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High beams on 160k-mile 2013 W212 wagon would not come on tonight. After 10 minutes of driving they came on briefly before going out.
In the ensuing 20 minutes they did this frequently, along with these other happenings:
During their brief periods on, the stalk selector had no effect—it would not shut them off.
On one occasion they came on when the stalk was set to low beams.
On one occasion a warning appeared saying the high-beam assist system was inop.
On a couple of occasions while the highs were working, one would fail.
When I got home I disabled high-beam assist, and still no high beams when selected.
Background: the blind-spot assist system has been inop for a couple of years. I’m happy just looking over my left shoulder or at mirrors.
Hoping someone can, haha, shed some light on this.
Thank you @konigstiger. I talked with my independent service provider today about the high-beam issue and he directed me to the M-B dealer, just as he had when I gave him my E63 to fix the AMG functions in the driver's seat. Today he elaborated on the problem thus: about 18 months ago M-B cut off the indies from accessing M-B software, citing the indies' use of "some gizmo made in China" for access.
He said the forward SAM module might be at the root of the high-beam problem, especially since the blind-spot warning system is also on the fritz.
Re the E63 AMG seat functions: M-B dealer said it would probably cost $1,500 to fix so I sat tight. If I move the switches immediately after startup I can get the lower-back support and side bolsters and the leading edge of the seat to inflate, but the massage and lateral g-induced support functions are kaput. If I forget to set them right after startup I'm out of luck.
@S-Prihadi@konigstiger I forgot to mention that this morning when I started the wagon I was able to select high beams but there was a significant lag between moving the stalk and getting the high-beams to light or shut off. This was the first startup since I disabled the high-beam assist last night.
=== Read the DTC codes first ========== 1st priority as always.
Even having 100+ hours ( so me not so newbie for Front SAM ) looking at Front SAM wiring diaghram, MB never ceased to amaze me.... on how good they are at confusing us the reader/user
I searched Front SAM and Rear SAM for Code 615 Bi-Xenon headlamp, I could not find it, because Front SAM wiring call it U501 Xenon headlamps
So sales wanna make it sounds more fancy by calling it Bi-Xenon, as though as its a twin bulb, nope it is a motorized reflector making Low & High Beam possible....and hence Code 615 Bi-Xenon was born.
My car is a 641/642 Dynamic LED version, so my apology if I never knew about how whacky the data is being represented by MB for Front SAM for the 615 Bi-Xenon....hence I need to rant.
WIS description for removing headlight, has Code 615 page.
Front SAM wiring only has Code 641/642 Dynamic LED or the Code 631/632 Static headlamp mentioned.
Enough rant....
======================
Attached the wiring diagram for your learning in ZIP.
In 608 adaptive high beam Function Schematic it shows how many components are involved for the AUTO high beam decision and excecution.
Focusing on Front SAM alone is not adviseable. Techy must have MB Xentry or 3rd party MB capable bi-directional scanner to trace down the faut narrower.
Before facelift, CAN-BUS G is the old name for CAN-BUS E2 (facelift). So Front SAM diagram calls your CAN-BUS as G.
Your indie surely has a decent MB capable scanner right ? My mid-level Autel MS806BT is good enough for such task and many indie in USA have higher end scanner than mine for sure.
01. First and foremost, to narrow down "bad-intermittent" component, you must disable the 608 auto high beam function, by completely using manual rotary headlight switch with low beam selected and use the high beam stalk/stick for high beam.
02. Using Xentry or bi-directional scanner, command high beam to be ON and all other function the scanner offers for headlight operation..... will this test run well ? If it does, most likely the CAN BUS and and High Beam solenoid E1i1 / E2i1 are good when cold.
I say most likely because when engine bay temperature get HOT, things can be different.
**Bear in mind, all command of light operations is digital signal via CAN BUS, no more easy real mechanical hardwire switches like older cars.**
03. Water intrusion or bad contact to the CAN BUS junction box or the CAN-BUS connector at the headlamp itself can cause Gremlins as you experience, hence you must do step 1 and 2 to make certain and hopefully
no bad modules.
