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02. Transmission oil temperature
03. Differential oil temperature
04. Possibly engine oil temperature.
Basically the Banks Gauge can collect and log OBD2 data from my car and it has its own Banks-CAN-BUS to collect data from Banks own sensors, hence Item 2 is an interface module,
the same as item 6 - Thermocouple based temperature data reader to allow available sensors to merge its data to the Banks gauge.
I already have the Logger version of the Gauge ( Data Monster) and the extra non logging secondary gauge I ordered (item 1) so that I can have 7 x 2 data points at any given time.
I chosen thermocouple based temperature sensor ( oil pan skin temperature ) instead of big sized common oil bath temperature sensor, for ease of installation.
I will have to keep in mind the slower temperature rise and that what I am reading probably 5-10C cooler than actual ....because metal skin temperature is what the thermocouple read
and not the true oil temperature. Wind cooling is another factor reducing metal skin temperature and the oil will be cooled slower inside the oil pan/metal skin.
Here are the DIFF and Tranny oil temperature sensors location : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...gnet-type.html
The hottest DIFF skin temperature on a 10 hours run is below :
Option 1
I can read engine oil temperature but at best metal skin temperature of the oil pressure sensor.
Or I can custom made oil dip stick to similar length like the current original one , its end is the thermocouple sensor wire.
Longtime ago VDO sell such oil temperature sensor , dipstick version. However, those days my engine does not have PCV system, it was dumped to atmosphere.
Option 2
Read my Bank 2 downstream oxygen sensor #2 skin temperature. It is odd that my OBD2 only provides 3 CAT temperature data.
Bank 1 sensor #1-upstream and #2-downstream and Bank 2 sensor #1-upstream but not the #2 downstream.
Option 3
Read temperature of brake calipers metal skin of the front wheel.
My friend gave me a temperature stickers for brake caliper, something like this : Never use it yet though. https://www.exquisusa.com/blog/2017/...e%20hot%20side.
We all know that in general, DOT 4 maximum allowed temperature if new and dry and wet is : 230C and poor 155C wet. Wet is what we use anyway. https://blog.amsoil.com/dot-3-and-do...he-difference/
Item 4 - I intend to read coolant pressure of engine and turbo aftercooler, which are totally different circuits.
Fitting : engine coolant pressure....mine has 1 hose MB plug off on purpose. So no need difficult modification . The Aftercooler cooling circuit is the one with spare plug OFF hose. Turbo coolantengine coolant pressure is more difficult to read, custom tee fitting is a must. Actually I would love to install low coolant level for turboaftercooler coolant recovery bottle but I have not
yet found a suitable sensor and reader unit for such application. MB original engine coolant reservoir level sensor is a good one, solid state (probably conductivity if not capacitive sensor )
non float type but I do not know how to source similar one with threaded type design. MB one is permanently molded to the reservoir bottle plastic base.
Item 5 - I intend to read vacuum negative pressure the vacuum pump is generating. This pump will wear out someday.
At the brake booster cylinder, there is already an electrical connector which I believe is a vacuum pressure sensor. I have not look into the WIS for details yet,
but if that is really reading vacuum pressure and is only used to produce DTC, having another sensor which can be logged to detect weakening vacuum pressure is better.
I do preventive maintenance as best as I can, I avoid corrective one which means something has already failed.
The vacuum pump most critical function is for the brake, so it is very important. Turbo boost control from from vacuum pump too.
I'm usually thinking of my boosted Duramax, not my non-boosted Mercedes. I guess I shouldn't have bought the E350. I always enjoy hearing Banks talk and explain things. Thanks for bringing this to us
For this test, the Air Mouse ( Weather station ) is still inside car and sometime I move it outside the left window, on top of the pano roof left edge.
Reading Transmission Oil Pan Skin temperature as TRSN-T ( Tranny Oil ) and Rear Differential Skin temperature as DIFF-T
TMP-1C means Thermocouple Module 1, Sensor C (3rd) which I use my spare thermocouple sensor wire to read HVAC air outlet for this test.
