Live Oak

OP

Considering the 550i, check the required tires, run-flats.

If you are willing to eat US$600 EACH at 20,000 miles, then it may be the car for you. However, that "free" maintenance looks pretty lame after thinking about tires.

park423

1. yes the E350 is adequate, but at 55K+ AND when all your peers have at least 300HP, not acceptable (talking about 2010-11 models) at the current 306HP, may be just enough power now. (main reason for forgoing the E350)

2. i still contend that the difference in the E550's power delivery, smoothness and quickness is felt at every mph from 5 to 100 over the E350, therefore noticeable no matter the style of driving. in KA's defense, this difference isn't likely that discernible after a handful of test drives in a dealers car and limiting yourself to residential or crowded city streets.

3. i also believe having more power can be considered a "safety" attribute, it about staying ahead of the curve and these days it requires 382HP to be ahead of the curve, HP wise

back to the op, i consider it a coin toss between the E550 and 550i, especially since the talk about the new 5 series is that it is softer in the corners than past 5's, either way, would love to have both cars in my garage.

K-A

I agree that in theory it makes sense, but in reality, it just doesn't really apply, IMO. There's a car low powered enough to be a "safety hazard", but even this 4-pot Civic I'm Renting right now, I don't think lacks the grunt to get me out of a general tight situation.... And sure, there are always freak occurrences, but I doubt many of them would see an extra 100 HP (which is only 100 HP at peak point in the RPM range) being a life saver.... Realistically speaking.

Regardless, more lives are lost than saved by higher HP, realistically. If you have 400 HP under hood, you have more reason and inspiration to feel it, especially if you're one who fiends power as some do. Speaking for myself, if you give me a car with 400+ HP, I'm going to want to experience it, which is the furthest thing from "safe", in theory. This is one of the reasons that I generally like to keep myself in conservatively powered cars.

RobbieRob

At 130 mph there's no difference in them both(E's), even if you push the peddle harder....lol

e550 87ss

Why in theory, in both situations the added acceleration saved my life or my car from being in an accident. The torque matters also, and I bet if you overlay dyno graphs you will see more power over the entire rpm range not just at the peak between both cars. You are correct that 270hp or so is adequate for the general situation, but its great to have that extra power during those freak occurrences.

More lives are lost by RECKLESS drivers with high hp, but do you know how many lives were saved by having the the extra HP??? So it's difficult to make that claim without empirical evidence and you would need an accurate way of measuring it so it's not really a debatable point since there is no supporting evidence and it would amount to unsubstantiated claims. Not speeding and being reckless with a high powered car is simply being a good driver...

So thread derailed... anyways as some mentioned RFTs as OE equipment, you can switch to regular tires, many BMW owners do. The maintenance plan is nice, since they literally replace anything that is defective or damaged. I had several trim pieces replaced due to peeling or broken clips, brakes, wipers, oil, air filter, cabin filter, brake fluid all replaced, everything free... You can't wear out your brakes prematurely though...

hyperion667

you guys shouls start a new thread......

ImInPA

Got Bluetec? Unstoppable and effortless power delivery up very steep grades with enough tourqe available to maintain current gear without kicking down. Enough said.

ImInPA

Well, not having the ability to resist putting in my two cents, here goes. To anyone that could possibly believe that the power difference between the E550 and E350 makes the E350 gasser any less safe in either passive or active safety, I say this: "put the crack pipe down and step away from the vehicle..." Is the E550 faster? Duh!!! Is it safer? Remember this, bigger ***** don't necessarily make it easier to run.

reckrab

Thats a very good point and to further illustrate it just look at the Ford Crown Vic police interceptor package. Similar size and weight car which is listed at 250 hp with 297 ft lbs torque. It boasts 0-60 times somewhere in the 7's and yet they are a staple vehicle of police departments, including highway patrol and state police, all over this country. A big engine is FUN, but only in very rare cases is it going to be safer. In 100% of all accidents more speed = less control and more carnage.

K-A

Exactly. Good example (Police Cars), never thought of that.

