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Decent shock absorbers for a non-Airmatic suspension?
Hi,
(w212 250cdi 4matic)
I’m trying to find some information on Google, but it seems impossible. Basically a year ago I’ve put a set of brand new bilstein B4 and to say I’m disappointed is an understatement. It’s the worst of both worlds- the car floats like a boat o smooth roads, the front end bottoms up easily, but on the other hand, it’s really harsh on the bumps and potholes. At first I thought that maybe something is broken, or I’ve bought a wrong shocks. But it turns out, that it’s a normal behaviour of this suspension due to the DampMatic system which seems to be valved completely wrong- it’s super soft on low speed compression, but gets super stiff on high speed compression. So no comfort, no handling.
What I’m looking for is flat, supple ride and a proper damping on potholes etc. I’ve had Bilstein B6 and B4 in my previous cars and I get the difference between them, but my question is: does the B6 has also the same “DampMatic” characteristics as B4 in this model, or is it valved like other ‘normal’ B6s?
I don’t want to spend money on B6 just to find out is as bad as B4 or even worse…
Or maybe if not Bilstein- what could be a decent solution for this car? I know there’s a KW V3 which I have in my M3 and i love it, but I don’t want to spend this much on an E class. Also I don’t want to lower the car.
All this talk of changing shocks... My 20 year-old MB has its original shocks, still. They work like new.
Sometimes I think you guys change things just because you think you need to, when you don't.
Mercedes-Benz engineers know better that us what our cars need. Do you now wish you had the OEM shocks back?
At what mileage? Generally, once you start passing 100k the suspension is getting tired between the shocks and bushings, exception would be certain ball joints which can go longer. It gradual, so you don't notice... till you put new ones in. Then again, if the current ones are firm, not harsh or pogo'y, with not visible oil leaks... then your good to go.
All this talk of changing shocks... My 20 year-old MB has its original shocks, still. They work like new.
Sometimes I think you guys change things just because you think you need to, when you don't.
Mercedes-Benz engineers know better that us what our cars need. Do you now wish you had the OEM shocks back?
Come on. It sounds like you have no comparison how a proper suspension should be working. It’s just an old E class, not a Bugatti. Look at those tiny brakes, poor sound isolation, lack of seat adjustment for taller people or a gearbox with a lag bigger than a cargo space of an estate... maybe Engineers knows better, but certainly accountants do not. It’s all about compromises.
No, I don’t want go back to factory shocks. They had exactly the same problem, not mentioning the one was leaking.
And here’s a quote from Bilstein: In cooperation with Mercedes-Benz, we have developed BILSTEIN DampMatic® technology. At lower speeds, it automatically reduces the damping force and ensures greater driving comfort. When the movements are more intense, the damping force is increased to improve the vehicle stability. This premium technology is the ideal OE replacement for all BILSTEIN DampMatic®-equipped Mercedes-Benz vehicles.
Which in real world means- shock absorber is soft when the road is flat, what causes a lot of body movement and decreases handling/ or it gets stiff on a bumps, so it transfers all that energy to the body instead of absorbing it…
Nothing to add here…
Most of the bushings are brand new- including engine and gearbox mounts, so the problem is clearly a poor valving of OEM Replacement shock absorbers. That’s why I’m looking for something better. I don’t mind it to be slightly stiffer to get rid of that floating ride, but with a proper damping on bumps and potholes
Did you change the springs? Mine were sitting lower so I changed both the springs and the struts and used Bilstein B4. The springs can sag over time. It's way better than it was before. I also did rear springs and shocks earlier so it's like a new suspension.
By the fluid (oil) flow dynamics inside the damper, dampers are kinda DampMatic by design. Damper people call dampers as velocity sensitive device. I guess, DampMatic is just a sales talk.
In simple term if we look at it like a water pump, its the increased head/resistance of oil flow when the pumping gets fast or higher volume ( car higher speed motion ) based on the fixed valve size in the damper.
I speak of pure mechanical dampers, no electronic whatsoever. https://www.monroe.com.au/trade-corn...bers%20provide.
My OE SACHS is like a boat and scarry at high speed lane change ( slow controlled lane change and not Moose test type ) passed 110MPH.
In fact Bilstein B4 is quiter than the OE SACHS, over normal roads surface.
As for potholes harness, it depends on the shape and size of the pot hole and the speed. Bilstein B4 is no worse than OE SACHS, for me.
Your S212 is a station wagon, mine is a W212.
It could be weight distribution difference between our cars which produce different result on the Bilstein B4. Find below my car data : RWD, not a 4 matic.
One thing I noticed is : a hatchback or station wagon body shape, where there is no noise barrier as much as a 4 door common sedan shape between the trunk and the main cabin, road or suspension noise is higher from the rear.
More so if the car has those fabric based or soft material boot partition, like below : Sometimes the partition itself is the noise generator, on bad roads.
Extra noise can translate to a sense of being "harsher".
Believe it or not, the metal boot partition ( speaker placement ) on a W212 can increase stifness of the car, probably as much as dumb-azz Pano roof ( on mine ) decrease the stifness of my car.
I sometime bring my car to the track to have fun fast driving and Bilstein B4 is really good for a standard type damper where comfort is as good as OE.
I now use B6 at the rear, but will not want a B6 at the front because its too firm for my averagely bad roads.
Perhaps the very adjustable KW v3 with bound and rebound control would be a good choice, so that you can tune it to your liking.
