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I have a tuned M278 engine Shooting brake (bigger turbos, 3"exhaust etc) Can you Mr @S-Prihadi or @CaliBenzDriver confirm that I can safely do this mod to my car also? All help to my tuned engine to run strong longer would be highly appreciated.
I have a tuned M278 engine Shooting brake (bigger turbos, 3"exhaust etc) Can you Mr @S-Prihadi or @CaliBenzDriver confirm that I can safely do this mod to my car also?
All help to my tuned engine to run strong longer would be highly appreciated.
With an advanced setup like yours, a set of BANKS Gauge will be a perfect addition.
> TIPS to run STRONG + RELIABLY Longer:
-1- Obviously this oil pump mod transforms the lubrication profile for internal moving parts. It allows to ECU to map optimal engine timings down to 800.Rpm in about 1500.Mi.
- This eliminates the accelerator lagy response around idle Rpm. Now engine response sharply launches from 900.Rpm due to appropriate timings.
-2- Clean your oil pan is busy work but a great idea
-3- Check your vacuum pump check valve integrity.
-4- Repair damages done by poor oiling:
2x limp chain tensioners
2x dirty upstream Lambda
4x leaky CPS "oil-in-arness"
(2x seized HPFP +Rollers)
(inspect cylinder bores for piston issues?)
(inspect VVT Phasers lock properly)
-5- Fix poor main GND Strap + secondary duplicate!
-6- Survey ALL chassis DTC faults codes to repair traffic jam issues over CAN-C +B.
- This impacts... everything and specially TCU latency with poor shifts.
- Poor CAN performance conditions are stealthy without any error!
-7- Focuss your attention to study the fuel delivery from low pressure pump to HPFP under acceleration!!
- Basic tank filter and flat roller may be needed above 70kMi.
-8- Last but not least, Surya's and I first brainchild: the Voltage YoYo under acceleration!!
- Check if your voltage under acceleration swings below 13.7V. If it deeps towards 12.3V simply unplug ALT for now.
- It is independently smart to regulate perfect voltage without drama.
-9- Rework marginal painted GND and poor Solderless connections.
- They are used to inject chaos and latencies in module interoperation.
> Then your chassis behavior will really be transformed to deliver reliable performance for you, the way it was intended before being factory de-tuned.
- Every factor that affects precise timings with jitter, decreases the performance.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-16-2023 at 03:45 PM.
Reason: jitter bugs 😅
Thank you a lot for kind and very detailed reply! I know some of that you did mention before and I need to keep an eye for some new things to me like you wrote in chapters 3, 5 and 9.
I have also TCU tune and after that car shifts really good and firm. TCU tune did help a lot also in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times according to Dragy.
That chapter 8, did you recon me to unplug ALT = alternator? if that voltage is swinging?
I do use OBD link MX+ when daily driving and HP tuner RTD for dataloging sometimes when go 1/4 mile and 60-130mph pulls. But I will need to really consider to buy and install some kind oil pressure gauge. I think that those tools that I use now can't provide oil pressure readings.
So maybe I will go for this mod if it can't harm my engine and there are no risk doing that, even without oil pressure gauge?
You have a very nice setup, over boosted... you know the risks for your conrods and pistons... If I were you I would keep a close eye on the oil pressure to prevent any fatal damage.
I don't recommend anyone to disconnect their pump solenoid. A few volunteer individuals, Surya and myself have engaged in an experimental procedure that has been very promising.
So far it appears beneficial but we know these M157/276/278 engines can get trashed by non-ferous debris from crank bearings and pistons.
-- The simplest way to spot electrical issue is by witnesses battery currents higher than 40Amps either positive or negative: Bad news!
-- Normal currents should be less than 25Amps because 100% power is supplied directly by alternator.
-- Main AGM is only used to crank starter unless you play with ECO to drain it.
To me oil pressure sensor is a must have, regardless car is tune or not.
So that was the first MOD I ever done to my engine and many more instrumentation add on, including turbo specific instrument called the Banks Air Mouse https://bankspower.com/products/sens...ash-supergauge
Which is actually small weather station.
I am in a hot country, so my turbocharger overall can not produce 100% designed power due to hot ambient and intake temperature I am at, it just simple physics.
So I like to know, how many percent loss I am getting at such hot ambient temperature.
Official horsepower figure by SAE is based on a cooler weather I can never have in my city. https://official.bankspower.com/density/ https://dynomitedyno.com/tech-corner...Hg%20(99%20KPa).
This unlucky I-am-in-a-hot-country scenario has been my problem for yachts too.
Marine engine get power de-rating at 40C or higher ambient engine room temperature, and for my country 45-50C is the norm while at cruise in day time.
