs a hp boost, but then all the Benz engines could use a hp boost to compete with the competition (the exception being the AMG cars of course).
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I think the W212 has the best interior of all the cars. I guess I could agree that in the $50,000 range the 350 has the weakest engine... but it a "BenZ" if you want a bigger engine spend the extra cash and get the 550... or better yet.... AMG
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fwiw, I think the weak spot with the E350 is the motor. The MB V6 just doesn't cut it. That they went to a V6 from the old inlines, is unfortunate, imho. Although I do realize why mfgs use V6s.
When I had my E350, the motor just started to irritate me. It felt coarse and unbalanced, like most V6s.
I should have followed my original instincts and got the V8. That was the big reason why I dumped my 2009 E350 for a 2009 E63 AMG, even at a bit of a loss to me. But it's been well worth it.
The MB V8 and the Boxer flat six (originally a Karl Benz invention) are two of the best motors out there, imho.
When I had my E350, the motor just started to irritate me. It felt coarse and unbalanced, like most V6s.
I should have followed my original instincts and got the V8. That was the big reason why I dumped my 2009 E350 for a 2009 E63 AMG, even at a bit of a loss to me. But it's been well worth it.
The MB V8 and the Boxer flat six (originally a Karl Benz invention) are two of the best motors out there, imho.
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But the 350 in our new GLK isn't a bad engine at all although it certainly can't rival the V8 550 in my parent's E-Class for overall power and smoothness. I can't help but wonder where C&D would have placed the M-B if it would have had the stronger engine.
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If your a subscriber to Car and Driver like myself, you would know that they always place the Benz last or near last in every compario they do. The only time a Benz took first place was the GL when it won truck of the year. That article is a bit funny because if you read their review, it sounds like they were really high on the car, to the point of calling it the most solid car of the bunch. Guess it really came down to the engine and yes it needs a hp boost, but then all the Benz engines could use a hp boost to compete with the competition (the exception being the AMG cars of course).
I say it's poorly written because it seemed like they just kissed the butt of every car, even the ones they rated poorly, giving some comments of course about what they didn't like, but mainly, they wrote some basic, good stuff about the E, then gave it last place, lol.
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Couldn't agree more about the Boxster (I assume that's what you meant), my wife drives one to work every day. A truly fine engine.
But the 350 in our new GLK isn't a bad engine at all although it certainly can't rival the V8 550 in my parent's E-Class for overall power and smoothness. I can't help but wonder where C&D would have placed the M-B if it would have had the stronger engine.
But the 350 in our new GLK isn't a bad engine at all although it certainly can't rival the V8 550 in my parent's E-Class for overall power and smoothness. I can't help but wonder where C&D would have placed the M-B if it would have had the stronger engine.
My 993 Porsche has a BOXER variant 6 cylinder motor. The very original BOXER engine was a four cylinder opposing with a central crank and originally patented by Karl Benz in 1896.
A V6 is okay but it's simply a compromise for added hp and space. Unbalanced and it shows. The previous MB (and current BMW) inlines were smooth and efficient.
Last edited by 220S; Aug 29, 2009 at 06:19 PM.
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11 W212 E350 Sport, sold 06 W211 E350
"Wait 'till the F10 5-Series comes out next year, I think it'll be a nice evolution and refinement of the E60, and it should be a complete class dominator, especially since a lot of people/mags seem to favorite it (E60) still over the brand new E-Class"
K-A that is exactly what I am doing, I was planning on getting a W212 before it actually came out, but am underwhelmed. I am "praying" that the new BMW F10 5 series is all that everyone is saying. I had a BMW 5 (E39) before my E350 and I must say the build quality and interior fit and finish were more durable - less rattles, etc. I like the ride and comfort of the E350 much better though than the E30 5 series and it definitely feels more luxurious. I hope the new 5 series does better with the interior design than they have on the Bangle designed 5.