All this talk of changing shocks... My 20 year-old MB has its original shocks, still. They work like new.
Sometimes I think you guys change things just because you think you need to, when you don't.
Mercedes-Benz engineers know better that us what our cars need. Do you now wish you had the OEM shocks back?
I bet they don't work anything like new after 20 years....and further more I bet that if you fitted new shocks, even if they were exactly the same as the ones on there now it would feel like a new car. There performance drops off so slowly that you just don't notice it fading. I cannot find any shock manufacturer claiming their shocks last more than 50,000 miles...which is also the time most manufacturers recommend changing them. Imagine the heat cycles and bumps they have absorbed in the last 20 years....the oil in them will be well past it even if all the internal seals and valves are ok. My 2003 Grand Cherokee had 17 year old shocks when I changed them for new oem ones....the car felt so much tighter and with better body control I wished Id done it years ago!! Like you I thought they were fine. Only one getting a slight leak made me change all four.....like you, until that point, I thought they were fine too!
I replaced the tie-rod ends on my 20 year-old MB at 92,000 miles (15 years old). The car now has 148,000 miles on it and the shocks are fine... no leaks and they do what they are designed to do.
I could replace the shocks now, but doing so would cost more than the entire car is worth. So I'll keep my shocks and my opinion as stated, thank you.
Did you change the springs? Mine were sitting lower so I changed both the springs and the struts and used Bilstein B4. The springs can sag over time. It's way better than it was before. I also did rear springs and shocks earlier so it's like a new suspension.
Maybe it could be a good place to start. The ride height itself seems ok (there’s plenty of room between a wheel arch and tire), but it’s still a 10 year old sprig after all.
I’ve noticed that the ride gets much better when I put some weight in the trunk. Around 100kg/220lbs. I don’t know if it’s just due to the weight distribution, or perhaps it adds these few millimetres of travel that makes a difference 🤔 And this is the behaviour I’ll be happy with, but I don’t se myself adding bags of sand in the trunk 😂
It’s not really the noise I’m concerned with (I gave my car to a professional car audio guys to make it as quiet as possible- including wheels arches, floor, roof etc). It’s just a harsh, dead hit on potholes/ bumps. Like a wheels are made out of concrete…
Maybe it could be a good place to start. The ride height itself seems ok (there’s plenty of room between a wheel arch and tire), but it’s still a 10 year old sprig after all.
I’ve noticed that the ride gets much better when I put some weight in the trunk. Around 100kg/220lbs. I don’t know if it’s just due to the weight distribution, or perhaps it adds these few millimetres of travel that makes a difference 🤔 And this is the behaviour I’ll be happy with, but I don’t se myself adding bags of sand in the trunk 😂
It’s not really the noise I’m concerned with (I gave my car to a professional car audio guys to make it as quiet as possible- including wheels arches, floor, roof etc). It’s just a harsh, dead hit on potholes/ bumps. Like a wheels are made out of concrete…
Maybe a KW or Koni adjustable on the car shock would work for you, then you could customize the settings, dialing in rebound without having to remove them?
Ran into this thread because I'm in the market for an E550, and was hoping to find some suspension upgrade options for it. Bilstein shocks are generally pretty repairable/modifiable. Bilstein used to modify them in house, but it looks like they will only "refurbish to drawing specification" for non-motorsport shocks now: https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/techn...ledge/service/ However, I'd bet there are shock repair/tuning places that could change the compression/rebound curves to whatever you want within reason.
Ran into this thread because I'm in the market for an E550, and was hoping to find some suspension upgrade options for it. Bilstein shocks are generally pretty repairable/modifiable. Bilstein used to modify them in house, but it looks like they will only "refurbish to drawing specification" for non-motorsport shocks now: https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/techn...ledge/service/ However, I'd bet there are shock repair/tuning places that could change the compression/rebound curves to whatever you want within reason.
As far as I know, you can do whatever you want with B6/B8- due to the mono tube construction. B4 is theoretically unrebuildable (everything is possible, but it’s not worth the money).
adjustable shocks could be a thing, but Estate + 4matic is by far the worst combo if it comes to aftermarket parts…
By the fluid (oil) flow dynamics inside the damper, dampers are kinda DampMatic by design. Damper people call dampers as velocity sensitive device. I guess, DampMatic is just a sales talk.
In simple term if we look at it like a water pump, its the increased head/resistance of oil flow when the pumping gets fast or higher volume ( car higher speed motion ) based on the fixed valve size in the damper.
I speak of pure mechanical dampers, no electronic whatsoever. https://www.monroe.com.au/trade-corn...bers%20provide.
The question I have is are the B4's as comfortable as the OEM Sachs?
Don't know what that really means. Hard to say as I replaced my OEM Sachs with B4 and it's better than the Sachs, but that's because the Sachs were worn out and I didn't have the car when new. No complaints. And Bilstein B4 have a lifetime warranty unlike Sachs which I think is just 2 years, just like OEM MB struts.
Don't know what that really means. Hard to say as I replaced my OEM Sachs with B4 and it's better than the Sachs, but that's because the Sachs were worn out and I didn't have the car when new. No complaints. And Bilstein B4 have a lifetime warranty unlike Sachs which I think is just 2 years, just like OEM MB struts.
What the post that I quoted was suggesting is that the shocks were simply orifice dampers. As the link provided shows that is not the case but rather the shocks contain valving which controls the effective damping restrictors as a function of shock velocity.
02-04-2022, 04:05 AM