TMP-1D means Thermocouple Module 1, Sensor D (4th) , thermocouple wire at the floor to read HVAC return/suction air for this test.
====
ECT is Engine Coolant Temp, IAT is Air Intake Temp which is aftercooler output air, this is the real engine breathing air temperature.
AAT Ambient Air Temperature which Banks Gauge claimed it can/will take over using the Air Mouse (Weather Station ) data and not use the MB one at the left bumper.
It is true, I cool down and blow my warm breath to the Air Mouse and the temperature changes slowly but humidity change is instant
MAT is Manifold Air Temp, which is the same as AIT.
These are from MB's OBD2 data output
The Data Logging Plan.
Sample below is at 5HZ or 5 data points per second.
Data no 20 and 25, the Banks Gauge prepared PID/Names is not available for my needs , so I need to improvise.
Potential location to install the Banks Modules will be where my brake booster is at.
It seems the wire from the Gauge to the Module is stingy sized, I wish it is longer by 1.5 feet. Worse come to worse I will solder extension wire set to it.
The bunched up 4 of thermocouple sensors on top of engine are from experimental days with HVAC. It is not in use at the moment, unless I want to troubleshoot HVAC refrigerant lines temperature/s.
Planned location of the install
Road Test, too bad I use only 1Hz logging, I should have used 5 Hz to capture Stand till to 1st gear to 2nd gear RPM change which is not well captured at 1 Hz.
The Air Mouse/Weather Station was inside the car ( also all the modules), so I need to open the window up to allow it to sense real humidity value the engine is having and not the nice dry air of the car interior
is having with HVAC support. The sun seems to warmed up the Air Mouse albeit inside the car but sun ray sprayed from the front windshield....which is good, other wise the Ambient Air Temp ( outside air ) would read
cooler than the 30C ish as shown and will miscalculate my engine's power loss from the high temperature and higher humidity.
43 seconds opening the left window 100% and the pano 50% and turning off the HVAC has settled the Relative Humidity to the actual outside air....or at least close to it.
I can only test up to near 3rd gear WOT, but not full WOT at 3rd gear..... The Banks data point is off by approx 0.3 - 0.5 seconds to the actual video scene. Should have used 5Hz data point. In this video I am still using 1 Hz.
Tranny and DIFF oil/skin temperature. 5Hz , total logging 26.6 minutes
At night, 8:30 PM I went back from my friend's place to my home.
Slow, crowded road, rain at the middle of the journey.
So the ambient Relative Humidity at 8:30PM when I started the engine was near 70%. Temperature was 30.1.
Since the Air Mouse is reading car interior air, see how it changes.
Air density % is the key to engine power.... me in the tropics are the loosers
For sure aside from knowing actual oil pressure, hopefully I will also be able to see the switching of the oil pump from low to high. I believe the Xentry can activate it too this Y130.
In the name of less parasitic power loss, MB uses the double-stage oil pump on my engine and surely M276 non turbo too.
Function sequence for oil pressure
The engine oil pressure is regulated via the engine oil pump valve (Y130) in order to ensure an adequate oil supply and to lower the oil pressure if necessary (a saving on fuel).
Compact vane-type oil pump with demand-oriented flow control and two compression stages
This 2 stage oil pressure thingy I believe is what makes the VVT/Camshaft adjuster wear and tear higher and its admitted by VVT makers as "challenge" to put it politely.
You can read here some of their print of 2014 : https://www.schaeffler.us/remotemedi...rt_phasing.pdf
This is the trend of the oil pressure getting lower and lower over the years in the name of fuel savings. I think our engine is still at 2008 oil pressure trend, will see.
Imagine, our VVT operation is purely oil pressure based and yet MB at certain RPM provides lower oil pressure on purpose.
Good thing you mentioned oil pressure profiling Cali, thank you thank you.....
Why I said Thank You ?
I just realized I need to replaced these 2 o-rings for the 10th year if-I-keep-the-car plan.