04. Your high-low beam is actually a small solenoid moving up and down, changing reflector position. So aside from possible corrupted CAN BUS command or bad supporting modules, mechanically the high-low beam solenoid
can be the bad boy, but if both are the bad boys when the Gremlins strike, probably it is not mechanical side of things but more of the command side of things.
05. I can go on about scoping the CAN-BUS signal when the Gremlins strike, see if there are distortions on the signal. Distorted CAN-BUS signal can mean no command goes thru, or weird command be excecuted.
Stick to no 1 and 2 test for now before condemning the expensive parts.
Damn, I need to correct E1 Left HeadLight of yours. MB-WIS guys drew a wrong separator dotted line..... for U907 InfraRed/Night view assist.
I crossed out (black X ) too much component at the previous post . You are to write off the red zone U907 yah. Unless you have such option.
See how frustrating sorting out WHAT OPTIONS we do not have on the wiring diaghram, than what we actually have.... LOL.
@S-Prihadi Wow! Thank you for this wealth of information. My plan is to see exactly what diagnostic equipment my indy has, and whether he will reconsider his decision not to tackle the problem. Waiting for a call back this morning.
Failing that, I guess I have to give the car to the dealer. Will keep you updated.
Wonderful as always Surya, actually it's a flap in the headlight that blocks the light for low beam and raises out of the way for high beams, but I don't think that's the issue here, also Bi-xenon designates one bulb for high and low beam with lens movement for each, doesn't really apply though because our cars use a flap for low beams and the lens only moves according to the height sensors.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 04-23-2022 at 05:27 PM.
@S-Prihadi@konigstiger I forgot to mention that this morning when I started the wagon I was able to select high beams but there was a significant lag between moving the stalk and getting the high-beams to light or shut off.
This was the first startup since I disabled the high-beam assist last night.
Above we see how much complexity is deployed across a series of modules to deal with automatic headlights.
The indy shop and busy dealers are in no hury to tackle this type of network chaos. You get to wonder how to pick at this problem... there are a couple of different ways.
> The idea to select lights manually is a real good shortcut. It's simple, effective and free 👏
> When you read OP#1 mentioning the messed up blind-spot you get an example of lag and subsequent jam caused by the network being flooded with requests and retransmits. When you limit those, you get extremely responsive interactions.
We see that BS is on CAN-B, and HL on CAN-E2 yet they is interaction through the F-SAM that gets driven mad.
There should be no interaction issue across distinct networks, yet in my experience there clearly is through processing power & bottleneck.
> To restore proper headlights: fix known active faults that are loading down your car computers. I don't even think disconnecting rear BS sensors will allow monitoring unit to rest.
> A good temporary cure-all for unstable computers is a "battery reboot" in the garage and "Ignition key cycle" on the road - Enjoy your weekend.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 04-23-2022 at 10:58 PM.
Wonderful as always Surya, actually it's a flap in the headlight that blocks the light for low beam and raises out of the way for high beams, but I don't think that's the issue here, also Bi-xenon designates one bulb for high and low beam with lens movement for each, doesn't really apply though because our cars use a flap for low beams and the lens only moves according to the height sensors.
Thanks Pierre, that is a better explanation, the flap.
I recalled when Xenon was first used on cars, we in my region call them HID ( High Intensity Discharge ).
They were used as Low Beam and the halogen as high beam, so a true twin bulbs combo headlight. No xenon high-low beam flaps back then.
HID from OFF to full bright took like 5+ seconds , so it being an instant high beam is too slow.
It was back before year 2000, I went to a local Hella showroom and saw their big round Rallye series Xenon-HID , I think they call it series 3000 , something like that.
It was on display ready to test. So I tested fast switching ON-OFF style , as though as it is a halogen H4 twin filament bulb , the ballast went bad after a while.... LOL.