K-A that is exactly what I am doing, I was planning on getting a W212 before it actually came out, but am underwhelmed. I am "praying" that the new BMW F10 5 series is all that everyone is saying. I had a BMW 5 (E39) before my E350 and I must say the build quality and interior fit and finish were more durable - less rattles, etc. I like the ride and comfort of the E350 much better though than the E30 5 series and it definitely feels more luxurious. I hope the new 5 series does better with the interior design than they have on the Bangle designed 5.
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"Wait 'till the F10 5-Series comes out next year, I think it'll be a nice evolution and refinement of the E60, and it should be a complete class dominator, especially since a lot of people/mags seem to favorite it (E60) still over the brand new E-Class"
K-A that is exactly what I am doing, I was planning on getting a W212 before it actually came out, but am underwhelmed. I am "praying" that the new BMW F10 5 series is all that everyone is saying. I had a BMW 5 (E39) before my E350 and I must say the build quality and interior fit and finish were more durable - less rattles, etc. I like the ride and comfort of the E350 much better though than the E30 5 series and it definitely feels more luxurious. I hope the new 5 series does better with the interior design than they have on the Bangle designed 5.
K-A that is exactly what I am doing, I was planning on getting a W212 before it actually came out, but am underwhelmed. I am "praying" that the new BMW F10 5 series is all that everyone is saying. I had a BMW 5 (E39) before my E350 and I must say the build quality and interior fit and finish were more durable - less rattles, etc. I like the ride and comfort of the E350 much better though than the E30 5 series and it definitely feels more luxurious. I hope the new 5 series does better with the interior design than they have on the Bangle designed 5.
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Now the S550 did just lose to the 750Li, basically because the 750Li was better in the mountains, i.e curves.
The GLK350 placed last recently.
Overall Mercedes do better now at C&D than they did just a few years ago.
The Lexus LS always beat the S-Class until the W221 came along. The piece of junk Cadillac Allante beat the R129 300SL back in the day, while they clearly admitted the 500SL would have beat it. Again it was the engine.
The current SL550 beat the entire class to place first when facelifted 2007 model showed up.
Mercedes with Car and Driver is a hit or miss affair, not an always "last or next to last" affair.
The new E350 on the other hand really does need an engine upgrade and if they were looking for sportiness then of course it was going to place badly. The W211 E320 that won had airmatic, which they loved because it could be made to ride firmly/handling better or cushy soft. An E550 compared to its V8 peers would have likely done better, if not winning.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; Aug 31, 2009 at 02:42 AM.
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Not true at all. S550 placed first compared to the whole field when it was new, Lexus LS460 placed last. W211 E320 beat the entire class when it came out back on 2003, admittedly against all older cars, but still. The SL63 AMG barely lost to the Ferrari California, they even said that they couldn't really determine which was the superior car.
Now the S550 did just lose to the 750Li, basically because the 750Li was better in the mountains, i.e curves.
The GLK350 placed last recently.
Overall Mercedes do better now at C&D than they did just a few years ago.
The Lexus LS always beat the S-Class until the W221 came along. The piece of junk Cadillac Allante beat the R129 300SL back in the day, while they clearly admitted the 500SL would have beat it. Again it was the engine.
The current SL550 beat the entire class to place first when facelifted 2007 model showed up.
Mercedes with Car and Driver is a hit or miss affair, not an always "last or next to last" affair.
The new E350 on the other hand really does need an engine upgrade and if they were looking for sportiness then of course it was going to place badly. The W211 E320 that won had airmatic, which they loved because it could be made to ride firmly/handling better or cushy soft. An E550 compared to its V8 peers would have likely done better, if not winning.
M
Now the S550 did just lose to the 750Li, basically because the 750Li was better in the mountains, i.e curves.
The GLK350 placed last recently.
Overall Mercedes do better now at C&D than they did just a few years ago.
The Lexus LS always beat the S-Class until the W221 came along. The piece of junk Cadillac Allante beat the R129 300SL back in the day, while they clearly admitted the 500SL would have beat it. Again it was the engine.
The current SL550 beat the entire class to place first when facelifted 2007 model showed up.
Mercedes with Car and Driver is a hit or miss affair, not an always "last or next to last" affair.