Many engines are lost from failures of o-rings if being used on oil pump suction region.
In the old days we use copper washer if for oil suction snorkle and that is almost lifetime if in oil.
========================
The managed thermostat.
Hopefully the coolant pressure spike at non agressive driving, say nice highway constant cruising....can be a tool to see how MB uses their heater on the thermostat.
I need to buy the new hose first as back up.
This one for the ENGINE coolant recovery bottle. Just in case something goes wrong with me trying to insert a Tee
Now with MB Indonesia not wanting to stock parts much, I may ended up to wait 1+ months...no no no, too long.
Damn, I already thrown away the corroded one last year, could have used it for experiment. On March 2020 I replaced it. MB Indonesia screwed up, poor water and low % of coolant mix since the car assembled locally in 2014..
The green cable tie on my hoses, those are reminders that they are new as per 2020.
That way those without green cable tie is 8 years old today.
Hhhmm..come to think about the Y130 oil control valve, doing Low and High pressure switching.
I do not know if this valve is a normally HIGH or normally LOW oil pressure activation when it has no power or defective ?
I hope no one is dumb enough to make a NORMALLY LOW version if power is loss or unit defective.
Without oil pressure sensor how would even the engine computer knows if this oil pressure control valve went bad ?
The ECM can not detect solenoid movement. as long as no short circuit or open circuit, a stuck Y130 solenoid can not be detected.
I was wondering the same thing too... how does the ECU knows the oil pressure regulation is not out of control?? What's the feedback loop?
regulation profiles
We see that all they've acomplished is to reduce the oil pump output pressure, not make it better! The oil still gets pumped by a crankshaft driven chain and gets dumped out through a valve PWM or dumbo.
This valve is like an additional built-in leak, like the missing check valves or the oversized tensioner seals
By looking at the profile, we can see how the pressure is theoretically "regulated flat" regardless of RPM... so flat is a bit strange.
Imagine running this amazing "low oil pressure" with the "0W16" ultra thin oil with the new extended 1Yr service mileage.
I read somewhere they also have ways to shut off the oil spraying over the cylinders walls (rings) at low engine RPM.
We don't know how the live pressure is measured by ECU ?? Perhaps it's not precisely regulated, only open or closed dumper valve.
It's nice to think the ECU is involved with making the pump smarter. Here I don't think this means more reliable.
> Deactiving killer valve control:
THIS WHOLE OIL PRESSURE REDUCTION MAY BE A NICE TO DEACTIVE feature or disconnect to trick it with a side load ... yes?
The oil pump valve is internal but the ECU is not... so we can easily pick at the harness to connect a dummy load to replace the valve solenoid... yes?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 07-27-2022 at 02:08 AM.
Yes probably the oil is kinda bypass back to the oil sump when in low pressure mode, but since the oil is not pumping high pressure and not long distances thru oil galleries to X , Y & Z location,
the oil pump work less and engine burn less fuel.... so the theory said.
Cali Wrote
By looking at the profile, we can see how the pressure is theoretically "regulated flat" regardless of RPM... so flat is a bit strange.
I think the graph represent the minimum oil pressure target the engine designer wanted and not yet including the fluctuation of increased engine RPM.
This shows how Chrysler ( MB ex Wife ) dual stage oil pump pressure profile works if oil pressure sensor is available.
MB stated that engine like ours (without oil pressure sensor I assume), the oil pressure is a predicted algo only, no true sensing. I read it in the WIS.
So the oil quality used MUST be as good as what MB demands, because the algo is based on a known good oil.
Still, warning of low oil pressure from potential hose/0-ring/pipe damage is where oil pressure sensor is still needed and a must have.
Back to VVT fun....
This study is from the point of view of engineer for his master degree looking into how to make VVT more reliable for heavy duty use and Scania helped him.
