I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT THE CUT OFF AS I STATED BEFORE..

MY POINT WHICH CEB HAS YET OT DISPROVE IS THAT IT IS THE SAME OPTICS FROM ONE TO THE OTHER(JUST MISSING THE MOTORS FOR AIMING AND THE CUT OFF) WHICH DEFEATS HIS BATTLE BY PROXY OF AN AUTHOR WHO SPEAKS OF GENERIC OPTICS VERS HID OPTICS ..

BUT REALLY WE ALL HIJACKED THIS GUYS THREAD AND IM NOT ANY BETTER THAN THE NEXT SORRY BIGIGG

MAYBE WE NEED A REALLY STUDY DONE OR SOMEONE TO LOOK IN DEPTH WITH OUR VEHICLES SPECIFICALLY.

I DONT MIND BEING PROVEN WRONG..IT JUST HASNT HAPPENED YET LOL

 

When they reference the optics, they are referencing the entire optic system: the projector and cutoff.

First, I see absolutely no evidence that they use the same projector lens. It may look identical, but given the different focal lengths of the bulbs, they are almost definitely different lenses, and it might require equipment more precise than anyone has at their home to determine the difference. Bear in mind that when you pass light through a one inch optic and then shoot it several hundred feet, imperceptible differences in lens construction, like a difference of a thousandth of an inch, affect aiming by feet, yards, or more. This is similar to how moving a rifle sight by just a hair will throw bullet impact off by feet.

But to grant your premise, let's say the projector is the same, just without a cutoff. The point of the article is that without a cutoff, the HID functions as a high beam. That is how bixenon high beam works, they remove the cutoff. If the stock projector has no cutoff, then adding a HID bulb makes it a high beam. Aiming it down is a hack to overcome the fact that the cutoff is missing or not working correctly.

From looking at my wife's C300 beam pattern, I'm inclined to say the stock halogen projector has a cutoff of some sort, but it is not very functional (this is probably on purpose). You would need to take it apart to be sure, though, and I can't find a picture of one dissected. Given that people who actually know what they are doing (Zam2000, Raymond G) seem to throw out the halogen projectors and use proper HID projectors, it seems the experts have spoken. Even if you could reuse the actual lens from the halogen unit, you would need to rebuild the entire rest of the assembly, including the cutoff, bulb base, reflectors, etc. It is much cheaper and easier to simply swap the whole assembly because there are substantial and non-trivial differences between the two. I hope this helps to explain the difficulty in retrofitting.

In short, Mercedes cars are not different. The projectors are actually made by Hella, and are generally the same as the ones found in Acuras, Audis, and other luxury cars. Virtually any (legitimate) information you find regarding HID retrofits will apply to Mercedes. You'll notice in the link I posted, the guy used a Mercedes (Hella) projector to modify his Subaru. People routinely swap Audi RS6 and Acura TSX projectors into Mercedes cars. It's generally all the same.

 

HERES AN COMIC RELIEF FOR THE TOPIC

MY WIFE ASKED WHAT I WAS DOING..I SAID FIGHTING ON THE FORUMS AS USUAL.
SHE ASKED ABOUT WHAT..I SAID HIDS AND THE SAFETY ISSUES..

SHE THEN SAYS..HOAST INTRUSION PROTECTION,,WHY ISNT THAT SAFE...LMFAO

WE BOTH WORK IN IT..BUT SHE IS THE REAL NERD..LOL

 

Also, as a general comment, you guys are driving $50k cars (except CEB, his collection would be hard to replace). If you want to mod it, I would do it right, not take the $100 approach that doesn't even belong on a Honda Civic. Putting aside safety and legality, when someone with real HIDs pulls up next to you and has that nice cutoff, aren't you going to feel like you cheaped out? Do it right, with a projector swap, and it will look much better, as well.

 

Who else would be doing this at noon on a Tuesday? I hear you.

 

But you have a keyboard without a broken caps lock key.

 

WOULD IT MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER IF I WHISPERED IT INTO YOUR EAR SWEETY

 

Yes, the projectors are different and so are the cutoffs, but there is an adjustable screw on the top of the headlight to aim the bulb lower so the cutoff, even though it is off, will still not give glare.

Plus, have you ever heard of anyone being literally BLINDED by lights?
In my neighborhood, people love to drive with their high beams on. They don't care about others! I've never been blinded by other people's lights... and if you blind someone else and they hit you, you have insurance right?

Just let people do what they want. Yes, thank you CEB and saintz for providing the facts, but please don't keep bringing them up if no one wants to see them. Just let it go, it's not your car.

 

That's a bad statement. It's usually lifted stupid a$$ Pickup Trucks with incredibly bright Pep Boys Hyper White-Blue bulbs that are literally temporarily "blinding" that I see a lot. It's an INCREDIBLE annoyance. Also, you really think getting hit is that "no big deal" of a situation? Insurance can't save your life, your health, someone else's health or life, or your car (after all, some of us are car enthusiasts, right? We don't want our cars harmed).

