Zinny

Just curious........

fromthebeginnin

This might give you some insight.

FTB

http://www.ehow.com/about_5039181_de...ed-wheels.html

Texas993

More traction in the rear. Stability too.

Zinny

Wow.....outstanding description. Thank you!

Dema

4 matic doesn't use staggered wheels, was it explained in the link too? 4 matic is stable already, so using same wheels give certain benefits as rotation and using same spare tire for any wheel?

Zinny

Will there be an issue if you have staggered wheels on a 4matic?

amdeutsch

Has been addressed numerous times on MBW.

Ninny link

hyperion667

without trying to make you feel like an ****,(by pointing to another blog and taking a cheap shot at you) there is something about it in the manual, I learned about this too, after I ordered a staggered set up , LOL, but I sent back two to exchange for the two correct ones.....
you're screw up the rear differential......

Live and learn you know??
We're not born with the brains of the moderators...........()
ahh shucks...........LOL

good luck

RNBRAD

I must of missed this. So a wider rear tire will mess up the 4matic? As long as you have the same tire circumferance on front and back I can't see where there could possibly be a problem with any width differences. Makes no sense.

Zinny

I found there is no problem. 18 X 8.5 with 18 X 9 is not an issue. Same diameter, you are correct.

hyperion667

okay man, time will tell.........

good luck....

Zinny

For those who read German, attached is the wheel service specs for the w212. Variant 3 (4matic) can use staggered wheels. 8.5j x 18 9j x 18

Arrie

I'm not sure I understand this post correctly but tire width or diameter does not harm the rear differential on a 4-matic. It could harm or wear more on the differential between front and rear axles (center differential) as different tire size between front and rear could cause more than normal rotation in the center dirrerential.

I think the staggered wheel setup is made so that tire diameters are very close the same though so there should not be any problem at all running staggered setup on 4-matics.

Zinny

Yes, that service sheet says it is okay or, as they as "possible" as long as you do not mix diameters.

amdeutsch

Ich glaube Du liest Note ** besser noch einmal.

hyperion667

You can only use a non-staggered wheel setup on the 4-matic. Otherwise, you risk blowing the transfer case due to dissimilar wheel diameters.10-22-2010, 08:59 PM
Hberman

You definitely do not want the bill of a blown 4-Matic transfer case on your hands.

With 4-Matic, definitely stick with a non-staggered setup. 10-22-2010, 09:15 PM
K-A

Hyper, since you are getting the 4matic and YES overall diameter is important, you can't get staggered setup otherwise you will fry your transfer case(aka differential). As a owner of a auto shop, I see this very often and their owners are . Please don't be one of them. 10-23-2010, 12:07 AM
KingOfire


pulled these from a thread I had going a while back, these are some replies.......
wasn't trying to be snide......that's just what I heard you know.....
there are a couple of comments from the sanctimonious mod that graces us too....

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-question.html

K-A

Staggered setup looks much better. But although it can be "intellectualized" and debated as to whether M-B is blowing smoke to protect their ***** in regards to not running a staggered setup on 4-Matic, it is what they very boldly say, and I think any of you guys who would run a staggered on such a complex (and expensive) system are nuts.... Or have major cajones. Keep in mind, if something did happen due to a staggered setup harming your 4-Matic system (or more likely, the poor sap who's future car you're currently driving), it wouldn't be Warrantied. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

RNBRAD

I didn't think there was. The only thing I could see of being an issue is if available tire sizes for the staggered fitment have a greater circumferential difference vs the same width size tire. Then I said to myself, it wouldn't be safe to have 5 to 6 lbs of difference in air pressure between the front and rear and what if you had new tires on the front and warn ones on the rear. I don't think MB would make a car that requires tires that are that symetrically critical. MB is always going to sway towards the conservative and to not change your car in any way shape or form other than the way it came from the factory.

petee1997

There are two differences in the 4Matic. 1st the staggered wheels and 2nd the tires are all season as opposed to the summer high speed tires that come with the non 4Matic sport package. Being from the great white North,wide tires do not perform as well in snow. I doubt that an extra inch of width on the rear tires would harm the transfer case. I think it is more purpose driven since all Canadian E's are 4Matic,reflecting our climate and driving conditions.

