E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550

Relay Maintenance & what you probably do not know

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Old 08-16-2021, 04:56 PM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Relay Maintenance & what you probably do not know

Gang,

Continuation of this post : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-87m-50-a.html

Its about time I need to verify the relay's clamping diodes as healthy, latching action as smooth and relay's contact point do not produce excessive voltage drop.

Got myself this simple relay tester, but it does not do LOAD test. So no use.
https://id.aliexpress.com/i/1005002352890656.html

Also the Front SAM has 3 relays with 2 very big spade blades of 9.5mm instead of the common 6.3mm at pin 30 and 87, so it can not be tested using common relay tester.




At ignition ON ( position 2 ) , before engine start, these 5 relays will start to operate.
This is a 30 minute relays being powered and I have not even started the engine. I was messing with my scanner only.
Ambient temp is at 30C










Relay R is the hottest, coz it is smallest I guess.


I can't measure actual current flowing at Relay R, as I have not yet made the DUMMY RELAY.
I am going to make one soon....


Our computer-infested MB today do not use the old simple relay anymore, its a bit more upscale and all of the relays used has clamping diode at the relay coil
pin/terminal 85 & 86 to prevent back EMF pushing 300+ volts back to the 12V DC system.

I can't find this Hella part number at Hella catalog. They custom made and number it for MB, I am sure.
https://www.hella.com/partnerworld/a...e_HELLA_EN.pdf


The drawing on the relay showed a resistor at coil's 86 - 86 pin, that is not true. That is a clamping diode.
I tested the coil resistance and it is only 88 ohms. If that is a resistor, it will show much higher resistance even in parallel.
Also a resistor is not good for certain wiring configuration. Diode is better.


============================== EDIT 17 Aug 2021 :================================================
I used the parallel resistor calculator here https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/too...ce-calculator/
It seems the schematic on the relay is accurate , the coil 85 - 86 seems to be using a resistor and not a clamping diode.
Based on Hella with coil resistance of 100 ohms and parallel resistor of 680 ohms, the reading will be 87.18 ohms and that is 88 ohms I measure. My apology.


This video shows a clamping diode in action and its nice, the voltage spike from back EMF is so low !! Awesome.
However, without the clamping diode his coil was pumping up to 700volt back EMF, damn !!!


================== END OF EDIT ======================


So don't cheap out when replacing the relays, get OE one with the clamping diode, even if say you install accesories not original to the car and needs a relay.
Yes, you can solder a cheap clamping diode on a common relay, if you so wish for accessories but no place for it at Front SAM or rear SAM.

Also becareful, pin physical positions on a relay are NOT always the same.




The common relay.... No clamping diode protection , back EMF at 388 volts spike for 1 milli second









Now the good news for the extra $$ the MB relay cost.

RELAY LOAD TEST.
Load bank is 12.4 amps, Halogen 50 watts x 3. Below

Above is battery drain test. Will post when ready.



Voltage drop across pin 30 and 87, MB relay shows better result for same size relay.





MB very mini relay. Relay R that hottest one and same with relay O ( O as in orange ), these yes, the voltage drop is equal to that common BOSCH relay.




Will continue.........................

Last edited by S-Prihadi; 08-17-2021 at 08:01 AM. Reason: add corrected info
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Old 08-17-2021, 10:57 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Special attention is needed for the Relay M, which is the engine starter relay. It drives the solenoid of the starter motor. This is probably the highest power of any coil/solenoid in the entire car.
This relay is a 5 pin and not 4 pin. It has clamping diode at the OUTPUT of the relay.
When energized, pin 30 deliver power to pin 87 thru the contact closing and when engine already run, the coil de-energized and 30 will connect to 87a which is the normally closed.
87a has a clamping diode and is connected to ground. So this clamping diode protects the car from back EMF of the solenoid of the starter motor.
This relay has the resistor for back EMF reduction for its coil 85 - 86 like other relay.







Relay M wiring...








