BMW 525D Europe Drive Write-Up
06-13-2010, 10:10 PM
#1
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BMW 525D Europe Drive Write-Up
Hey guys,
Recently got back from Europe and wanted to take the time write down some thoughts on my experience in a BMW 525Dm. The thing was brand new, spent two weeks in it, and drove from Nice, France, to Paris and back with my fiance.
Again, these are just my thoughts, and just wanted to share my experience.
Best,
Chris
Observations – BMW 5 Series
Transmission – Great shifting qualities. Smooth, 8-gear. Downside of quick down-shifting is the inability to cancel the shift when braking for a red light that suddenly changes to green. When in sport mode, the lever’s forward movement for down-shifting and rear-ward movement for up-shifting is counter-intuitive. Shifting from reverse to drive is also very annoying due to the programming requirements of the use of both the shift-lock and brake pedal. Under quick forward reverse forward situations, the system dangerously impedes one’s ability to execute the maneuver quickly. Furthermore, the transmission locks up if the door is cracked-open at all. This is not very user friendly when trying to park in tight locations where opening the door is the best way to see how close you are to nearby obstacles.
Steering – Heavy under-steer under 80 mph, mild under-steer from 80 to 160 mph. Steering is unnecessarily heavy and turning radius is drastically larger than the comparable E-Class. Under banked curves and spirited driving, the steering is so tight that you do not feel the road – it is completely numb and heavy. The car feels like it is being thrown out of the turn even though the tires don’t lose grip. The chassis is just too stiff and steering too heavy.
Suspension – Furthermore, the chassis is extremely rigid with very heavy and tight steering, but the suspension, even in sport+ mode with EDC (sp?) disengaged, is not able to reliably and predicatively communicate that back to the driver through the hands. The suspension cannot handle the forces that the steering geometry and tires are innately designed to handle. The result is a twitchy and unpredictable car when pushed to the limit. The nose feels very light under hard acceleration out of turns. At high speeds, though, the car is extremely stable.
Ergonomics – Overall, the car is extremely quiet and comfortable. Unfortunately, there were some nuances that drove me crazy. The front seats were great, even on the way to and from Paris from Nice (900 miles). Pedal placement is great, with the brake pedal not too far nor too close to the gas pedal. I did not like, however, the placement and selection of the various controls throughout the cabin. Getting in without having studied the users manual, it was very distracting to try to figure out how to execute common tasks. From the small screen in the instrument cluster to the steering wheel controls, multimedia controls, a/c controls and active cruise control system, there didn’t seem to be much thought put behind user-centered design, a Mercedes strength, nor a clear layout. The sunroof was annoying as well, as the sun shade must be somewhat opened when it is cracked-open due to the lack of venting ducts. At night, the ambient lighting in the rear is un-adjustable and shines directly into the face of the middle rear occupant.
Media – The sound system was rather good, with crisp highs, and descent lows although clarity was lacking from the subwoofer components. Controls and interface were very hard to get used to and much too complicated for non-distracting use while driving. Graphic quality was good but the navigation gets confused very easily and is not clear on what to do in junctions which have multiple avenues. Even on full zoom it was still unclear what to do, resulting in several unnecessary moments of going the wrong way. Playing cd’s was very slow and took forever to load and scroll through tracks. Radio reception was not great either. Overall, the system was extremely and annoyingly laggy.
Random – Wind noise was deafening at speed with any window cracked. Material lining the ceiling is extremely cheap and really sticks out against the beautiful leather and dashboard materials (wood and metal accents).
Recently got back from Europe and wanted to take the time write down some thoughts on my experience in a BMW 525Dm. The thing was brand new, spent two weeks in it, and drove from Nice, France, to Paris and back with my fiance.
Again, these are just my thoughts, and just wanted to share my experience.