So I always loose power a bit.
The problem on a yacht is, our propeller size and pitch is governed by the tranny ratio and engine power but at 25C standard normal temperature of the engine builder.
There is no gear 1-2-3-4-5 to choose, we use single ratio tranny.
So when I get European yachts, some of them cheat the top speed test by being light liquid load and using their cooler temperature.
When the yacht arrived in Jakarta-Indonesia, within 100 hours of use, engine will suffer mild overloading by the propeller size and pitch.
The yacht can NOT deliver its promised top speed and engine trouble will soon follows.
Thus I need to modify the propeller to make it "smaller" by load.
If US sportfishing yacht is OK, they got more power per ton and is Florida based temperature design, with hot Carribean hot weather matrix thrown in.
So US sportfishing yachts chosen propeller is good enough for my hot climate and all happy.
I don't MOD my car for more power, I mod them to last longer and I am a data junkie when it comes to engine parameters logging.
I even have engine bay or underhood thermocouple sensor to see how hot is my engine bay at slow snail traffic.
The oil solenoid is a way reduce oil pressure in the name of fuel savings, and not of longevity concern.
Without the oil pressure solenoid intervention, NEGATIVE intervention I would call it, our oil pump is like normal engine oil pump...which gives pressure nice and high enough and surely based on RPM
of the engine because the oil pump is driven by the engine.
The same for alternator. It has a good smart voltage regulator that can even manage 0.2 amps of charging on its own.
But MB install an INTERVENTION command via LIN bus single wire to tell alternator to NOT charge battery at times, because MB wants to keep battery approx 80% charge only , in the name of
C02 savings. So when you doing a brake pedal push, then ECM take it as an opportunity to charge battery at free power. At times ECM is crazy enough to NOT charge battery when we kicked down to WOT...LOL.
The actual algo is complex, but it is stupid-humble enough that when you blast your HVAC at full power, the ECM no more do intervention and let alternator own voltage regulator to do it PROPER charging.
I think I need to correct the word CHARGING, best to use SUPPLYING DC power for car use.
Anytime you do not see +/plus sign on the alternator amperage ( Instrument cluster has this menu ), battery is actually not being charged, but car DC needs are fulfilled by the alternator.
====
OIL SOLENOID
It all comes down to your own decision.....
Last edited by S-Prihadi; 12-17-2023 at 01:35 AM.
Reason: typo & ADD INFO
Thanks for the Master Tasos heads up.
Can't wait to see his technical point of view, since he has access to the actual oil pump for a better look-see.
I hope he shows/share with us, how technicaly it is done: the the oil spray nozzle oil path being blocked on purpose by the oil solenoid .
Cali,
Have a go at my log file. This is me back from Surabaya city into Jakarta, where it was peak hour 5PM ish and then crazy traffic jam within Jakarta, till I got home.
So this is a highway driving and then snail pace. Worth 74,440 data points or 248.16 minutes, at 5HZ.
Maybe you can find what you need for R & D as the numerical value is sometimes easier to see in details at this kind of huge data of 5Hz.
I would suggest you first install an oil pressure gauge like I did with the Banks Gauge Data Monster + the extra 4 channels module + the oil pressure sensor to see best result and know
what actual engine oil pressure is your engine delivering at the moment. Approx US$800ish will do + DIY wiring yourself. You then have 3 empty channels at the 4 channels module which you can add other sensors for X, Y, Z purpose.
Here you will from the Gauge ( Data Monster ) get OBD2 logging but most likely the AFR/Lambda value is wrong like mine, hence I do not use it, but you get all other important data.
Here is the last 1 hour before engine kill..... from out of town highway and entering Jakarta city internal highway where the traffic jam is SUCK-BIG time and then I sent my friend home and then
I head home. STOP.
Happy investigation..........
Quick Question was the Oil pressure 0x0077 the actual PID logged? how have you set up the Banks monitor for that ? can you PM the details ? Low , high plus units etc
The Banks Data Monster Gauges has 2 types on their line up. One is with memory card and one is without. I got both because I want to see 16 PIDS at one go.
You will need the OBD2 version one for our MB cars: https://bankspower.com/collections/i...igital-monitor
Slowly choose OBD2 version and then get its user manual.
Now, this Banks Gauge has 2 data bus, one is standard OBD2 and one is Bank's own data-bus.
Banks custom Data-BUS is for modules item #2, #6 and #7.
I now got 2 of item #6 the 4 channel thermocouple module and will be ordering 1 more to track my HVAC system temperatures.
So the oil pressure PID is by Banks custom Data-BUS and using stand alone module #2, stand alone oil pressure sensor #3 and DIY metric to imperial thread adapter.