I hate it when schematics are split this way, from sheet 6 to trace 31 ( negative ) and then jumping to sheet 1. If only there is an autocad version where 1 page can contain everything, it will be awesome for tracing.



The last relay in engine bay, not inside the Front SAM is this one. Tested, its good.


Its the same relay P/N as relay B of REAR SAM*....*for my car. Tyco brand.






THE RELAY LOAD TESTER WIRE SET - DIY



The relay receiver block for the very mini relay comes from a Japanase car parts. The common Bosch/Hella type relay receiver block, is easy find.


The momentary switch ( has push red dot ) is from a small truck brake light switch



Below is a dummy relay, also DIY. This is to test circuit powered by 30/87 and the circuit commanding a relay coil 85/86 at front or rear SAM ...........when needed.
Bought a BOSCH relay, tear down the internals and solder the 4 wires. Only use the Bosch 4 pins blade and its casing.






In the course of testing all fuses and relay function at Front SAM.
I have choosen and modify some tools to ease my work and also to be kept in the car during long distance run.

01. My car does not come with a fuse puller. So I placed 2 at front SAM.
I tried them with a bungie cord, so that it will not fly off and sink into the crevices of front SAM.

02. Due to the wiper arm blocking my hand from pulling fuses closest to firewall, pulling a fuse even with a fuse puller clip is a problem.
The plastic fuse puller is not "rigid" enough and I do not have the leverage of clearance on top of the fuse. A plier can help here.

03. Some relays and fuses are so close together, my fingers can't fit on its side to pull them out.
I found a unique-ly bent plier with bent angle and direction suitable for this pulling work.
I added 3M rubber tape to make the plier teeth less slippery and not damaging to the relay body.






This unique plier https://www.toolsource.com/needle-no...-p-122156.html


Now for a good laugh....
All difficult to pull fuses, I drill them and tied a string...YES I did.
All fuses labeled with white electrical tape and marking for their amperage, are fuses UN-USED in my car and they can be spare fuse.
Best to not allow empty fuse/s slot/s in Front SAM or Rear SAM, this cut down error when in a hurry while plugging off a blown fuse and inserting a new one back......BUT.....into the WRONG SLOT !!!











FUSE PULLER
I never knew ATO fuse shoulder can come in different thickness among different brand.
So watch out when buying fuse puller. My MB fuse is a thick shoulder, the white fuse puller un-modified can not "claw" the shoulder, the yellow fuse puller can.
LittleFuse brand, its ATO fuse has thinner shoulder and the un-modified white fuse puller fits well. LOL.
Simple thing complicates us.





EXPECTED LIFE OF THE RELAYS
For my car, with average speed so far during non-covid at 20 - 21 KM/H, per 10,000KM or 6,000 Miles = 500 hours of relay latching its coil.
The frequency of latching probably won't be a problem, the amount of time the coil 85/86 get heated so much from engine bay heat radiation and its own coil generating heat will probably be the failure point
for the 5 relays which will have to be energized when ever the car is at iginition key position 2, or in use with engine running.

In a 220V/380V contactor , not used for motor starting/operation with high latching frequency of use, but more for long term latching, I would say 24,000 hours or 3 years is about its
maximum useable life before the coil started humming. However, this is in an electrical panel rarely seeing 36C ambient temperature.
Our car main engine bay and even the secondary engine bay where the Front SAM is, that is a temeprature zone no industrial electrical panel will ever see
or allowed to be operated at. Plus all the vibration from our engine + transmission and the road surfaces and all the yada yada torturing conditions
these relays work at..... I think I will be using 4,000 hours as maximum coil latching life or 10 years.
4,000 hours will equate to 80,000KM of my useage profile.
I wont even hit this mileage at 10 years car age. I am now at 30,600 KM . July 2014 as start of registration.
Annually I can do the relay health check, for database sake.

