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Can someone explain how the trans goes in to park without doing any damage .And was the car in motion when this happened ,,or stationary ?. I only know about old Mercedes and a pawl goes in place to lock the tramsmision up so it wont move . And damage will be done if car is on the move when selector is put in to park .,, need to know about this and i am thinking it is electronic set up
2020 GLS450 / 2024 Ford Bronco / (former) W212 4-matic 350 sport package
Originally Posted by optimusprime m1
Can someone explain how the trans goes in to park without doing any damage .And was the car in motion when this happened ,,or stationary ?. I only know about old Mercedes and a pawl goes in place to lock the tramsmision up so it wont move . And damage will be done if car is on the move when selector is put in to park .,, need to know about this and i am thinking it is electronic set up
Me too, I’d like to know how this doesn’t damage something?? Tear the mount, tear the flex discs on the ends of the drive shaft??
Nc211 May be electronic ..I never put mine in to park till i have stopped. Did damage one some years ago ,, i put it in to park just before the car had come to stand still ,I had this bang ,,and park never worked again.
2020 GLS450 / 2024 Ford Bronco / (former) W212 4-matic 350 sport package
Was that on a w212 that this happened on?
This ignition switch thing sounds like a ticking time bomb to do some serious damage? I too never change a gear unless totally stopped first, but can’t help to think about the cost of the learning curve for those new to this type of setup and slam it into park before fully stopped. I have to assume it can’t be good for the engine and trans mounts as that energy has to get displaced somewhere. That’s a lot of weight rocking back an forth as the car settles back down.. I see posts of folks accidentally opening the door while the car is still rolling and getting this jolt as the car goes into park, and now the ignition switch glitch. Just curious if MB took this into consideration and tested for it or have since realized it and created a fix (as I assume most have done this door thing early in their ownership before realizing it...aka...warranty period).
I had this happen to me over the weekend. It's extremely unnerving! I noticed that once it was in park, it wouldn't shift back into drive. It would quickly flash D, R, then back to P. I'd have to shut off the car, pull out the key, and restart. At one light even that didn't do the trick. I finally figured out that if I restarted, and left it in park until the moment I needed to go, then shift into drive and immediately start moving that I could go.
I got it home safely so it's camping in the garage for the time being until I figure out my next move. I contacted a dealership and they quoted me $1300 to replace the EIS. I also contacted corporate about goodwill assistance and they said I'd hear back today or tomorrow. I was kind of bugged that they didn't take down the bulletin number even though I offered it multiple times. She said she didn't know what a service bulletin was, and had no way of finding it based on the number I had. I'm not expecting a whole lot but I guess we'll see.
If 1300 really is the price, I'll be taking advantage of one of the many services offered on eBay to repair it. I'm not looking forward to removing it since the steering wheel needs to be pulled, but I've heard here that it's not too bad. Has anyone here ever removed their EIS? How hard was it and which service did you use to get it repaired? For anyone who got it replaced at the dealership, how much did it cost (or would have)? Any general suggestions on how to proceed?
I also contacted corporate about goodwill assistance and they said I'd hear back today or tomorrow. I was kind of bugged that they didn't take down the bulletin number even though I offered it multiple times. She said she didn't know what a service bulletin was, and had no way of finding it based on the number I had. I'm not expecting a whole lot but I guess we'll see.
If your VIN is within affected range "OK as of VIN 212 … *A776831" you need to argue for free repair out of warranty because defective switch was installed during production as documented by Xentry bulletin, email copy of bulletin:
Mine is definitely within the VIN range (below A776831) described in the bulletin. Would I make the replacement argument with MBUSA or the dealership? The SA I spoke to at the dealership was solidly in the "KSOL" camp.
Just talked to MBUSA, and no dice. Tried pushing them based on it being a safety issue and production flaw, but they wouldn't budge. Based on the fact my car has ~130k miles and I didn't buy it from a Mercedes dealership, they didn't want to do anything. I was really hoping for at least a discount.
I did some more reading, and based on this thread, having an electronics repair shop look for cold/broken solders might be a cheap and fast fix. The folks there are reporting different symptoms, but the EIS repair services I saw all grouped a lot of similar symptoms together.
I coincidentally have a brand new fob on order with a dealership, so at this point I'm inclined to try cleaning the inside of the keyhole out with rubbing alcohol and see what happens with the new key. I was also having trouble with the key occasionally not locking/unlocking the car after shutting it off, so it's possible it's a problem with the old fob. Might as well cover the easy bases first.
This happened to my 2012 E350. The problem was a bad ignition switch, which I asked about somewhere up in this thread. It's been 2 years since it was replaced and I have not had any problems.
