W212 E350 4Matic Central Gateway n93 issues
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,924
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
you mean low-voltage causing this... not impossible! Only you know the history of this vehicle.
I TOTALLY ENCOURAGE you to float your main battery and to keep an eye on car voltage display while driving. Glitches can easily soft-crash MB ECU's and quit controlling the ALT. It the deeply drain the main battery until next key cycle.
Not all cars affected but many chassis are.
Is this what's happening on your car: nothing is pointing at that issue. Your DTC fault says short to (+)... gather evidence we can help you with.
I TOTALLY ENCOURAGE you to float your main battery and to keep an eye on car voltage display while driving. Glitches can easily soft-crash MB ECU's and quit controlling the ALT. It the deeply drain the main battery until next key cycle.
Not all cars affected but many chassis are.Is this what's happening on your car: nothing is pointing at that issue. Your DTC fault says short to (+)... gather evidence we can help you with.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,924
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
it's gonna be difficult to crank any car on less than 12Volts. Charge your battery before it sulfates itself dead.
Eliminate problems one at a time to make overall progress.
Eliminate problems one at a time to make overall progress.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,924
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
all righty
Everything in this picture looks satisfying:
Nice big Bosch branded AGM battery.
The vent hose is connected.
Hyundai looks oxidized like it is getting hot (90Amp punches?).
Charge it to full
Nice big Bosch branded AGM battery.
The vent hose is connected.
Hyundai looks oxidized like it is getting hot (90Amp punches?).
Charge it to full
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6,601
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From: Jakarta-Indonesia
2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Note : N93 is inside the Front SAM N10/1.
In theory :
Short to positive will shoot up the voltage of the CAN BUS E1 ( chassis ) at X30/30 ( Green and White /Green ) above 5V and can be up to 12V
So it is not defective X30/30 per se, it is some wire carrying +12V its insulator wounded and the chassis CAN E1 data cable also has insulator wounded and they "kissed"
that is how the +12V is injected to CAN E1.
This accidental kissing can happen anywhere, usually at high density bundle, bend or pressed/squeezed cables.
First is to measure at X30/30 block for voltages above 5V.
CAN BUS is 5V only.
In theory :
Short to positive will shoot up the voltage of the CAN BUS E1 ( chassis ) at X30/30 ( Green and White /Green ) above 5V and can be up to 12V
So it is not defective X30/30 per se, it is some wire carrying +12V its insulator wounded and the chassis CAN E1 data cable also has insulator wounded and they "kissed"
that is how the +12V is injected to CAN E1.This accidental kissing can happen anywhere, usually at high density bundle, bend or pressed/squeezed cables.
First is to measure at X30/30 block for voltages above 5V.
CAN BUS is 5V only.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,924
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
gateways, bridges and packets traffic...
Many modules have the ability to "act as gateways" across networks or may simply work on multiple buses without advertising doing so for other modules. I'd call these modules BRIDGES (SAM, ECU, IC, IGN,...) eventhough they may be refered to as "gateways" adding to the confusion.
The gateway N93 itself is located in passenger footwell, strapped to that thick aluminum plate. It's an honest well built module, the real deal! Its only job is to act as a bridge between CAN's and connect the DLC port for OBD access. It not working other functions make this main bridge the Gateway.
Cars featuring the sofisticated Bosch CAN design may suffer from the interesting issues of bridges bottlenecking packet traffic with "store and forward". Datagrams carry priority tags to get sorted and acted upon. There are issues when lesser priority CAN data get expired then discarded. That's where matured software come into play with robustness or not, to manage packet resends and missings... New anything, new problem!
The gateway N93 itself is located in passenger footwell, strapped to that thick aluminum plate. It's an honest well built module, the real deal! Its only job is to act as a bridge between CAN's and connect the DLC port for OBD access. It not working other functions make this main bridge the Gateway.
Cars featuring the sofisticated Bosch CAN design may suffer from the interesting issues of bridges bottlenecking packet traffic with "store and forward". Datagrams carry priority tags to get sorted and acted upon. There are issues when lesser priority CAN data get expired then discarded. That's where matured software come into play with robustness or not, to manage packet resends and missings... New anything, new problem!
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Aug 3, 2022 at 04:35 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,924
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
small-small MB world... w221 latency bugs
Many modules have the ability to "act as gateways" across networks or may simply work on multiple buses without advertising doing so for other modules. I'd call these modules BRIDGES (SAM, ECU, IC, IGN,...) eventhough they may be refered to as "gateways" adding to the confusion.
The gateway N93 itself is located in passenger footwell, strapped to that thick aluminum plate. It's an honest well built module, the real deal! Its only job is to act as a bridge between CAN's and connect the DLC port for OBD access. It not working other functions make this main bridge the Gateway.
Cars featuring the sofisticated Bosch CAN design may suffer from the interesting issues of bridges bottlenecking packet traffic with "store and forward". Datagrams carry priority tags to get sorted and acted upon. There are issues when lesser priority CAN data get expired then discarded. That's where matured software come into play with robustness or not, to manage packet resends and missings... New anything, new problem!
The gateway N93 itself is located in passenger footwell, strapped to that thick aluminum plate. It's an honest well built module, the real deal! Its only job is to act as a bridge between CAN's and connect the DLC port for OBD access. It not working other functions make this main bridge the Gateway.
Cars featuring the sofisticated Bosch CAN design may suffer from the interesting issues of bridges bottlenecking packet traffic with "store and forward". Datagrams carry priority tags to get sorted and acted upon. There are issues when lesser priority CAN data get expired then discarded. That's where matured software come into play with robustness or not, to manage packet resends and missings... New anything, new problem!
Here's the screen capture:
- Gateway failing on CAN-C Timeout (ie. disruptions!)
- ECU tries to recover from data missing
- random modules pull "plausibility check": bad data
- fuel filter sensor in buggy state
source mbworld w221 post located here.
> Know your machine:
When the CAN's are not busy repeating failed transfers the tranny noticeably shifts much faster, like a machine gun, seemlessly up or down.
The flip side to that is.... the tranny hanging on gears for no reasons or banging up or down with delayed slow shifts. All under the radar with zero DTC reported, like it sucks but computer thinks it's normal. Speaking of which w221 was know for crapy tranny operations... now you know why! Not all CAN (B vs. C) are created equal or disfunction the same
Engine power is matching as well: either pushy weak engine -Or torquey smooth with a firm responsive pedal, courtesy of CAN and remote modules.
Good CAN is day and night vehicle performance 😊
The missing part is how to troubleshoot above and beyond without any faults. Even the developers don't test for these integration limits where untested bugs are born.
> De-glitching buggy cars:
I suspect this is kept under wrap because what is bugging CAN is not easily fixed in the field. To gain clear visibility we need eyes on packets retransmits and bandwidth useage.
When both are high that is evidence of the problem plaguing many vehicles.
These simple statistics could be a practical matrix to measure quality. A troublesome car on the used lot would be easy to spot... not good for business.
Without understanding everything, just remember that VIP module software deliver the best engine timings when networks are fluid. One remote issue can snowball into an expensive lean misfire... fixed by a REBOOT!
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Aug 4, 2022 at 03:44 PM.