Best,
Chris
Observations – BMW 5 Series
Transmission – Great shifting qualities. Smooth, 8-gear. Downside of quick down-shifting is the inability to cancel the shift when braking for a red light that suddenly changes to green. When in sport mode, the lever’s forward movement for down-shifting and rear-ward movement for up-shifting is counter-intuitive. Shifting from reverse to drive is also very annoying due to the programming requirements of the use of both the shift-lock and brake pedal. Under quick forward reverse forward situations, the system dangerously impedes one’s ability to execute the maneuver quickly. Furthermore, the transmission locks up if the door is cracked-open at all. This is not very user friendly when trying to park in tight locations where opening the door is the best way to see how close you are to nearby obstacles.
Steering – Heavy under-steer under 80 mph, mild under-steer from 80 to 160 mph. Steering is unnecessarily heavy and turning radius is drastically larger than the comparable E-Class. Under banked curves and spirited driving, the steering is so tight that you do not feel the road – it is completely numb and heavy. The car feels like it is being thrown out of the turn even though the tires don’t lose grip. The chassis is just too stiff and steering too heavy.
Suspension – Furthermore, the chassis is extremely rigid with very heavy and tight steering, but the suspension, even in sport+ mode with EDC (sp?) disengaged, is not able to reliably and predicatively communicate that back to the driver through the hands. The suspension cannot handle the forces that the steering geometry and tires are innately designed to handle. The result is a twitchy and unpredictable car when pushed to the limit. The nose feels very light under hard acceleration out of turns. At high speeds, though, the car is extremely stable.
Ergonomics – Overall, the car is extremely quiet and comfortable. Unfortunately, there were some nuances that drove me crazy. The front seats were great, even on the way to and from Paris from Nice (900 miles). Pedal placement is great, with the brake pedal not too far nor too close to the gas pedal. I did not like, however, the placement and selection of the various controls throughout the cabin. Getting in without having studied the users manual, it was very distracting to try to figure out how to execute common tasks. From the small screen in the instrument cluster to the steering wheel controls, multimedia controls, a/c controls and active cruise control system, there didn’t seem to be much thought put behind user-centered design, a Mercedes strength, nor a clear layout. The sunroof was annoying as well, as the sun shade must be somewhat opened when it is cracked-open due to the lack of venting ducts. At night, the ambient lighting in the rear is un-adjustable and shines directly into the face of the middle rear occupant.
Media – The sound system was rather good, with crisp highs, and descent lows although clarity was lacking from the subwoofer components. Controls and interface were very hard to get used to and much too complicated for non-distracting use while driving. Graphic quality was good but the navigation gets confused very easily and is not clear on what to do in junctions which have multiple avenues. Even on full zoom it was still unclear what to do, resulting in several unnecessary moments of going the wrong way. Playing cd’s was very slow and took forever to load and scroll through tracks. Radio reception was not great either. Overall, the system was extremely and annoyingly laggy.
Random – Wind noise was deafening at speed with any window cracked. Material lining the ceiling is extremely cheap and really sticks out against the beautiful leather and dashboard materials (wood and metal accents).
06-13-2010, 10:48 PM
#3
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Too bad you didn't have the chance to drive one with the full sport package and Adaptive Drive. Then you would have experienced what the car mag reviewers (including myself when I drove one last week), are writing about.
I'm confused about your description of 'heavy understeer' and 'heavy and numb' steering and then 'tight steering' etc.. It's not clear to me. Could you not get the rear end out and it plowed forward or something? I found understeer to be reduced in the twisties compared to the E60. Probably a lot to do with the tires on the 525D you had.
Anyway I drove the 550i with Adaptive Drive so no comparison, I guess...
Yes, MBs have the best turning radius of just about any car out there. Mine makes even my Porsche feel like a truck. The wheels turn-in when you crank them to make a U-turn, etc.. Pretty amazing for a big sedan.
I'm confused about your description of 'heavy understeer' and 'heavy and numb' steering and then 'tight steering' etc.. It's not clear to me. Could you not get the rear end out and it plowed forward or something? I found understeer to be reduced in the twisties compared to the E60. Probably a lot to do with the tires on the 525D you had.
Anyway I drove the 550i with Adaptive Drive so no comparison, I guess...
Yes, MBs have the best turning radius of just about any car out there. Mine makes even my Porsche feel like a truck. The wheels turn-in when you crank them to make a U-turn, etc.. Pretty amazing for a big sedan.