*Huge knock on wood* I got the new key on Thursday morning and drove it all weekend without incident, including remote functionality. It's only been a few days so time will tell, but so far so good.
As an update, the new key did not do the trick. I ended up taking the module out a bit later, completely disassembling it, and giving it a thorough cleaning. All of the component leads looked great, no cracks or burns or anything of the sort. The whole thing had a fair amount of dust in it. I used compressed air to spray all of the dust out, and rubbing alcohol on q-tips to clean all of the optical components. I didn't have a ton of faith it would work, but I'm coming up on a year or so without incident. I'll post another update if anything changes.
The problem is the ignition switch yesterday i have changed my eis and the problem has disappeared.Thanks to all of you guys for helping me and all of you who have the same problem go and change your EIS and the problem will be solved
hey quick question where did you purchase eis and did you have to get it programmed and where
for a 2016 E350, at least, its part A2189054701 and is described a a 'theft relevant part', hence probably has to be ordered from a dealer with proof of ownership. the codes to go with that PN say its for cars with 279 (electronic gear selector), and any one of codes 805/806/807 (not sure what those codes mean). It must be coded to your car by a dealer, afaik, indies can't do that sort of thing, even if they have Star or XEntry systems
I have taken my car to the mechanic more times than I like for the same problem. Only to be told we can't duplicate the problem. Then after fixing something they shouldn't have, the problem showed itself while the mechanic was driving it.
Here's the timeline 2022:
1. First time I took it in, I was told it was the battery. But the battery was new.
2. I took it back again, and was told they can't duplicate the problem.
2. Took it in again (5/20220), then I was told it was the steering column, which they replaced.
3. It happened again last week, So I took the car in again, and was told they can't duplicate the problem (12/2022)
4. The gear slipped into park again yesterday at the red light and while in reverse (backing into my parking space at home). (12/31/22)
I had to turn the car off and back on; to put it into drive.
I'm getting tired of this, especially the "we can't duplicate the problem" excuse. This make it seem like the problem is in my head, which its not.. I'm ready to get another car.
Has there been a recall on parts regarding this problem? My annual service is due this month. Its no way I'm paying for that while this problem persist.
Seems like a waste of money. Is it time to let this car go?
My car has over 100,000 miles
I'm Frustrated as hell. I hope what I wrote is easy to understand.
Last edited by Star 23; 01-01-2023 at 01:55 PM.
Reason: needed to update grammar
I’m still an advocate of cleaning the module. Mine is still working flawlessly, and it cost me nothing more than a few q tips and rubbing alcohol. Getting it out is a pain but any shop should be able to handle it.
I have experienced Park engaged at low speed because I opened the door while car is still in D .
I also notice with engine kill, P is automatically selected.
If Atraudes or other member cure for the problem is cleaning the EIS/EZS, it does make sense...partially.
Assuming the issue is not this TSB : LI54.25-P-056472 Key in electronic ignition switch (EZS) is not recognized, automatic transmission shifts to Park before vehicle comes to a stop Complaint: The key is not recognized in the electronic ignition switch, the vehicle cannot be started and/or the automatic transmission may go into Park at speeds below 6 km/h.
Cause: An assembly issue in the electronic ignition switch (EZS) results in a transition resistance at the diodes of the key detector. The key is detected as "not inserted" and may go into Park.
Now, intermittently bad CAN BUS network be it from corrosion or loose wiring/connection can have the same result as power loss to the related modules.
The same goes for intermittently bad +12V power and -12V ground supplies/connection.
A NO-COM ( no communication) situation can come from power loss or severe voltage drop or intermittently bad CAN BUS network.
Here we are discussing an intermittent problem, which is so frustrating.
The problem with our car is, a NO-COM can make other related modules goes to its SAFETY mode.
Our cars are in many ways are driven/controlled by wire, a no data exchange between modules deemed as a failure and SAFETY mode will be triggered.
Something as critical as transmission module or EIS/EZS, if a NO-COM occurred for even a split second and at slow enough vehicle speed,
the ECM may tell ISM or the ISM itself may engage Park.
Xentry DTC list has information on how fast conditions of X Y Z errors will be responded, for some critical system I have seen 0.2 seconds allowance only, before action will be taken.
Now the actual triggering and registering a DTC at the culprit module or at the related interconnected module/s.
This I noticed can be frustrating at times. If error event occurred at a short duration but enough to create issue to other module/s, DTC may not be registered because some
DTC need frequency of occurrence and duration of it to be long and frequent enough before DTC is registered.
Example like this :
Assume bad connection at EIS/EZS for the CAN-BUS, a data lost of 0.5 seconds from EIS/EZS to ISM.