Disclaimer: I'm staying the hell out of this, otherwise than pointing that out.

 

The cutoff and glare of those lights looks turrible.

I literally lol'd at this. Wow.

 

 

As I alluded earlier, the cutoff will cutoff light from going above the horizon into oncoming traffic. The adjustment screw is to align the headlight, not to function as a cutoff. When I said a halogen projector throws light everywhere, I mean that although the light is generally brighter on the road than above the horizon, it still outputs light above the horizon. You can adjust it down all you want, there will still be light bleeding above the horizon unless you have a cutoff. You can compare the pictures I posted to see that an HID projector with cutoff does not illuminate above the horizon, whereas the OPs car with halogen projector adjusted down and HID bulb does throw light above the horizon.

I have been blinded by light, and have blinded others, easily. I have a flashlight barely bigger than my thumb which can blind and disorient someone for many seconds without any problem. It is about 3 watts. I have no doubt that a car with a 55 watt, dual projector design can do better. Police carry such flashlights and use them as an actual weapon against potential threats. Shinning someone in the face with a strong light is extremely effective. You can disorient someone instantly and make them unable to engage. Even shooting them in the chest isn't that effective, that fast (although it is obviously more lasting in its effect). A man with a bullet in the chest can still return fire. A man who can't see you, not so much.

Which brings us to the question of getting into a head on collision because you blind someone. I am pretty perturbed by the "not my problem" attitude. Even if you don't care if the other person careens off the road and dies, what if they hit you? Insurance? When they investigate the accident and the other driver says he was blinded by your headlights, they will quickly realize you have illegal, non standard equipment. Any cop can quickly ID the ballasts and other tell tale signs. Now the accident is your fault, and your insurance is likely to tell you you're on your own since your illegal vehicle modifications caused the accident. This is of course assuming you're both alive. A 2010 E class has a 4 star safety rating from NHTSA, which translates to a 11%-20% chance of serious injury (meaning hospitalization and possibly life threatening) from a 35 mph crash. Risk of injury goes up exponentially with speed. You can look up the stats on safercar.gov.

Even tootling down the road at a measly 35 mph, if you blind someone and they veer into you, there is a serious chance of being hospitalized and even dying. I'm all for "letting people do what they want" when that includes picking rims, adding decals, whatever. Those are personal choices. But when you do something dangerous and illegal, you are outside your personal freedom, as you are encroaching on the freedoms of others. Not caring about the consequences of your actions to others is careless, while not caring about the consequences to yourself (because insurance will cover it) is reckless.

I don't think it's being a wet blanket to help people understand the danger of what they're doing and how they can do better. I provided links for the correct and safe way to do it. I also explained how it will aesthetically look better to do it correctly, in addition to the safety benefit. I have a 600 hp car, so obviously I understand modding and enjoying cars. I just do it responsibly, and encourage and educate others to as well.

 

 

Saints the picture you posted with the HID replacement projector, my car has the same cutoff with my HIDS. It is just as clean as what you posted. Now I am not talking about the legality of it, my headlights have the same cutoff. There are things that can be modified if done right. Whether it is legal or not is another story.

 

Tone down the rhetoric or the thread will be closed.

Please play nice. Thank you.

 

as mentioned by CEB already, it has to do with the simple laws of physics and
geometry. one of the key factors here with H7 v D2s bulbs not being inter-
changeable is focal point.

Sunny day outside. In one hand you have scrap of paper. In the other, a
magnifying lens. The goal is to get the paper to burn. You hold the magnifying
lens and begin adjusting the distance to the paper until the FOCAL POINT indi-
cates that it is at the optimum distance for the rays to converge....flame on.

Similar laws of physics occur with light bulbs in a projector. The distance for
finely focused beam occurs at (again) OPTIMUM FOCAL POINT. The distance
is different oh so slightly between the H7 vs D2S bulbs.

So, in order to get the beam focused properly, and without glare, the bulb
holder, the projector, and the projector lens must be balanced along critical
specifications to ensure that the beam is tuned.

Tuning is important because of the high intensity inherent with the HID design.
This is less critical with bulbs which produce dimmer lumens.

Admittedly, I am in violation with my HID set up because the law does not
allow people to reuse and retrofit OEM projectors....which is what I've done.
I've simply taken E55 bixenon projectors and fitted them into halogen housing.

But since the quality is same as OEM (since I'm using OEM parts), I sleep a
little better and, for the most part, not fearful of black helos from NHTSA,
DOT, or NTSB.

It would be great if HID kits include shims or tools to help calibrate D2S bulbs
into halogen projectors and bulb holders. But they don't. They rely on a
customer base which simply cares about 1) does it look cool, or 2) how bright
can I purchase for cheap?