06-13-2010, 11:22 PM
#5
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"I'm confused about your description of 'heavy understeer' and 'heavy and numb' steering and then 'tight steering' etc.. It's not clear to me. Could you not get the rear end out and it plowed forward or something? I found understeer to be reduced in the twisties compared to the E60. Probably a lot to do with the tires on the 525D you had "
I meant tight as in super heavy - no play at all, and requiring lots of force to actually move
and by saying understeer while describing oversteer, I meant that of course the car is geared for oversteer, but inputs to the steering wheel yielded minimal changes in direction, requiring much more force than a benz...
as I said, hard to describe but didn't like the feel of the car in the corners at all.
hopefully this clarified a bit?
I meant tight as in super heavy - no play at all, and requiring lots of force to actually move
and by saying understeer while describing oversteer, I meant that of course the car is geared for oversteer, but inputs to the steering wheel yielded minimal changes in direction, requiring much more force than a benz...
as I said, hard to describe but didn't like the feel of the car in the corners at all.
hopefully this clarified a bit?
06-14-2010, 02:03 AM
#6
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
"I'm confused about your description of 'heavy understeer' and 'heavy and numb' steering and then 'tight steering' etc.. It's not clear to me. Could you not get the rear end out and it plowed forward or something? I found understeer to be reduced in the twisties compared to the E60. Probably a lot to do with the tires on the 525D you had "
I meant tight as in super heavy - no play at all, and requiring lots of force to actually move
and by saying understeer while describing oversteer, I meant that of course the car is geared for oversteer, but inputs to the steering wheel yielded minimal changes in direction, requiring much more force than a benz...
as I said, hard to describe but didn't like the feel of the car in the corners at all.
hopefully this clarified a bit?
I meant tight as in super heavy - no play at all, and requiring lots of force to actually move
and by saying understeer while describing oversteer, I meant that of course the car is geared for oversteer, but inputs to the steering wheel yielded minimal changes in direction, requiring much more force than a benz...
as I said, hard to describe but didn't like the feel of the car in the corners at all.
hopefully this clarified a bit?
But I'm going to assume you are trying to describe steering ratio and not understeer vs oversteer. Most all cars have understeer built in so that the average driver feels a bit more stable. Historically MBs tend to have more understeer than BMWs. I'm guessing what you felt was to do with the F10's new fully electrical power steering which gives the steering a somewhat artificial feel (less feedback) when the front tires are pushed during hard cornering.
The new power steering combined with the optional Active Steer (which also gives you a variable ratio) can give the car a less than natural feeling if the computer doesn't get it quite right (esp on back roads) and the steering assist is somewhat unpredictable. On the track, it supposedly works perfectly (the variable assist, that is.)
06-14-2010, 05:56 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
No not really.
But I'm going to assume you are trying to describe steering ratio and not understeer vs oversteer. Most all cars have understeer built in so that the average driver feels a bit more stable. Historically MBs tend to have more understeer than BMWs. I'm guessing what you felt was to do with the F10's new fully electrical power steering which gives the steering a somewhat artificial feel (less feedback) when the front tires are pushed during hard cornering.
The new power steering combined with the optional Active Steer (which also gives you a variable ratio) can give the car a less than natural feeling if the computer doesn't get it quite right (esp on back roads) and the steering assist is somewhat unpredictable. On the track, it supposedly works perfectly (the variable assist, that is.)
But I'm going to assume you are trying to describe steering ratio and not understeer vs oversteer. Most all cars have understeer built in so that the average driver feels a bit more stable. Historically MBs tend to have more understeer than BMWs. I'm guessing what you felt was to do with the F10's new fully electrical power steering which gives the steering a somewhat artificial feel (less feedback) when the front tires are pushed during hard cornering.
The new power steering combined with the optional Active Steer (which also gives you a variable ratio) can give the car a less than natural feeling if the computer doesn't get it quite right (esp on back roads) and the steering assist is somewhat unpredictable. On the track, it supposedly works perfectly (the variable assist, that is.)
That's it! Thanks for helping me get the description right!
As I said, the feeling was just not right
Cheers!