If ISM operating algo required data to be at 5HZ or 5 times a second, 0.5 seconds of data lost is enough for ISM to choose SAFETY mode and engaged to PARK when and if
speed is low enough. ISM may not produce DTC for Implausible Data, nor the EIS/EZS. If the data lost is longer, very much likely DTC will be registered.
I have always wondered how the state of YES or NO or ON/OFF is implemented in our cars.
Forgive me for my limited English vocabulary if my choice of vocab is confusing
A simple example for a traditional non CAN BUS headlight , a simple hardwire wiring.
When we turn on Low Beam using the rotary switch, we supply constant +12V to bulb. Simple.
In a CAN-BUS operated headlight, we supply an ON command by data to the module of that headlight which in turn powered up that bulb,
but this ON command is not continuous, it is pulsed command of ON-ON-ON-ON every few milliseconds.
I learned of this when I tried to sniff the CAN BUS command for High Beam. It is here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-you-need.html
Post #5 shows that the ON-command for high beam when operated permanently is a 10Hz or per 100miliseconds the ON ON ON ON command sent out to the headlight module. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8581110
Back to EIS/EZS :
If the data from it is say a statement of READY READY READY and at 10hz , loosing 0.5 seconds of data from EIS/EZS may mean NOT-READY to the ISM module.
This very reason troubleshooting our cars if the actual culprit is a data lost for short duration of time is a nightmare.
Not only an intermittent issue is difficult to replicate, the technician is now faced with something not visible to the eye and only visible to a CAN BUS sniffer*
( *assuming he knows the ID of the command which is very unlikely ) or using oscilloscope permanently connected to suspected network while trying to replicate
the problem which never appear on his watch. The question is, will the technician in the first place suspect the CAN BUS ?
I think as our car is aging, it will be best to do real preventive maintenance on the car communication network interconnection as those simple looking
CAN-BUS junction box/distributors are responsible for many modules data interconnectivity.
Unlike a bad connector at a module effecting only that particular module, a wet or corroded CAN-BUS junction box/distributors will take down all modules using it and a NO-COM
is what we get, but often a NO-COM is not reported simply as NO-COM, it could be reported as worse condition or not reported at all if error duration too short.
The CAN BUS distributors or junction box like X30/30 and few more similar ones are located at the floor close to LEFT and RIGHT door.
These area is known to collect water from leaks when car rain water drainage system is not properly cleaned.
The thick foam the floor carpet is using will hide the wetness of these areas.
Do not get too focused on a module only, do expand the caution to where CAN-BUS interconnections are made too.
This excellent busy work is made possible by unsoldered EIS module. It develops crusty connections that throw the car into "P" while driving.
Overlooking that too many times will require $8k surgery work on 722.9.
To make this module better than new for 2¢, simply add the missing solder joints carefully left out.
Let me see if I can find pics for ya... naked EIS goodness ... evidently built to fail 🙃
I sort of recall EIS being a dual-board sandwich but can't locate other views.
In the above assembly, we can spot 2x opto-couplers used to detect key positions.
Overall a state of the art modern electronic design with distributed software functions.
Easy fix.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 01-09-2023 at 05:31 PM.
What can I say? It seems my car took a gremlin for a ride again
Yesterday, after @45min uneventful ride I slowed down next to a curb to park, and when I try to shift to reverse I got no response. It did not want to shift either to N, R or P. , was I pissed?
Since all the different recent threads, I calmly proceeded (with SO in the car) to debug it:
1 - Turned off the car, it shift itself to N
2 - Turned on the car, still no response, now stuck at N
3 - Forced to shift to P by opening the door. Now stuck in P. Repeat off -> On, still stuck.
4 - Without getting off the car, switch off. Key out of the ignition. Lock the doors with the keyfob using 2 clicks looking for the computer to shutoff quickly (no time to wait for it to shut off)
5 - Once the cluster is dark, with no lights, unlock the car with the keyfob, start it, and voila car is back to normal again. So happy, I could at least finish the intended trip w/o towing it.
I honestly do not think it is the ISM. It has to be a communication error, and I must have a bad connection somewhere: CAN bus, unsoldered pins, grounding, etc but something is not consistently connected
Back home at night, plugged in XEntry, and diagnostics showed 4 STORED communications errors, nothing current:
- Backup camera (likely when I tried to shift to R) and it could not connect
- DIRECT_SELECT communication error
- EIS communication error
- Steering column communication error
Noticed my main battery was at 12.0V with the doors open, and XEntry connected, so I let it charge overnight.
Will update later, when I get a chance in the garage.