The relay is a worry for me for possible intermittent behaviour.
Total failure is easy to find, but if its contact points 30/87 has pitting and produce some sort of contact bounce, at certain load and temperature,
it will be a nightmare to find such disturbance. Learning from pulling fuses and relays one by one at Front SAM and watching the troublecode generated and shut down by software/CAN-BUS of certain components
not directly powered by these fuses/relays is daunting.

END.



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Old 08-17-2021, 12:51 PM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Relay EMF

Relays are another interesting topic that can rain troubles on their way out. Relay back EMF is a transistor killer... In the early 80's I was tired of adjusting the ignition points on my Honda motorcycle... so I built an electronic ignition with a recycled TV flyback TO-3 transistor because of it's built-in diode. I never had to set timing again !

The contacts aging for a given relay depends on its metal alloy, load type, load rating and cycle count. Traditionally fuel pump and fan relays were toughest applications but Benz has replaced them with smart electronic modules to handle the switching (SAM's, FAN, FuelPCU...)

MB did manage to mix in some bad SAM relays for us to practice troubleshooting skills (TSB#LI54.15-P-057373). I've replaced the relay collection as soon as I found out.

I guess a good way to analyze these relays is to sort them in a spreadsheet... with cycle rating, current, etc.

​​​​​Sorted by ...:
  1. show-stopper (powertrain),
  2. must-have (A/C),
  3. nice to have (audio,...).
This way the similar ones can easily be swapped around for less worn-out units.

ECO-Starter relay:
The big question is how long does a starter built for ECO takes to burn out its fat contactor!??


​​​​​

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 08-17-2021 at 10:24 PM. Reason: TSB No
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Old 08-17-2021, 07:01 PM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Your Honda bike reminded me of my late 80s Toyota engine. 1E, 1 liter very simple low cost engine in a Toyota Starlet P70
It still uses the contact point for the ignition. Every 2,500KM I had to replace it, because I was a red line revver all day long...LOL.


Finally I got a 3rd party transistor type ignition no more pitting contact points.

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Old 08-17-2021, 10:33 PM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
I located the TSB regarding flaky relays...
"Various fault codes concerning disrupted communication paths are stored and/or the corresponding control units are not displayed in the quick test.
Affected control units include the transmission control unit, electronic ignition lock, driver SAM, engine control unit, Lane Keeping Assist, Distronic..."

LI54.15-P-057373: "Vehicle does not start, vehicle starts with a delay... modules inoperative"
Applicable to Models: Model series 204/207/212/218/231/246/176/117/172 production month 11/2012 up to 09/2013

Remedy: ONLY REPLACE MICRO RELAYS (picture: micro-relay) MADE BY HELLA WITHIN THE RELEVANT DATE CODE RANGE 2248 - 3159

Hope these tips help.
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Old 08-18-2021, 12:36 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
I located the TSB regarding flaky relays...
"Various fault codes concerning disrupted communication paths are stored and/or the corresponding control units are not displayed in the quick test.
Affected control units include the transmission control unit, electronic ignition lock, driver SAM, engine control unit, Lane Keeping Assist, Distronic..."

LI54.15-P-057373: "Vehicle does not start, vehicle starts with a delay... modules inoperative"
Applicable to Models: Model series 204/207/212/218/231/246/176/117/172 production month 11/2012 up to 09/2013

Remedy: ONLY REPLACE MICRO RELAYS (picture: micro-relay) MADE BY HELLA WITHIN THE RELEVANT DATE CODE RANGE 2248 - 3159

Hope these tips help.
Thanks so much Cali.

Dang !!......... MB Indonesia is an azzhole.
My car is a model year 2014, and up to July 2017 it was under warranty ( 1st owner ).
So basically it has been "watched" over by MB Indonesia for 3 years and they do not even bother to replace ALL of the micro relay in my car back then.
USA TSB date is 28th Feb 2014.... 3 years of doing nothing.
3rd world country treatment from MB HQ Germany. I even wrote to them MB Indonesia asking about Tanaka Airbag recall and they never bother to reply.
BUT...the logged my email and sent me their new models launch