Zinny

Ich würde dem zustimmen. Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut. Können Sie mir helfen zu übersetzen? Ich würde es wirklich schätzen.

amdeutsch

Cliff notes:
Staggered wheel/tire setup not approved by MB.

hyperion667

thanx goderator

aeggroup

Somebody said on this forum, that Canada's 4matic comes with staggered wheels. Can somebody from Canada confirm it ? I know C class 4Matic has staggered wheels from factory and there is no any issues with that.

Zinny

That's a good idea. And I just called MB service (now that they are open) and they said that it is not a problem. Does not cause damage and will not void warranty. So, there is one data point. I am not saying he is correct.

Arrie

Perhaps we should start a new thread just for "4-wheel drive" discussion as it might be unclear to someone what it is and what the now-in-all-cars "all wheel drive is". Perhaps there actually is one but I didn't check. However, this staggered wheel issue relates to what I write below so strongly that it should be ok to post this here. Sorry writing is a bit long.

Transfer case really does not exist any more. A comment saying: "you can't get staggered setup otherwise you will fry your transfer case(aka differential). As a owner of a auto shop, I see this very often and their owners are ." is somewhat misleading as differential (=center differential) and transfer case are completely different things.

Transfer case used to be, and still is in some vehicles, a power output that provides power for the rear or front axle depending which axle is the main drive. Transfer case is a rigid connection, i.e. as it is connected thru a rigid coupling it is ON and does not have any "give" built in it. This is why these old fashioned 4-wheel drive vehicles all come with recommendation not to use 4-wheel drive when driving on paved roads. This is simply because just different load between front and rear axles change dynamic rotation radius of the tires so much that s speed difference develops between the axles. Without any "give" between the axles this leads to very high forces in the power transfer chain and that transfer case being the weakest link causes it to break first. This also means the tires wear very quickly and grip on slippery roads is not very good.

Speed difference between the axles against road surface means that an optimum grip can not be achieved. One of the axles wants to make the car go faster than the other meaning the slower axle is actually trying to slow the car down. Depending on load distribution you can have wheels on one axle going true speed but then the other axle is slipping slower or faster, i.e. no good grip. You can also have both axles tires slipping against road surface.

Above mentioned problems are the reasons why old fashioned 4-wheel drive system is recommended to be used only during extreme situations, like if you have so much snow that just 2-wheel drive will not make you move or you are off-roading on loose surfaces. During these conditions you will have all wheels slipping and force difference between axles becomes unimportant.

This all changed when Audi made the Quattro drive system in the early 1980s. Quattro, just like 4-matic, Toyota's 4-Runner and other All Wheel drive systems are all built with the same principal. Instead of having a rigid 4-wheel drive with transfer case they use so called "center differential".

Center differential works just the same way as normal rear or front axle differential does. When normal differential in an axle allows inside wheel to spin slower speed than outside when driving thru a curve the center differential allows different speed between front and rear axles eliminating big forces and loose of grip.

Center differential allows to have a true 4-wheel drive ON at all times and it really is an all wheel drive as all wheels positively pull the car in the same direction regardless of the wheel diameters.

If MB says staggered wheel setup is not allowed for 4-matic then in my mind it is not worth spending money for. It obviously is not built strong enough to handle just normal uneven tire wear.

The staggered wheel setup in my car is with 245/40-18 in front and 265/35-18 in rear. Front tire diameter is 653.2 mm and rear is 642.7 mm, i.e. rear wheel is 1.6% smaller than front.

Now, if MB says 1.6% wheel diameter difference can break their 4-matic system down and this is why they say no to use staggered wheel setup their 4-matic system simply SUCKS! You can get bigger wheel diameter difference by normal wear difference in tires between front and rear. Are they going to void the 4-matic warranty if you don't rotate your tires and develope too big diameter difference and then the 4-matic breaks down?

Big joke from MB side and if they say not to use staggered wheel setup on 4-matics then this tells me they under designed their 4-matic. They won't tell you this but reading between the lines that is what they say.

Tire width has absolutely nothing to do with all this, only the diameter.

BTW, 275/35-18 in the rear would bring the speed difference between axles to 0.5%.