Unlike VVT manufacturer trying to sell VVT system, this document showed us the problems of VVT. The VVT in discussion is similar to what our M276/M278/M157 uses. https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/ge...FULLTEXT01.pdf
Cali wrote :
I was wondering the same thing too... how does the ECU knows the oil pressure regulation is not out of control?? What's the feedback loop? They would reply : Believe us, the oil temperature-pressure algo is good albeit the only input is coolant temperature, because we are Germans
Cali...... Cali.... you always make my finger itchy.
Cali wrote : > Deactiving killer valve control:
THIS WHOLE OIL PRESSURE REDUCTION MAY BE A NICE TO DEACTIVE feature or disconnect to trick it with a side load ... yes?
The oil pump valve is internal but the ECU is not... so we can easily pick at the harness to connect a dummy load to replace the valve solenoid... yes?
Simple Hirschmaan 2 pin connector...yipee !!!! Sorry, connector brand is unknown for now but it does looks like the common Hirscmann with protection cable elbow-conduit.
I mistaken Oil Level Switch with the 2 stage oil pressure solenoid Y130
Yes, I will try to read the electrical load of the Y130 and make a dummy one. When the oil press sensor ready, we will study Y130 and the oil pump if Y130 by-passed or foooled. ABOVE IS OIL LEVEL SWITCH S43, NOT Y130
UPDATE 28 July 2022
This is where Y130 is located and I need to remove my aftercooler to access it.
I look forward to not saving any crankshaft energy to spin my oil pump at full pressure. At this stage, many thanks to you, we're about to make our engines cooler and last longer with unlimited oil circulation.
Imagine when you redline your turbos then come to a stop after leaving the Hwy, the low pressure kicks in and everything bakes for a while. Turbo plastic cooling lines !
> Transition back to unlimited oil pressure:
-- The one issue I can forsee is the ECU has learned the current VVT actuation map based on the low design pressure. This will need to be reset relearned if that's possible with Xentry.
-- When the unlimited pressure is used to actuate the VVT, the ECU software may have a hard time to manage the higher pressure to VVT at unexpected low rpm.
-- The VVT can definitely handle the higher RPM pressure but may dislike higher pressure at low rpm, right?
I still need to stomach the 80 page VVT PDF doc you shared in above post. All these presentations are great to understand things in depth - Arigato
I have updated post #15 to show the correct location of Y130 2 stage oil pressure solenoid. Damn, cuckoo of me.... to show S43 oil level switch instead.
Cali,
Before I reply to you VERY GOOD question on if Y130 bypassed and oil pressure always high, does the ECM need to re-leatn VVT oil pressure profile ?
I want to bring forward something more important first. I just realized it today after my screw up of S43 oil level switch mistaken as Y130.
Dont ever get engine oil level LOW on engine with oil pan like mine. I hate this design. Why waste so much oil capacity at a location my oil pump can not suck ?
This kind of oil pan is bad for uphill climb, regardless the oil pump has the plastic baffle to catch return oil from crankshaft & others, this design sucks !!!
Supposedly the item 60 baffle looks like this :
==============================
Cali ask :
> Transition back to unlimited oil pressure:
-- The one issue I can forsee is the ECU has learned the current VVT actuation map based on the low design pressure. This will need to be reset relearned if that's possible with Xentry.
-- When the unlimited pressure is used to actuate the VVT, the ECU software may have a hard time to manage the higher pressure to VVT at unexpected low rpm.
-- The VVT can definitely handle the higher RPM pressure but may dislike higher pressure at low rpm, right?
I don't see a problem as I believe the system is send command-demand to get result.
Send PWM command-demand to the round camshaft magnetic actuator to push the oil control valve adjustment rod.
The result is change on the timing advance or retard and read by camshaft position sensor.
The VVT DTC is always about a demand of X degree is not achieved, that is all.
The vacuum based turbo boost controller solenoid is the same working method.
Send PWM signal till commanded boost achieved, that's it.
The round camshaft magnetic actuator is a 2 wire device, it has no position information for its own solenoid/rod total movement, the same as the vacuum based turbo boost controller solenoid.