In the 90s, for the E300 W124, MB Indonesia equipped it with only an HR rated tires, which is a 210 KM/H max speed for a car capable of more than 210 KM/H, about 230 KM/H.
Life is cheap in 3rd world country !!! Do that in USA, they will get sucked dry by lawyers. It will be Tire-Gate, not Diesel-Gate

All four of my micro Hella relays fall within the effected date.... 2 at Front SAM are 3135 and 2 at Rear SAM are 3124.
Relay, at Rear SAM, position A & G, . A 002 542 11 19
Relay, at Front SAM, position O & R, .A 002 542 83 19

I already ordered 1 of each P/N micro relay as back up 2 weeks ago. I guess I need to buy 3 more. So replace all 4 and carry 1 spare.
I ordered all of the relays used in my car. Some 2 pcs, some only 1 pc. Depending on how many are used.
Can you believe they got to get the relays from MB Singapore ? what a crappy inventory management.


=====================********===================== =========

Cause: The micro-relays in the fuse and relay boxes (SRB) in the engine compartment or rear compartment may have a malfunction and not close correctly.

Due to this malfunction, there are disruptions to the communication paths and no power supply to various systems.
Only affects relays manufactured by Hella with a Date Code (picture: Assignment of Date Codes) from 2248 to 3159.

If the faulty micro-relay(s) of the problem systems fall(s) within the batch carrying this Date Code,
then all the micro-relays in the fuse and relay boxes listed below in the vehicle should be checked and likewise replaced if their Date Code is between 2248 and 3159

To read the date code:
First digit: Year of production 2=2012
Digits two through four: Day of production year

Note: The problems may occur only intermittently, so diagnosis of the relays is not always possible and the fault may not always be reproducible.

===================******========================= ====
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Old 08-18-2021, 04:01 AM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
An Oz of preventive maintenance...

I am glad I could shine some light on this known issue with our SAM relays... more power to you now 👍

We like contactors that are reliable without ghost modules or limp modes...
✌️

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 08-18-2021 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:09 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Okey, got all the relays and maxi fuses from MB Indonesia.
Since I special ordered all relays on my car and maxi fuse too before I did front SAM fuse designation audit, by the time I finished auditing the front SAM..... I realized not all relays and the maxi fuse 40A are being used ..LOL.

Anyway I have replaced all 4 micro relay effected by the TSB.
The new ones are Tyco ( TE Connectivity group ), 3 of them.
All tested good : back EMF coil wise and the pin 30/87 voltage drop.

The above number is the one reccomended by TSB as alternative. I got 3 of these.

4th one I got is of a newer date Hella . 2019-Day 231.


But this Hella the pins are like used relay or lacking of full nickel coating




Interesting 101 on relay, courtesy of TE Connectivity.
https://www.te.com/commerce/Document...%7F3-1393292-8
https://www.te.com/commerce/Document...%7F3-1393292-8

" Recommendations for Diagnostic Routines :
A contact diagnostic routine must: Take into account, that the contact resistance may be non-linear.
Due to the explained fritting phenomena, the contact resistance can be non-linear. This means, that the contact resistance, measured at low voltage and current levels (e.g. standard multimeter) can be significantly higher than the contact resistance under real conditions (e.g. supplying a 100W load). We recommend to perform the diagnostic routine with the real application and real board net voltage connected."


Thanks again Cali. I would never have spotted the TSB for this micro relay.






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Old 06-08-2024, 04:31 AM
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W212 E350CDI, E200CDI, W201 190D
Thanks Cali. I had exactly this problem on our 2013 W212 E200CDI. Loss of communications with transmission, car would not start. Could be fine after standing a few hours. Searching on net i found your post and the mikro relays had date 3016. Changed all in front SAM and rear SAM. (4 off) and now car is fine!
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Old 06-08-2024, 02:25 PM
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2014 E550 4Matic, former: 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
What does this relay actually do? I was looking at it in my engine bay yesterday. I pulled the part number, but that was just for the cover. I took the cover off and broke one of the locking tabs, so have that on order. Inside is the relay which is simply called "multifunction relay" which I guess is used in several places on the car. What does this instance control?