@S-Prihadi@konigstiger This is the M-B dealer service advisor’s explanation of work required to restore the high beams. His estimate for the job is $3,350 before tax.
“It’s CAN (controlled area network) corruption. Communication is missing between E1 and E2, the left and right headlamps. Continuation of that communication is the B29 (P29?) 4 and 5, which had to do an accommodation of the [inoperative for a year or so] rear left and right blind-spot sensors.
“The short-range blind-spot sensors on the rear of the vehicle need to be replaced. It’s $1,750 for the pair of sensors; $130 for the harness. The remainder of the $3,350 is four hours of labor [$600] to drop the rear bumper, install the sensors and harness and replace the bumper, and 5.8 hours of labor [$870] for the initial and secondary diagnostic work.
“There’s nothing actually wrong with the headlamps. It’s just not reading the spacing behind the vehicle. We don’t know why but that’s what it’s coming back to with the module itself, and the rear sensors are keeping the high beams from being activated.”
The service people at the dealer blame Upstate NY road salt for corroding the rear blind-spot sensors and harness. The from-new previous owner lived in Greenwich, CT and drove it year-round, as do I now as the second owner. The car is a 2013 model with 160,000 miles. I have told the dealer I want the removed parts so I can see if they are indeed corroded, which would bolster the hope that my Florida/Georgia-sourced, corrosion-free 2011 E63 (still driven only on salt-free roads in NY's warm season) can dodge this sort of problem.
If the removed parts confirm corrosion as the culprit, my question is this: Now that the carmakers have so enthusiastically embraced plastics, why do these absurdly complex and expensive systems remain vulnerable to the harshness of the environment they are driven in? Shouldn't plastics have eliminated this sort of failure?
I'm old enough to remember when $10 for a new pair of bulbs would restore the high beams.
B92/* is the radar sensor ID. I just completed watching videos on them ...LOL EDIT : B29/* is the sensor ID if for W212. Holy crap there are 2 variations Code 234 Blind Spot Assist & Code 237 Active Blind Assist.
Also depending on year the car is made, code 234 can have 2 different wiring diagram.
If you want one last try, a DIY, have a go by cleaning the electrical contacts at the sensor ( MALE ) and the connector (FEMALE ).
Who knows it is simply salty only doing Gremlin work and not up to damaging the internal board level of the radar sensor.
Thanks to all for your help and suggestions. The 2013 wagon now has high beams again after a month at the M-B dealer and $3,400. They saved the parts (blind-spot radar units and harness) and warned me I might want to don gloves before opening the boxes. They weren't kidding...
The dealer tech's diagnostics report reads thus:
Cause: The rear radar sensors (B29/4 and B29/5) are causing CAN corruption.
Correction: I performed an Initial Quick Test and procured an IQT log (with freeze-frame data; XENTRY, and separate printout of the freeze-frame data; DAS) There is CAN corruption/missing data over CAN for CAN G (front end CAN). There is no communication with E1 or E2 (left and right headlamps). There is no communication with B29/4 and B29/5 rear short-range blind spot assist sensor. There is no communication with A40/3. N87/5, N40/3 and N125 (not sure if related). Further diagnosis/diagnosis of CAN G.
Suggestions for Mercedes-Benz to consider:
Take a closer look at the durability of the plastics you use so widely in cars these days.
1/ Blind-spot radar sensor. Surely a good plastics engineering specialist can devise a genuinely sealed case, impervious to road salt, to house the blind-spot alert radar sensor, which spends its life downstream of the rear wheels in the crap they throw off in winter. The photos above (from 2013 E350 4matic wagon driven in Connecticut and Upstate New York winters for 10 years) suggest there's room for improvement in not only materials but placement too.