I maintain that 250 HP/250 TQ with 3500 lbs is the perfect example of "adequate", enough to do what you gotta do in real life. More power is just that, "More", more indulgent, more fun, more potentially *dangerous*, more gluttonous. Nothing wrong with that, but I stand by that most people, who drive conservatively, wouldn't notice too much extra power in the V8, because they would never call upon it. Park, I agree that you can notice that extra strength and smooth takeoff with the 8, but my point is that it's in no way night and day. The average driver probably couldn't tell the biggest difference, unless they were able to open it up a little bit. When I drove both back to back (numerous times), in normal driving, the difference wasn't all that paramount. However, when I floored it, the extra rush from the V8 became more and more noticeable. Still, not enough to leave much of an impression (differences wise) on someone like me who really never drives like that. If I lived with the V8, day to day, I have no doubts that I would start to require that feel, however.

This reminds me of the time I recently test drove the new Dodge Charger (300-ish HP), and the Salesman kept telling me to floor it, "get into it, see how fast it is". My friend and I (we pulled up in the mentioned GTR, btw) were like "WTF dude, this isn't a race car, I don't care how it feels when I floor it". Frankly, he freaked us the hell out because HE initially was flooring it, carving the turns. He actually took it to an empty parking lot and started doing DONUTS! Needless to say, neither of us were interested in that particular car afterward.

golfster

A lot of post-purchase rationalization from both camps here.

I was surprised to see on MBUSA that the 2012 E350, even with the bump to 302 HP, is still listed at 0-60 at 6.5 sec. Doesn't M-B understand they missed the opportunity to make this car safer by not making it faster?
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...specifications


And relative to that, did M-B miss the safety engineering opportunity altogether by offering a feature like pre-safe brake, when all along they should have been working on "pre-safe acceleration?" Hmmm...and why doesn't the insurance company give a discount for the model with more HP? How do race cars (and sometimes their expert drivers) succumb to crashes when they have ample HP available?

I don't really think the typical E350 driver cares so much about HP or 0-60 times, or they would have selected many different makes and models to satisfy that demand. For me, when I purchased my Porsches (Cayenne, 911 and Boxster - still have the Cayenne and Boxster), I opted for the "S" versions of each because I wanted the extra juice, not so much that they needed it and I didn't kid myself that the extra HP made them safer choices. To each their own. At the end of the day, our cars end up in our garages no matter how fast or slow they got there. Most of the top 10 selling cars each month are slower, even though they sell in greater numbers than the E350 which is slower but sells in greater numbers than the E550.

This may have been posted before, but for those interested in 0-60 times:
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Mercede...mph-Times.html

K-A

Well said. The Insurance prices are VERY reflective as to how much "safer" high HP cars are.

And exactly on point about the E350 buyer caring about HP. I'd cry myself to sleep if HP was even a minor factor in my purchase choice, as I would be better off flushing my cash down the toilet.

Don't forget, that the E350 outsold the newer 535i every month since the F10 debuted. Considering the E60 outsold the W211 handily (i.e, more returning customer potential), and considering the price of the 535i isn't that much higher than the lesser HP E350, and was obviously not a factor in so many peoples minds, shows where the average buyers mind is at, with HP, in this segment.

IMO, "slow" can't really be felt in seat of the pants as well as by *noise*. I.e, if an engine has to wind up and get annoyingly loud to move, then it's unacceptable to me. The 268 HP E350 gets up to speed without having to sound course and strained, IMO that's more important to me, personally, than HP figures.

e550 87ss

You guys make a lot of overarching claims without any supporting empirical evidence. Also you hold that the variable in every situation is the drivers recklessness in a fast car not the the performance of the vehicle alone. Civics, accords, and mazda3s also have insurance points due to the number of accidents they are in. A cop cars power is in the radio... they rarely get into high speed pursuits. It's anecdotal, but I had friend who was a state trooper, he explained that whenever there was a car speeding above 130 they would let it go or call it in because by the time they pulled out they would be gone. Pull up the statistical evidence and you will find that more slow cars cause accidents because there are more of them out there... Seriously DUI, vehicle maintenance, aggressive driving, distracted driving, speeding, driving tired are some of the top causes of accidents not high hp cars... speeding can occur in any car... You guys think because you see a ferrari wrapped around a poll its statistical evidence that a high hp car is more dangerous, lol... that's a single incident sensationalized. If they published every accident from a slow car you would have a library of reports instead of a few hundred encyclopedias of fast cars... Also when comparing similar hp cars look at the gearing, most of you have been weight conscious only. I don't understand why everyone thinks power is negligible when they would be quick to say that superior braking provides added safety. Furthermore what do sales # have to with anything, you can't assume that you know a buyers reason for purchase. Did you conduct a survey of a representative sample? Extra power is like having a extra money saved, when you need it, it is there. You could spend it recklessly or you can be conservative. In the event that an emergency occurs and you need, it's there... I'm done think what you want...

ttoE550

e550 87ss - nice post!