The new E350 on the other hand really does need an engine upgrade and if they were looking for sportiness then of course it was going to place badly. The W211 E320 that won had airmatic, which they loved because it could be made to ride firmly/handling better or cushy soft. An E550 compared to its V8 peers would have likely done better, if not winning.
M
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I'm obviously not the biggest W212 advocate (styling wise, I can personally attest to the top notch engineering), but this is kind of . A brand new, first year E-Class getting put in last place? I take these comparo's with a grain of salt, but some of them are just a bit out there. I guess we know how big a margin C&D will place the F10 5-Series over the competition.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
. A brand new, first year E-Class getting put in last place? I take these comparo's with a grain of salt, but some of them are just a bit out there. I guess we know how big a margin C&D will place the F10 5-Series over the competition.http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
I have just test driven a 2010 S4 with the same engine as the A6 and let me tell you wowsers. The thing pulled better than my E500 and I mean not just a spurt but from 2500 rpm or so untill redline. The stock 30T engine does 333hp and very good torque also but with a chip the hp goes to 430 and that puts it above the E550.
The same for the 535i. Like most of us have said the E350 engine needs another update and quick. Audi will come out with a new A6 in about a year and a half and the new 5 soon and if MB doesn't improve the engine then they will lose more market share to BMW and Audi.
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If you look on that list you will see that the two cars that came first is with FI and I think in another thread I or we were saying that MB has to get back into the FI instead of putting large engines into the engine bay.
I have just test driven a 2010 S4 with the same engine as the A6 and let me tell you wowsers. The thing pulled better than my E500 and I mean not just a spurt but from 2500 rpm or so untill redline. The stock 30T engine does 333hp and very good torque also but with a chip the hp goes to 430 and that puts it above the E550.
The same for the 535i. Like most of us have said the E350 engine needs another update and quick. Audi will come out with a new A6 in about a year and a half and the new 5 soon and if MB doesn't improve the engine then they will lose more market share to BMW and Audi.
I have just test driven a 2010 S4 with the same engine as the A6 and let me tell you wowsers. The thing pulled better than my E500 and I mean not just a spurt but from 2500 rpm or so untill redline. The stock 30T engine does 333hp and very good torque also but with a chip the hp goes to 430 and that puts it above the E550.
The same for the 535i. Like most of us have said the E350 engine needs another update and quick. Audi will come out with a new A6 in about a year and a half and the new 5 soon and if MB doesn't improve the engine then they will lose more market share to BMW and Audi.
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I assume it has to do with the high costs of engine certification for vehicles sold in the US since it seems physical space and drivetrain connectivity concerns aren't players. There are additional engine options for M-B vehicles sold in Europe and some of them would seem to be good matches for the US market. But they aren't exported for unexplained reasons.
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fwiw, I think the weak spot with the E350 is the motor. The MB V6 just doesn't cut it. That they went to a V6 from the old inlines, is unfortunate, imho. Although I do realize why mfgs use V6s.
When I had my E350, the motor just started to irritate me. It felt coarse and unbalanced, like most V6s.
I should have followed my original instincts and got the V8. That was the big reason why I dumped my 2009 E350 for a 2009 E63 AMG, even at a bit of a loss to me. But it's been well worth it.
The MB V8 and the Boxer flat six (originally a Karl Benz invention) are two of the best motors out there, imho.
When I had my E350, the motor just started to irritate me. It felt coarse and unbalanced, like most V6s.
I should have followed my original instincts and got the V8. That was the big reason why I dumped my 2009 E350 for a 2009 E63 AMG, even at a bit of a loss to me. But it's been well worth it.
The MB V8 and the Boxer flat six (originally a Karl Benz invention) are two of the best motors out there, imho.
In my own test drive, the motor was fine for typical driving. The steering, not so much. Quite dead. For some reason IMHO the S-Class always steers and handles better than the C and E. With any other company the larger the car, the worse the handling. Not with Mercedes.
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Actually, the weak spot is the steering. Followed by the motor.
In my own test drive, the motor was fine for typical driving. The steering, not so much. Quite dead. For some reason IMHO the S-Class always steers and handles better than the C and E. With any other company the larger the car, the worse the handling. Not with Mercedes.