2/ Give the owner/driver some leeway to manage (ie ignore) a fancy-tech failure. When the car told me 18 months ago that the blind-spot warning system was malfunctioning, I shrugged it off and did it the old-fashioned way, using my neck and eyeballs. That worked fine until the CAN, apparently unable to endure the incessant bleating from the sick radar units, disabled the high beams.
3/ 2011 E63 AMG timing-gear covers. Usually when you seek out a final model-year example of a car, you can have a fair degree of confidence that it embodies fixes for the bugs of earlier models. My 2003 E39 M5 has been fantastically reliable. Not so my 2011 E63 AMG, the final model year for the W212 with the naturally aspirated 6.2-liter V8. It introduced black plastic timing-gear covers, replacing the aluminum covers used in preceding years. The dealer I bought the car from a year ago put new gaskets on the car's black plastic covers before I took delivery, but after a month or two the car was leaking oil badly. The covers were warped and I had to replace them ($2,250 installed by my indie). Why the switch from aluminum to plastic?
Calibenz will love that lol. Looks like if u take that module out that they replaced and seal the case along with spraying the ciruit board it would prevent the issue down the road. Thanks for the followup.
looks like prihadi already posted a video on doing that.
Calibenz will love that lol. Looks like if u take that module out that they replaced and seal the case along with spraying the ciruit board it would prevent the issue down the road. Thanks for the followup.
looks like prihadi already posted a video on doing that.
you are very wise @Quint22 ... that's 100% exactly what I did
I then went on to weatherize many/most connectors outside the cabin with engine grade RTV (not bathroom silicone!) - Any wire that can collect water is game to bring oxidation down to connector pins then onto the narrow insulation circuit boards. There's a reason this is called "consumer grade" and not military specs
People who dealt with "oil in harness", here is the next installment: "water in harness" ✌️
You heard about wet or fogged up HL... think $5,000 Ea!
The radar module issue is not the melted plastic seams, it's the poor female side connector that delivers chaos.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 08-05-2022 at 09:04 PM.
Sorry, I could not shed any light on your problems but what you sent here is just beyond my imagination as to what sort of damage it's been done . It looks like a grated roquefort cheese
E63,
Thank you for following up on the solution and the actual cause. This is good courtesy.
Sometimes I get pissed when request are from "hit-n-run" new members and we spend a great deal of time assisting. We too want a technical closure to add that to our database.
This thread is how a forum should be .....we help each other.
I hope you all will forgive a bump, but this is the most recent thread similar to a problem I'm having (S212 2011 with Adaptive High Beam/cornering/etc.).
My passenger-side main beam went out yesterday. Bulb looks ok; sometimes, beam will come on, but only for 10-15 sec. There is no low or high either in the auto position or manual headlights on position. I've noted through a search that often this is the headlight controller under the headlight assembly, but it could also possibly be the physical shutter for the bixenon. So, two questions:
-is it worth replacing the controller first?
-is there a way (without removing the wheel liner or the light assembly) to examine if the shutter is working properly?
I believe that @konigstiger linked someone who dremeled out the shutter, but I can't find that now. I don't have a way to reprogram the module, either, but I assume that will need to be done afterwards, too.
I'm pretty sour on Hella assemblies. This seems odd, and my Saab 9-3 has also had different, but similarly dumb issues with the beams. I just went with EVO 2.0 on those, but would prefer to maintain the automatic functions with these lights. Cheers!
The shutter would not cause the bulb to turn off, it just wouldn't go up for high beams sounds like the light controller to me, someone smarter will chime in soon. This in meant to be helpful, sometimes you would get more and better responses if you start a new thread.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 09-29-2022 at 08:07 PM.
Thanks @pierrejoliat . I'm never sure if it's better to revive a thread or start new since there's a lot of clutter on here. Thx for the input. I have a controller, so we'll see. On the Saab, I had to take apart the entire Hella assembly, so I'm not looking forward to that (if it were the shutter). Cheers!
04-17-2022, 10:10 PM
. You are to write off the red zone U907 yah. Unless you have such option.