Banks then combine in their CSV output log file at slowest speed 5 data points per second per PID or fastest 20 data points per second per PID , the OBD2 PIDS and Banks own
custom PIDS. That CSV file is what you saw.
If you are decent with electric works, know your car well enough, this should be a DIY approach to save $$ on the installation.
I am familiar with Gale Banks and his company. I used his products on my 2000 ford Excursion 7.3 turbo diesel, tuning, intercooler transmission control air intake. Did the job nicely.
I used other logging software (Evoscan ) when I had my Mitsubisho Evo 8 MR. Added a data Acquisition box from DATAQ DI-145( A to D ) that was programmable for 6 channels.including stop start trigger function built in so it would start recording data when the OBD2 logging software started. The stream was then combined in a data file which was saved on the fly .Since it was hard wired to a computer, i could literally log many channels for as long as i wanted. Not a great fan of logging to a usb or data chip as they can fill quickly depending on how fast the log speed is and how many data channels you are logging.
Yep understood how your data flow is combined and you have output the data to excel I see. That is also what I used to do..makes graphing easier.
Ah my bad.... I see now, you are using the oil pressure sender from Banks. So i assume the oil PID is on the 0x0077 request ..
Well, MB's other than common OBD2 data channel is safe guarded by Front SAM N93 gateway is not the easiest one to crack I think.
I would love to see an OBD2 version gauge able to get the MB tranny oil temperature data, but no one is doing it.
However, engine oil pressure is not something MB would put in most of its engine of the last 15 years I am sure.
I would love that too. Perhaps something like AlfaOBD to look into the SAMs and allow enabling of request for things we want..
Yes IMHO MB did not implement an Oil PID in the code even in the Front SAM protected except maybe one of the AMG's noted in the kevm14 thread. If it isnt implemented you cant request the data from the ECU , it just ignores the request or flags it as unavailable. Understandable since there isnt an actual oil pressure sensor or sender....LOL
Slightly OT but i have a 2017 3500 DRW RAM truck that is pre SAM security modules. 6.7 HO cummins. Doesnt have SAM's .Has a gauge on the dash for oil pressure and in a digital scrolling panel in center of dash. Guess what ? No you cant request the signal to be sent to OBD2 port. Wait .....the two factory readings DONT even match at cold start up gauge reads center of teh range ~ 50 psi. The scrolling digital panel will read 32 psi at cold start idle...LOL Heaven know which is right, wrong or what they are actualling sending to the dash and digital gauges
My point is we should not blindly trust any manufacturer to have correct code caluclations for items like this. Coming from a high level lab and pharma background and with 55 years of experience working on cars...verify before you trust.............................YMMV
-- Yes he knew about all the parts: oil pump, solenoid, squirters, VVT and scoring
-- No he didn't link pro and cons of performance vs. damages.
> Tasos quick video does not acknowledge...:
- What low pressure does to VVT positioning!
- What no squirting does to scored cylinders!
- What random oiling does to burn oil!
What Master Tasos' missing on that particular topic is connecting available nuggets of data into knowledge.
That's how we helped untangle this spaghetti with outmost attention to uncommon details.
I think he was too cautious, and failed comparing a stressed oil pump to an stressed engine.
It is a lot cheaper to replace the oil pump every 100K miles, than rebuilding the engine at the same mileage. And that is accepting his guess the oil pump could fail earlier.
I think he was too cautious, and failed comparing a stressed oil pump to an stressed engine.
It is a lot cheaper to replace the oil pump every 100K miles, than rebuilding the engine at the same mileage. And that is accepting his guess the oil pump could fail earlier.
the one thing everyone does when opening the pump is to check for any scaring by foreign materials, right?
If we prevent piston shavings and glitter from aluminum heads journals then we are ahead of the curve.
Single vs. dual rate:
I think there's hardly a difference between the two rates. Half of the outer wall expending allows the spinning fins(vaines) to reach out further to scope more volume.
The shaft rotational center does not move position which is good thing do keep operating within same wear marks.
Operating at 2000.Rpm with cooler oil is an easy life for this pump. The 60psi relief is for our WOT friends
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-28-2023 at 07:09 PM.
I agree with Juan, Master Tasos is being very careful, knowing he is a workshop and dealing with Benz a lot.
Again he is not against anyone defeating the oil pump solenoid.
He is like Swiss, neutral ground
That M157 oil pump description is actually a variable volume, hence also variable pressure.
I seen Pierburg animation for such oil pump.
So Master Tasos explained on the spring/pressure based valve which control the oil spray nozzle, like above 25 PSI is the spring rating....something like that.
12-15-2023, 03:10 PM