And,

Anyone who follows Formula 1 knows that it is indeed safer to be the fastest car (or one of the fastest cars) on the track. It's a lot easier to avoid a wreck when you can control your position on the racetrack and stay out of traffic.

Germancar1

WOW what a retarded thread this has become.

M

K-A

So, would you say that a 1,000 HP car is safer than an E550, in terms of "HP safety"? Or is there a limit to "safe HP"?

Again, yes, a 100 HP, 3000 lb car is potentially a safety hazard, as it might not be able to get out of its own way. But a 270 HP car has plenty of juice to be "safe", it did in the 80's, when 270 HP was an outstanding figure, and it will in 2080, when cars will have.... who knows how much HP.

The argument you guys are trying to make, in theory, makes sense, but saying a 370 HP car is "safer" than a 270 HP car is laughable. Neither are safety hazards, and the extra 1 second in the 1/4 won't mean a life and death difference in anything but the most freak occurrences, if that.

Were people just living on the edge in the 80's-90's? I mean, think about how much HP your average appliance-Econ car had back then!

RobbieRob

OMG,,, Sorry to the original poster. The poor guy just wanted to know 0-60 for the e-550, and look what this turned into.

WEBSRFR

Having 4MATIC really helps mitigate wheel-spin and offers more effective acceleration from a stand still. I love how I can fly away from a stop with no to very little wheel-spin drama even if I mash it.

reckrab

LOL! Slow cars do not cause accidents. Neither do fast cars. Drivers cause accidents. Some of those accidents can be attributed to the driver's over estimation or under estimation of the capabilities of their vehicle. Let's not blame the cars.

Formular 1 can't really be applied to this discussion. Those guys are professionals who are paid to drive in a highly aggressive manner with highly modified vehicles. If you are driving like that on the street you WILL cause accidents no matter what car you drive.

hyperion667

best post here!
WW!

so yeah guys, suck on that!! LOL............

awesome post!

this thread has gone lame..........nothing but people typing to see the words....only opinions and no facts..........

K-A

I agree. The car provides the power, or lack thereof, and the person behind the wheel has the task of using it as best they can. There are a lot of holes in his post up there, but I think we've hashed out enough here.

SolidGranite

OP: The only thing you can do is drive both cars extensively in as many situations as possible. I was personally in the market for an E350 way back and couldn't be happier about my decision to buy the 550. Also, don't let fuel consumption effect your decision, because if it does then you shouldn't be shopping for a Mercedes in the first place. My personal recommendation would be to hold out for a slightly used 2011 E550 with the updated color gauges. Save yourself 10k easy.

ESIX3POWER

What a joke,lol. But hey what ever makes you sleep better at night. The Mercedes V8 motor > Mercedes V6 motor, Its not even comparable, seriously.

K-A

Did you not read the part leading into that? Or the explanation of the statement?

Do you understand how power output works? You don't feel that 375 HP when you're feathering the gas, and driving like a granny in traffic (99% of my driving).

Whatever makes you justify the extra dough on the purchase.

Edit: I'm not saying the V6 is better, btw, as the V8 is the better motor in every which way except for gas mileage (also I've heard more reliability issues with the 5.5L, if we're comparing), and even that's not a huge difference. More power, better balanced (nature of V8 VS V6), smoother, sounds better, more torque, better powerband, etc. My point is, the "boasting" of what the V8 does over the V6 is realistically just that, and most don't even tap into the tangible difference in real life. In my experiences, the differences don't come across so staunchly all of the time, hence my contention with the V6.

ESIX3POWER

KA your comments concerning the E350/E550 are about as laughable as some one trying to convince me that there is no real difference between the E63 and E550.