What can I say? It seems my car took a gremlin for a ride again
Yesterday, after @45min uneventful ride I slowed down next to a curb to park, and when I try to shift to reverse I got no response. It did not want to shift either to N, R or P. , was I pissed?
Since all the different recent threads, I calmly proceeded (with SO in the car) to debug it:
1 - Turned off the car, it shift itself to N
2 - Turned on the car, still no response, now stuck at N
3 - Forced to shift to P by opening the door. Now stuck in P. Repeat off -> On, still stuck.
4 - Without getting off the car, switch off. Key out of the ignition. Lock the doors with the keyfob using 2 clicks looking for the computer to shutoff quickly (no time to wait for it to shut off)
5 - Once the cluster is dark, with no lights, unlock the car with the keyfob, start it, and voila car is back to normal again. So happy, I could at least finish the intended trip w/o towing it.
I honestly do not think it is the ISM. It has to be a communication error, and I must have a bad connection somewhere: CAN bus, unsoldered pins, grounding, etc but something is not consistently connected
Back home at night, plugged in XEntry, and diagnostics showed 4 STORED communications errors, nothing current:
- Backup camera (likely when I tried to shift to R) and it could not connect
- DIRECT_SELECT communication error
- EIS communication error
- Steering column communication error
Noticed my main battery was at 12.0V with the doors open, and XEntry connected, so I let it charge overnight.
Will update later, when I get a chance in the garage.
OMG JC, I am very sorry to read this classic Benz BS happened to you personally.
Imagine a minute the face on your sister if she had been behind the wheel -Or anyone else for that matter
You seriously kept it calm and collected like an airplane Capt during a windshear nose dive.
Every step was the right one, no unnecessary drama, everybody got home, safe on time without tow truck.
I have the feeling you're not going to indulge in $4k dealer dance "with free car wash" and all the back and forth games - I did not either, so now I'll be going on a trip to TAHITI in 2 weeks.
What are you gonna fix...
- I don't believe licensed professionals are allowed to use repaired modules that are not recertified through a refurb channel. Besides used parts purposely carry locked VIN identifiers. Only new parts can be used as replacements.
- Homies can do just about anything they wish to they prized possessions.
✌️
Defective Benz parts...
Do you think the new OEM replacement with superceeded numbers are built with identical features to prematurely fail ?
My answer to that quest is: Yes! Same exact part extremely well crafted.
My planned floor jack commando ...:
ISM unsoldered goodness
Tranny rubber mount
Chassis GND Strap.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 01-24-2023 at 01:46 AM.
Reason: chaos on the road!
What can I say? It seems my car took a gremlin for a ride again
Yesterday, after @45min uneventful ride I slowed down next to a curb to park, and when I try to shift to reverse I got no response. It did not want to shift either to N, R or P. , was I pissed?
Since all the different recent threads, I calmly proceeded (with SO in the car) to debug it:
1 - Turned off the car, it shift itself to N
2 - Turned on the car, still no response, now stuck at N
3 - Forced to shift to P by opening the door. Now stuck in P. Repeat off -> On, still stuck.
4 - Without getting off the car, switch off. Key out of the ignition. Lock the doors with the keyfob using 2 clicks looking for the computer to shutoff quickly (no time to wait for it to shut off)
5 - Once the cluster is dark, with no lights, unlock the car with the keyfob, start it, and voila car is back to normal again. So happy, I could at least finish the intended trip w/o towing it.
I honestly do not think it is the ISM. It has to be a communication error, and I must have a bad connection somewhere: CAN bus, unsoldered pins, grounding, etc but something is not consistently connected
Back home at night, plugged in XEntry, and diagnostics showed 4 STORED communications errors, nothing current:
- Backup camera (likely when I tried to shift to R) and it could not connect
- DIRECT_SELECT communication error
- EIS communication error
- Steering column communication error
Noticed my main battery was at 12.0V with the doors open, and XEntry connected, so I let it charge overnight.
Will update later, when I get a chance in the garage.
So what is your preventive or repair plan my man ?
Get the WIS function schematic and see what other modules are actually involved.
Are these the reporter modules , I mean these 4 modules below under Xentry are the one doing the report/DTC ? - Backup camera (likely when I tried to shift to R) and it could not connect
- DIRECT_SELECT communication error
- EIS communication error
- Steering column communication error
When using Xentry or any scanner, do observe which module made the report and what is the report.
Example, if say a module has power loss and surely NO-COM at the same time, the reporting modules are other related modules and not the dead no power module itself.
12-19-2019, 04:53 AM
Car Gears Jump into Park When Stop and Backing Up
.
, was I pissed?