It's interesting that they put this in the middle of an open area as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to replace. I wish MB did this with the fuel pump relay on the 560SL. Who puts a mission-critical component which is known to have a high failure rate behind another giant relay, a climate control module, a ventilation hose, and the glove box lining?


Old 06-08-2024, 02:43 PM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Bank2 cooling on NA

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu
What does this relay actually do? I was looking at it in my engine bay yesterday. I pulled the part number, but that was just for the cover. I took the cover off and broke one of the locking tabs, so have that on order. Inside is the relay which is simply called "multifunction relay" which I guess is used in several places on the car. What does this instance control?

It's interesting that they put this in the middle of an open area as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to replace. I wish MB did this with the fuel pump relay on the 560SL. Who puts a mission-critical component which is known to have a high failure rate behind another giant relay, a climate control module, a ventilation hose, and the glove box lining?

I think the full-size relay in the picture runs the auxiliary coolant pump.
Nothing simple so TT/NA use that pump entirely differently.

NA heater core is inline with 100% of the coolant flow to the Bank2 head... the water pump is under rev'ed to save energy = slow flow = higher heat on B2 vs. B1.

The coolant temp sensor is mounted at the back of said Bank2... so it can sense high/low heat and request auxiliary pump to cool engine in summer or heat cabin in winter.

The Aux pump and it's relay don't have high failure rate on NA chassis.

When Aux pump is stopped the flow through it for the whole Bank2 must be dismal to "save a lot of gasoline"

> Extra-HOT engine cooling:
W212AMG Ken programmed his pump to run non-stop to cool his TT better.

I did try that and went back to stock settings once I got my engine extreme heat back to normal with "MOD-2.1"...

Now you understand why the Temp gauge on IC Display shows values more/less related to effective temperature. The "idiot-gauge" is useless as engines on MOD-0 are setup to pack extreme heat without advertisement under the radar.


Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 06-08-2024 at 03:19 PM.
Old 06-08-2024, 03:22 PM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
That relay is called K60. Controlled by engine computer N3/10 and the Fuse 22 is from Front SAM.
It is for M45 Coolant Circulation pump of charge air cooler for M276.8 Turbo, M278 and M157.
The wiring is as described below : I made my own fuse guide book. Good thing M276.8 and M278/M157 shares a lot of similarity on what fuse serve what devices . I guess because of similar MED177 engine computer family.




MB Introduction booklets for M276.8 Turbo and M278 got it wrong, they called the pump M44.



...










.




=====






.




Do not get confused when reading another or the 2nd COOLANT CIRCULATION PUMP....
The small coolant pump 6 o'clock of the black top coolant bottle is M13/5 and that is for HVAC heater core to have better flow when HEAT is required.
That one is powered and controlled by Front SAM.







The should name M45 Coolant Pump for charge air cooler.



Last edited by S-Prihadi; 06-08-2024 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 06-08-2024, 06:20 PM
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2014 E550 4Matic, former: 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
Great stuff... So if I'm reading that right, there are 3 water pumps in my car: the main engine water pump, the HVAC auxiliary pump, and the charge air cooler pump?

Cali, what were MOD 1.0 and 2.0?
Old 06-09-2024, 01:33 AM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
terminal cyl. damage

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu
Great stuff... So if I'm reading that right, there are 3 water pumps in my car: the main engine water pump, the HVAC auxiliary pump, and the charge air cooler pump?

Cali, what were MOD 1.0 and 2.0?
​​​​​​these MOD levels relate to different RPM necessary to spray-cool pistons based on oil viscosity.

Stock engines are dry-lubed below 3500.RPM - This may cause terminal damage when repairs cost more than overall value: RIP surprise!

Check

Engine oil viscosity is easily affected by temps... so scheduled oil change are recommended at early intervals with "MB Approved Oils".
​​​​

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 06-09-2024 at 01:53 AM. Reason: M276/8 engines

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