2014 E550 Total Meltdown!
#26
I have a E350. The blind side assist and lane keep assist functions are inoperative. I've tested the batteries (both hold a charge above 12V without running the engine), wiggled the connections to the rear bumper radar sensors, confirmed no obvious swelling or water damage and finally confirmed that the fuses are ok. I'm sharing this as "same but different" to other people's experience. I have not removed the sensor to clear them. There is some dirt. I just don't know how to remove the sensors without removing the bumper which seems unnecessary. - E
#27
Electrical system problem occurs in severe rain storm, disappears after sitting and car works fine in dry weather... sounds like a water intrusion / short of some electrical component to me. Sorry for your luck, it could definitely be a tough one to track down.
#28
In case anyone is wondering, there is a connector in the trunk for the radar sensors. I disconnected mine to physically isolate the sensors from the CAN. The red/black is +12v from fuse 59, the two green are CAN bus, and the brown is chassis ground.
#29
Ok so I’m posting this in case anyone has this problem in the future. My googling has not turned up a similar case. I’ll try to keep this short.
As I pulled away from a traffic light (flashing red due to storm), I got a ‘blind spot assist inop’ light. As I drove on, I got more and more warning lights. I pulled over after about a mile, turned the car off then on again, no more lights. Another half mile, more lights, warnings, transmission starts to act weird.
So I tried to restart again, it won’t turn off (keyless button). Time to go home. I drove about three miles to my house, it won’t go over 1000 rpm (traffic was heavy due to traffic lights out anyway). Turn signal inop. Pull into garage, it won’t shift to park, still won’t turn off.
I called Mercedes customer service, they told me to pop off the start button and put the key in. This stopped the motor. The car would not re-start. They sent a tow truck and took it to the nearest dealer.
That was almost two weeks ago. I went today to get something out of the car, and to my surprise they were able to drive it around to the front. It has not been looked at by the techs yet.
So here I am, very puzzled. I will post updates, and if anyone has an idea what is going on I’d like to hear it. My theory at the moment is that maybe a nearby lightning strike has fried the computers
As I pulled away from a traffic light (flashing red due to storm), I got a ‘blind spot assist inop’ light. As I drove on, I got more and more warning lights. I pulled over after about a mile, turned the car off then on again, no more lights. Another half mile, more lights, warnings, transmission starts to act weird.
So I tried to restart again, it won’t turn off (keyless button). Time to go home. I drove about three miles to my house, it won’t go over 1000 rpm (traffic was heavy due to traffic lights out anyway). Turn signal inop. Pull into garage, it won’t shift to park, still won’t turn off.
I called Mercedes customer service, they told me to pop off the start button and put the key in. This stopped the motor. The car would not re-start. They sent a tow truck and took it to the nearest dealer.
That was almost two weeks ago. I went today to get something out of the car, and to my surprise they were able to drive it around to the front. It has not been looked at by the techs yet.
So here I am, very puzzled. I will post updates, and if anyone has an idea what is going on I’d like to hear it. My theory at the moment is that maybe a nearby lightning strike has fried the computers
#30
My 2014 E 350 did very similar. I started the car and pulled away and all of the sudden I got every inoperable message there was. The steering got funny (no power steering at slow speeds) and the transmission would not down shift. I made it to the dealer and they turned it off then on and the check engine light lit up along with everything else. I still have CPO warranty so I left it. I have also had both rear radar sensors replaced in the past 2 months. Not sure if both were replaced or they just got them working each time.
They called the next day for me to pick it up. Said they couldn't find anything wrong with the car. Said they found a software update and it was fine after the update. I doubt that's all that was wrong? I'm waiting for it to happen again.
I also just moved to FL 6 months ago and am wondering if the rains have something to do with it?
They called the next day for me to pick it up. Said they couldn't find anything wrong with the car. Said they found a software update and it was fine after the update. I doubt that's all that was wrong? I'm waiting for it to happen again.
I also just moved to FL 6 months ago and am wondering if the rains have something to do with it?
Last edited by Waterdog3; 10-19-2018 at 02:22 PM. Reason: add location
#31
My two cents: MB should separate primary system and secondary system in its main processing network. Primary being the main drivabiliyt and secondary being accessory functions. the OP should have been at least drive home with such minor function being inoperable.....