The photos shown in this thread indicate severe glare. Rare, but I have seen
some HID kits with surprisingly decent results. The vast majority of HID kits
result in uncontrollable glare.

The glare pisses me off when I'm riding motorcycles at night, and I have run
off the road 2x in the suburbs due to light blindness from ill matched HID kits.

One thing for sure. With a few hours of careful hands-on craftsmanship using
OEM HID components, the results can be breath taking.

check out Zam2000s retrofit, which I recall was an OEM Stanley projector


this photo(s) is from an E55 which I dropped into a Depo with very minor modification
the intensity and coverage is superb, though not as nice as the Stanley.
I'm working on a upgrade to this



anyhoo, hope my blather helps to enlighten some folks. quit posturing and
chest thumping and try to remember what you learned in physics class

 

the projector lens with the best cutoff line I've seen come from the Honda S2000.

 

Can you post a picture? If you've got a clean cutoff, however you got it, you are basically set. As Raymond alluded, the law is somewhat vague, but if it's safe, you're not likely to have legal issues.

Raymond, thanks for jumping in. The pictures are really helpful.

 

The law isn't vague at all, but there is the "technical law" and the application of the law.

If you do a homebrew retrofit using parts not originally designed for the car then it is still technically illegal, but if it otherwise meets the requirements (meets the headlighting requirements for brightness, glare, focus etc) then there is a pretty good chance that you won't have issues at inspection time.

A word of caution though as it may not be quite as easy at it appears. Like Raymond said with the example of the sun, the magnifying glass and the combustable object, it is all about focus and getting that spot on is a tedious job and can really only be achieved if you take a professionally designed system and drop it into your application. You can't just grab a projector designed for HID and a rendom bulb and try to cobble the two together in an existing halogen housing to get them to work properly.

 

I received the following from Steve from XenonDepot regarding my 2006 e320 and the cutoff:

Mercedes halogen headlights have a very sharp cut off even though they are reflectors (not projectors). The only thing that you may need to do with your vehicle is have the setting on the vehicle's computer set to "Xenon = Present." This will tell the vehicle to expect the 35W draw that the HIDs take and you will not get an error code.

He really did not answer my question on the cutoff of the HID's just that the stock halogen has a sharp cutoff.

Mike T.

 

Reading some of the various legislation (I'm not a lawyer) it seems that retrofitting an Acura TSX HID projector into a Mercedes is a bit of a grey area. That is adding an OEM, DOT approved HID light to the car. But it's not the same OEM as the car.

If you look here http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html, the NHTSA admits they are "interpreting" the law, i.e. they admit it is not black and white and they have to evaluate each case. There's also a question of which laws apply to manufacturers versus consumers, and there you get into state by state legislation. Just because it's illegal for someone to sell doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal to install, at least under a given law.

This is what I meant by vague. But I think common sense should be a guiding principle. A proper OEM HID projector and bulb combination is safe, and unlikely to cause any legal hassles.

 

The 2006 E class uses a projector. The 2002 and earlier E class used a reflector. I would also disagree that Mercedes halogen headlights have a sharp cutoff. Maybe some do, but my wife's halogen projectors do not. I'm not sure if that differs between models and that's what he was referring to.

In a projector design, there is still a reflector used, and maybe somehow that is what he is saying, but you normally call it a projector if it has a lens and a reflector if it does not.

These guys seem to have a pretty good idea what they're doing if you're looking for buying advice: http://www.customlightz.com/?p=p_26&sName=projectors

 

Sure, NHTSA is "interpreting" the law that they wrote. This is really academic however as we are both saying the same thing - a proper OE retrofit is unlikely to cause any problems when it comes time to inspect the car, nor will it be a reason to be ticketed.

A glaring hack job, OTOH, (pun intended) is likely not only to cause inspection issues, but is also a prime candidate for getting stopped and ticketed (or getting your car impounded.)

A few years ago NHTSA cracked down on manufacturers, importers and distributers of clear tail light assemblies and at least one (APC) was heavily fined. The others were required to conduct recalls and paying fines) I suspect that you'll see a similar crackdown next year on aftermarket bulbs.

 

Sorry, but neither of those two places are reputable sources of information. Xenon Depot has this buried in their FAQ

"HID conversion kits are not street legal for use on public roads. As a result, we officially endorse the kit for exhibition and off-road use and will only sell the kit to be used for these purposes. We are not responsible for buyers who violate the terms of sale while in which they will assume all responsibilities for any unauthorized or unintended use other than exhibition or off-road use."

Customlightz modifies their assemblies to provide a "sharper" cutoff. This cutoff now adds glare and a blue outline which further degrades visibility.

Finally, there doesn't seem to be much emphasis on the proper aiming of these assemblies nor does it consider the role of the housing and lens in their roles in providing a proper lighting source.

 

I can't believe I just lost 30 mins of my life trying to read the whole thread because CEB won't go away and keep posting useless craps. damn you CEB.