Also the work load is variable based on oil vicosity, temperature and so on, so best method is : is send command-demand to get result , if not achieveable ...produce DTC
Simple example, I can say with 99% certainty that once passing 3,000 RPM and to 6,200 RPM, I think I will see easy 3.5 bar to 5 BAR oil pressure swing.
So this alone is so variable pressure swing already.
ok that makes sense.
The ECU may work the VVT solenoid for "best efforts" to produce timing results.
ECU measures the feedback through the cam position sensors.
We'll see how fast the ECU finds out about unregulated pump pressure. Hopefully it can adapt or relearn to work VVT's.
The low oil output and missing check valve pretty much guarantee low lubrication and high heat in the plastic pipes.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 07-28-2022 at 12:48 PM.
Machining the aftercooler coolant pressure sensor adapter was slow.
Machine shop did no deliver proper NPT threading.
I can't use the adapter.
So I ended up buying a 1/8" 27 NPT tap for him to use
1st try. Too few threads.
2nd try, not bad.
Item 1 is Vacuum Sensor for brake booster & turbo boost controller. 50 psi ABSOLUTE
Item 2 is aftercooler coolant pressure. 50 psi GAUGE.
========================
The adapter for engine coolant pressure is easy to buy. Locally available for 18mm hose. I got 20mm, 22mm and 24mm for just in case.
I got a good hose clamp with outward lip, this kind of hose clamp won't cut the hose.
New one arrived, so I can cut the existing one ( new as of 2019) and have a new spare, just in case.
The hose has Kevlar re-inforcerment, not bad.
Been pressure tested to 15psi for 6 hours and 12 hours. So far so good.
Will do final pressure test to 1.35 BAR ( pressure cap is 1.4 BAR rated ) a day before I start the engine.
WORK IN PROGRESS......... not 100% done yet, aftercooler not yet installed. I need the real-estate to do other things up front.
Aftercooler coolant pressure sensor
=========================
WORK IN PROGRESS . Engine Oil Pressure. 100 psi GAUGE.
The adapter ( 2 units ) just arrived from China on Saturday 20th and dumb-azz manufacturer, the NPT thread not so good too !!!! The final tapering not done.
So I did it myself, since I already have the 1/8" 27 NPT tap. Since I never done tap-ping, one I over done it hahahaah
One is good.
BRAKE CALIPER TEMPERATURE SENSOR - Right front only for now
Testing. Normal person is 36.9C , no fever. Testing K thermocouple is easy, touch it with your finger and if it finally can read 35-36C, its good to go.
Double layer heat shrink tubing used.
Inner 1st layer is heated to shrink. The 2nd outer layer on purpose is not heat shrank, this is good like mini "air-suspension".
===========================
Bank 1 ( Right side ) turbo coolant pipe ( return or hottest one ), skin temperature. Basically this is engine's coolant temperature ( via skin ) at potential hottest zone.
The stainless steel outer jacket of the thermocouple ( from China ) is very abrasive towards painted surface.
So I double coated it with shrink wrap.
========================
BANKS Air Mouse ( Weather station )
Facelift model - maybe pre-facelift the same. I don't know.
Mask tape the headlights sides. The bumper sides are so curvy, upon bumper removal and re-installl, it will slide to the headlight outer lens and may scratch the headlight.
The black plastic rod is antenna from my wifi router ha ha ha ha.
3M VHB double tape for its fat end. I broke the SMA connector side of it, so I ony use the plastic antena body.
==========================================
Wiring from OBD2 port to Banks Twin Gauge
Banks interface cable from the Gauge to the Modules ( the one passing thru at brake pedal opening ) is shy of 15 more centimeters ...DAMN !!!
Otherwise I can route it a bit prettier.
2 Banks Module
Wires for Banks system, from suspension/wheel well to engine bay.
I reduce the size of the foam.............
.........and then I mix-match with 4mm HVAC foam insulation.
Above is before I add Air Mouse wire.
Below is the Air Mouse wire before I route it to front of radiator
Will update when all is running........... at least a week more.
07-11-2022, 07:16 AM
, because we are Germans 
ok that makes sense.