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06-14-2010, 06:59 AM
#9
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Thanks for the write-up.
Looking forward to driving this thing once and for all.
I must say, I'm not all so big on choosing cars based on how they handle (pointless as it doesn't really factor into my driving style), however the W212 REALLY does handle so much better than the W211 in terms of steering feel, and composed chassis, that I find myself really enjoying that aspect more and more.
It still feels so great to take a hard turn in this car, as the wheel just so smoothly directs where you want to go, and the car goes there, fuss free, no effort needed.
This aspect has me now more interested in really gauging how the F10 feels, due to BMW's infamous handling powers.
Looking forward to driving this thing once and for all.
I must say, I'm not all so big on choosing cars based on how they handle (pointless as it doesn't really factor into my driving style), however the W212 REALLY does handle so much better than the W211 in terms of steering feel, and composed chassis, that I find myself really enjoying that aspect more and more.
It still feels so great to take a hard turn in this car, as the wheel just so smoothly directs where you want to go, and the car goes there, fuss free, no effort needed.
This aspect has me now more interested in really gauging how the F10 feels, due to BMW's infamous handling powers.
06-14-2010, 12:55 PM
#10
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They are a broker and give you a voucher for the lowest rental company that matches your requirements. My rental in Germany is fulfilled through Avis.
06-14-2010, 01:17 PM
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
The driving dynamics (i.e., the handling) is the only reason I like BMWs. That's what they are all about. That's the only reason they exist in my mind. They are close to 50/50 weight balance and make for a driver's car (and by that I mean tossing around in the twisties.) The rest of the car, well, it's not a lot different than anything else. If you leave handling out of the equation then it's more just pick your poison: MB or BMW.
If it that sort of driving means very little to you in the end, then by all means stick with MB. The MB shines over BMW in comfort ride with some sacrifice in pure handling and driver's input. It's always been that way. But if that sacrifice isn't noticeable or troubling to you, then stay with the MB.
And it's always a compromise between super handling/stiff chassis and less handling/softer chassis. Manufacturers try to lean to one side or another, or attempt a middle ground (which can become a compromise, like MB.)
fwiw, long time M3 fans complain that the E39 was a much more balanced and better handling car then the softer sprung E9x version. New BMWs are getting softer to appeal to more 'everyday' people and also have tremendous weight gain due to added tech conveniences and safety features.
I still own an E46 330i that drives like a front engine RWD sports sedan really should.
06-14-2010, 03:02 PM
#12
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Thanks! I thought it was excellent for a diesel engine...very quiet, really smooth, only power lag was up to 1750 RPM...
Other than that the torque band was really strong from 1750 to 3700ish...
Beyond that you had to short-shift in order to capitalize on the the torque of the engine...
I did feel that the car drank a lot of gas - then again, I wasn't driving Miss Daisy..
Did climb very easily to 160 mph, and super stable at that speed
Other than that the torque band was really strong from 1750 to 3700ish...
Beyond that you had to short-shift in order to capitalize on the the torque of the engine...
I did feel that the car drank a lot of gas - then again, I wasn't driving Miss Daisy..
Did climb very easily to 160 mph, and super stable at that speed
06-15-2010, 12:07 AM
#14
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Steering feel is really subjective For example I notice difference in acceleration and stability, but for steering feel, there is no difference w211,w212, or f10 for me.
06-16-2010, 01:27 PM
#15
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So just built a car on the UK site and looks like I did have a sport pack car and I had the new steering...that's why I couldn't get a feel for the car at different times..
I myself did NOT like the variable steering ratios..
The car was not missing a single option.
BOO for BMW (BM Trouble You)
I myself did NOT like the variable steering ratios..
The car was not missing a single option.
BOO for BMW (BM Trouble You)
06-25-2010, 10:48 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Interesting discrimination I found for Americans. If you trying to get booking from US located IP address you get 30% more expensive rent then you do from non US IP like Indian which was in my case. You can override a country of origin and see how rates got changed.
08-02-2010, 08:19 AM
#18
Member
I expect there are few rental companies that can provide an S class so you are likely to get Avis or one of the other majors.
Let us know how you get on, and have a great trip.