#32
There are two networks, one for drivetrain, one for body. The car can be totally dead on the body can and might still start and run if the EIS can see all the Drive Auth system components. It will lose some functions and will be in limp mode, but it will move. It's not possible for a body can issue to shut down the drivetrain can in any normal circumstance.
#33
Hey, you paid 1800 CAD for your rear sensor? Wow...I paid 900$, then two weeks later the right side went bonkers...also 900$.
Just thought I would reply because I saw how much you spent and did a double take.
M
Just thought I would reply because I saw how much you spent and did a double take.
M
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 3,867
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
towards a solution
There are two networks, one for drivetrain, one for body. The car can be totally dead on the body can and might still start and run if the EIS can see all the Drive Auth system components. It will lose some functions and will be in limp mode, but it will move. It's not possible for a body can issue to shut down the drivetrain can in any normal circumstance.
TEN separate data networks :
LIN signaling: used for alternator control and main battery sensing
CAN-A Telematics: (mBrace, radio ...)
CAN-B Interior: (Doors, Roof, KeylessG, Seats ...) + Rear-SAM
CAN-C Drive train: (only Motor & Gearbox)
CAN-E1 Chassis: (Camera, blind spot, IgnitionSw... ) + Me-SFI
CAN-E2 :
CAN-F Central: (Command ...)
CAN-H VehDynamics: Distronic, BlinSpot...
CAN-I Engine: fuel and Nox
CAN-L Hybrid: electric cars
CGW: Central Gateway by Bosch
FWGW: Chassis Gateway by Lear
No one seems to know exactly what causes OP conditions when the whole car electronics dangerously goes crazy.
The word is " we have never heard of that..." "you are the first one my friend..." poker face complete denial instead of relevant consideration.
From what I gathered out of these situations, there is NO DTC fault or existing TSB pointing towards the root cause.
Something is stressing these networked modules beyond abilities to function.
Examples:
- Many times I unlock my car with the keyless handle, pull open the driver door and then the stupid alarm goes off because it was still armed !! (network delay)
- Some people report the trunk simply opening itself while the car has been parked for many hours (systems normally "sleeping").
Insight share: (see EDIT below)
- Battery Control commands deep discharging: after a while driving around daytime, alternator is commanded to deeply discharge the main battery below 12V
- Central Gateway by Bosch : this core module interconnects all the car networks together. It acts as a data router between buse
- ME-SFI by Bosch runs CAN-C but is also connected directly to CAN-E.
- It's a serious bug if a secondary peripheral module can bring down the main vehicle computer with no early warning !!!!!
EDIT2: Fancy combination of failures
Under voltage system failure is caused by a string of design factors.
Alternator control unable to reliably read BatterySensor from CAN-B goes into limbo law (discharge below 12v at cruising speed, daytime)
Data stream traffic across the CentralGateway bus interconnection is disrupted (signals are delayed through deep stacks)
A sick module on any 1 of 10 buses sends junk signaling
This means many things...
Reduce the number of failed modules to the minimum especially those failed since day-1 at factory production (Benz quality gone wild)
Gateway module faults are sign something is brewing (Ex: U103888: "service manual" + U103812: "service manual")
As it is the car systems have limited fault tolerance and can crash in a hurry without proper warning
BatterySensor LIN bus should get connected directly to engine CAN-C Bus NOT through the Rear-SAM (legacy rear MainBatt)
Bosch should seriously stress test its Gateway design to prevent road kills
Every car used to have either an Alternator Warning Light or a Voltage Dial... Benz too but its dangerously hidden under "Workshop Menu"!
Reward yourself:
Clear all module faults from ANY of your car then observe the engine runs nicer: smoother with low torque, less random missfires
Do NOT zap any adaptations, only the bus faults in this case
The hard faults will come back but until then happy car
Fix them hard faults... now you know why!
Many if not most fuel injection designs are licensed from Bosch. They all share that busy CPU bottleneck.
------------------------------
Drive cautiously knowing you can get limp-mode at freeway speeds with no steering power... luxurious nightmare courtesy of MB.
------------------------------
Edit after the charge system analysis:
- Failed alternator control can lead to deep battery discharging: after a while driving around daytime, car may consistently deeply discharge the main battery below 11.xV instead of floating at 12.6
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 05-27-2021 at 09:17 PM. Reason: EDT2: fancy failure
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Yaz-350 (04-14-2021)
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,121
Likes: 1,753
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Just to put some perspective to it >>> MB is famous driving MACHINE.