In my own test drive, the motor was fine for typical driving. The steering, not so much. Quite dead. For some reason IMHO the S-Class always steers and handles better than the C and E. With any other company the larger the car, the worse the handling. Not with Mercedes.
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Actually, the weak spot is the steering. Followed by the motor.
In my own test drive, the motor was fine for typical driving. The steering, not so much. Quite dead. For some reason IMHO the S-Class always steers and handles better than the C and E. With any other company the larger the car, the worse the handling. Not with Mercedes.
In my own test drive, the motor was fine for typical driving. The steering, not so much. Quite dead. For some reason IMHO the S-Class always steers and handles better than the C and E. With any other company the larger the car, the worse the handling. Not with Mercedes.
From what I hear the W212 isn't much better. Here's what they say in the latest MBCA's Star Magazine: "... the power assist on the steering seems excessive, giving the car a vague feeling on center, and limiting feedback on corners. We hope the engineers are continuing to work on this aspect of the car's handling." And that comes from the MB Club of America, who one might assume would be in favor of anything Mercedes.
The E63 AMG steering (and suspension) is much better than the regular E Class. Still a comfortable ride but steering is more direct (and better tires also help dramatically with turn-in) and now I know exactly where the wheels are pointed.
Add the hp and torque, and while you certainly can't enter a corner with the same confidence as in a lighter car (335i, etc.), you can drive out of the corner with a lot of available power and leave other cars in the dust. It's still not super crisp, but a lot nicer than my E350. The E350, while comfortable, was extremely boring.
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No, I meant BOXER. A Boxer style engine. The "Boxster" is a car made by Porsche.
My 993 Porsche has a BOXER variant 6 cylinder motor. The very original BOXER engine was a four cylinder opposing with a central crank and originally patented by Karl Benz in 1896.
A V6 is okay but it's simply a compromise for added hp and space. Unbalanced and it shows. The previous MB (and current BMW) inlines were smooth and efficient.
My 993 Porsche has a BOXER variant 6 cylinder motor. The very original BOXER engine was a four cylinder opposing with a central crank and originally patented by Karl Benz in 1896.
A V6 is okay but it's simply a compromise for added hp and space. Unbalanced and it shows. The previous MB (and current BMW) inlines were smooth and efficient.
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2010 E350 4Matic
E Class steering is over boosted and numb. My 2009 E350 was no exception. I hated it.
From what I hear the W212 isn't much better. Here's what they say in the latest MBCA's Star Magazine: "... the power assist on the steering seems excessive, giving the car a vague feeling on center, and limiting feedback on corners. We hope the engineers are continuing to work on this aspect of the car's handling." And that comes from the MB Club of America, who one might assume would be in favor of anything Mercedes.
The E63 AMG steering (and suspension) is much better than the regular E Class. Still a comfortable ride but steering is more direct (and better tires also help dramatically with turn-in) and now I know exactly where the wheels are pointed.
Add the hp and torque, and while you certainly can't enter a corner with the same confidence as in a lighter car (335i, etc.), you can drive out of the corner with a lot of available power and leave other cars in the dust. It's still not super crisp, but a lot nicer than my E350. The E350, while comfortable, was extremely boring.
From what I hear the W212 isn't much better. Here's what they say in the latest MBCA's Star Magazine: "... the power assist on the steering seems excessive, giving the car a vague feeling on center, and limiting feedback on corners. We hope the engineers are continuing to work on this aspect of the car's handling." And that comes from the MB Club of America, who one might assume would be in favor of anything Mercedes.
The E63 AMG steering (and suspension) is much better than the regular E Class. Still a comfortable ride but steering is more direct (and better tires also help dramatically with turn-in) and now I know exactly where the wheels are pointed.
Add the hp and torque, and while you certainly can't enter a corner with the same confidence as in a lighter car (335i, etc.), you can drive out of the corner with a lot of available power and leave other cars in the dust. It's still not super crisp, but a lot nicer than my E350. The E350, while comfortable, was extremely boring.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Sep 4, 2009 at 11:12 PM.