Electronics are not their specialty and when you follow the list
W123 has electronic tachometers and CC - very common failure
W124 has electronic CC - very common failure
W210 has electronic transmission - very common failure, mainly on connector and then electronic cluster like to loose displays.
Not to mention that MB logistics drove me crazy more than once.
Still early years electronic BMW would put car in limp mode, when door switch malfunction.
So at least MB avoided that glitch.
Electronics are not their specialty and when you follow the list
W123 has electronic tachometers and CC - very common failure
W124 has electronic CC - very common failure
W210 has electronic transmission - very common failure, mainly on connector and then electronic cluster like to loose displays.
Not to mention that MB logistics drove me crazy more than once.
Still early years electronic BMW would put car in limp mode, when door switch malfunction.
So at least MB avoided that glitch.
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 3,867
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
AMZ too !!
Just to put some perspective to it >>> MB is famous driving MACHINE.
Electronics are not their specialty and when you follow the list
W123 has electronic tachometers and CC - very common failure
W124 has electronic CC - very common failure
W210 has electronic transmission - very common failure, mainly on connector and then electronic cluster like to loose displays.
Not to mention that MB logistics drove me crazy more than once.
Still early years electronic BMW would put car in limp mode, when door switch malfunction.
So at least MB avoided that glitch.
Electronics are not their specialty and when you follow the list
W123 has electronic tachometers and CC - very common failure
W124 has electronic CC - very common failure
W210 has electronic transmission - very common failure, mainly on connector and then electronic cluster like to loose displays.
Not to mention that MB logistics drove me crazy more than once.
Still early years electronic BMW would put car in limp mode, when door switch malfunction.
So at least MB avoided that glitch.
Let's see how fast Amazon switches to a different unrelated brand or stick with the maintenance chaos Benz designed for their commercial vehicles.
We are not alone .... LOL
#37
Yep, indeed these cars are designed with multiple independent networks for safety reasons. So bumpers or mirrors should NEVER bring down the engine or steering...
TEN separate data networks :
LIN signaling: used for alternator control and main battery sensing
CAN-A Telematics: (mBrace, radio ...)
CAN-B Interior: (Doors, Roof, KeylessG, Seats ...) + Rear-SAM
CAN-C Drive train: (only Motor & Gearbox)
CAN-E1 Chassis: (Camera, blind spot, IgnitionSw... ) + Me-SFI
CAN-E2 :
CAN-F Central Command ...)
CAN-H VehDynamics: Distronic, BlinSpot...
CAN-I Engine: fuel and Nox
CAN-L Hybrid: electric cars
CGW: Central Gateway by Bosch
FWGW: Chassis Gateway by Lear
Insight share:
- Battery Control commands deep discharging: after a while driving around daytime, alternator is commanded to deeply discharge the main battery below 12V
- Central Gateway by Bosch : this core module interconnects all the car networks together. It acts as a data router between buse
- ME-SFI by Bosch runs CAN-C but is also connected directly to CAN-E.
TEN separate data networks :
LIN signaling: used for alternator control and main battery sensing
CAN-A Telematics: (mBrace, radio ...)
CAN-B Interior: (Doors, Roof, KeylessG, Seats ...) + Rear-SAM
CAN-C Drive train: (only Motor & Gearbox)
CAN-E1 Chassis: (Camera, blind spot, IgnitionSw... ) + Me-SFI
CAN-E2 :
CAN-F Central Command ...)
CAN-H VehDynamics: Distronic, BlinSpot...
CAN-I Engine: fuel and Nox
CAN-L Hybrid: electric cars
CGW: Central Gateway by Bosch
FWGW: Chassis Gateway by Lear
Insight share:
- Battery Control commands deep discharging: after a while driving around daytime, alternator is commanded to deeply discharge the main battery below 12V
- Central Gateway by Bosch : this core module interconnects all the car networks together. It acts as a data router between buse
- ME-SFI by Bosch runs CAN-C but is also connected directly to CAN-E.
Saved for future reference.
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 3,867
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Lucky options pack!
If you've never witnessed your main battery below 12V while driving daytime, you should be ok.
What explains the difference is the set of options you have may work better.
Do you see any recurring module faults ... ?
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 3,867
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Added EDT2: "Fancy failure" to post #34 - This explains the failures that bring down the Bosch system.
Bottom line: you want the least amount of CAN-Bus faults, as simple as that!
Bottom line: you want the least amount of CAN-Bus faults, as simple as that!