ph2426

Hi everyone. I am hoping that someone can shed some light before a trip to the dealer. I have a 2015 E63S wagon and a few weeks ago every now and again it had a little trouble cranking. After a while a check engine light came on and then I also had the driver asistance tell me it wasnt working. The battery was nearly new but i had it changed and I also had the aux battery checked at batteries plus (they said their tests showed it was ok). The cranking is obviously now much better but at random times I get yellow warnings on the dash for driver assistance not working, park assist etc. and there is a check engine light on as well.

I have cleared all codes with a Mercedes OBD reader but I would like to list the ones that have come back. Perhaps you much more knowledgeable individuals will have some ideas....

The check engine light is due to code P261029- the engine off time has an implausible value. There is an invalid signal.

The other warning codes are as follows:
U016887- communication with the electronic ignition lock has a malfunction.
B219500- The power supply of Circuit 30 is <8.5 v.
B210C16- the power supply is outside the valid range. The limit value for electrical voltage has not been attained.
B210D16- The power supply is too low. The limit value for electrical voltage has not been attained.
A10C16- the power supply is outside the valid range. The limit value for electrical voltage has not been attained.

If anyone can shed some light I would greatly appreciate it. I have not had issues until very recently. Thank you.

CaliBenzDriver

You replaced the main battery twice (AUX is tested good). Car has low voltage faults and Ignition switch issue.

Someone is going to have to work on this car... you or specialist?

I would concentrate on the ignition switch being defective. If you're lucky it is causing all the other issues by commanding SAM to toggle power on-off-on-off.... In that case a straight forward repair.
Gently tap around ignition key area to test trigger fault

ph2426

Forgive my ignorance but do you mean the start/ stop button? You mention taping around the ignition key area. Also could that cause the check engine light as well? Is there anyway I could have missed something when changing the battery and that is why it shows all these faults?

CaliBenzDriver

I think you're okay. Replacing the battery and clearing the codes qualifies as "battery reboot": a positive thing!

The CEL is caused by a hard-fault the ECU is having trouble with (like low voltage in 30g) - These faults are not real good to ignore.

cetialpha5

I was just going to suggest failing alternator/voltage regulator. Did you get that tested also?

ph2426

no I did not have this tested. Where is the easiest place to have this tested?

ChrisHimself

brother it could be your alternator, usually the battery will do this but if it does it while driving its the alternator. You can wear your alternator down trying to charge a failing battery for too long of a service life. The OEM's for those 5.5L biturbos are Valeo and Valeo parts for me at a professional level have been subpar but good enough, like their filters/wipers/radiators/water pump, but yeah they're no Bosch/Mahle. It's COMPLETELY plausible that the alternator is letting you down.

VALEO 439762 if you want to replace the alternator. It's expensive as hell ($500) because there aren't a ton of them made, the casting is fairly intricate on them, and uh it's physically large. Thats IF you DIY, someone is going to charge you more than this for the alternator at a shop due to local parts supply being more expensive than online warehousing.

but it's 90% the voltage regulator on the back, it has these spring loaded contacts that wear down/corrode over the years, I doubt the bearings or windings are betraying you right now. $40.

ph2426

thank you! Is there a way to test the voltage regulator? If there is a high chance it’s the voltage regulator would it be worth spending the $40 or would a trip to the dealer be best?

ChrisHimself

Yeah its just $40. If the dealer finds out its an alternator you could be out $1500+ they have a nasty habit of creating urgency to get you to close on a deal along with what Im going to assume is a starter which they also like $1500 for (its 1hr actual time, 2.2hr rate for me)

Im willing to concede I could be wrong but I think we might be onto something with this plan of action and the risk is inexpensive enough for the reward to be worth it.

Can you check Yourmechanic and see what the rate is for an alternator replacement, labor only? If youre not handy you can just pop the voltage regulator out once its out and have your technician pop it back in. I use YM for market research. Rates are fair.

ph2426

can the voltage regulator be changed without removing the alternator?

ph2426

I looked on your mechanic and it shows labor at $1300 for changing the alternator. Does that sound about right? It seemed quite high.

cetialpha5

You should probably grab a copy of EPC/WIS on eBay. Also comes with a cost estimator and it's under $10. It's now discontinued by Mercedes but should still work for cars up to 2018/2020. Normally for the voltage regulator, it's part of the alternator and I don't know about how hard it is to access the alternator. If there's no room, then you have to remove the alternator in order to get at the regulator. So if you have to remove the alternator in order to get at it, you mind as well replace the alternator. Getting a copy of the WIS will tell you the procedure to remove the alternator, probably tells you how to replace the regulator too. Rockauto sells the alternator for a tad under $500 and there's a 5% discount code you can find on retailmenot.com. It's interesting that it just comes with a one year warranty and even some of the remans only come with 1 year although there's one from BBB industries that come with a 3 year warranty. Never really heard of them and they just get average reviews so you might be better off with a new one. Also OP doesn't mention the mileage but like anything, things will wear out. In addition to the regulator, there's also the bearings inside the alternator so a new/rebuilt one will have new bearings so just replacing the regulator could get you by for a few years til the bearings go at some point and then you have to replace it again.

Arrie

I have not replaced voltage regulator ir the whole alternator but looking at the picture of the regulator it should be easier to rrplace than the whole alternator.

FCPeuro sells regulator for $42. The whole alternator is $665. Both made by Valeo.

Both parts have lifetime warranty as long as you own the car.

CaliBenzDriver

SCANNER :
You don't need to remove anything... simply plug in your scanner and read the voltage, available from many modules starting with ECU and SAMS...


NO SCANNER:
Also the car IC can be set to display voltage. That's actually the best way to read VOLTAGE and CURRENT to assess condition while driving.


BUSY WORK... $$$$:
FYI: A lot of these battery-killing Benz have poor voltage control with good alternator regulator.
-- See where you stand before wrenching to prevent replacing a good OEM alternator for zero improvement.

Don't use the PARTS CANON if you don't want to be victim of it ✌️

ChrisHimself

No, the voltage regulator is on the back of the alternator held on with a couple fasteners. If the labor cost is going to be that high, you might just consider getting the new alternator if we have to spend that much. The second one will fail at the voltage regulator again though so it's kind of a weird position to be in. Up to you.

Some of the 5.5L biturbos make you remove the steering, the job sucks, I don't doubt that it's $1300 although I would certainly try for a better deal locally. The alternator should be down below if my memory is correct. It's not a normal alternator mounted on the side that swings out. Radiator, fan, hoses, bottom cross member, splash pans come out, AC line has to be disconnected from radiator. Coolant system has to be refilled and bled, you can keep the coolant poor if you wanna save $120. I'm sorry I can't give specific information on the job I sorta have been doing auto repairs by feel since all the AllData/Mitchell stuff has proven to be a waste of time and money for me even though I have it. It's not AMG or Mercedes specific, this is just how cars are built now, it's awful packaging. Even the M273 alternator/fan/radiator SUCKS to remove. The starters have required exhaust system removal for a long while now.

If the job takes 4 hours of wrenching time I bill around 6.5-8 so $150x8 in the worst case scenario is $1200 in labor.

And because I'm a nag, if/when you determine this service is for you, replace the belt and idler pulleys while you're in there. They all make noise all the time after 2 years even though theyre working perfectly, it's just quieter to have a fresh set. I change my pulleys every couple years even if they last 10.

ChrisHimself

BBB/TYC/Spectra etc take the OEM cases, and rebuild them instead of Bosch/Valeo. Sometimes they're absolutely good to go. On the new stuff sometimes TYC straight up just sells a new reboxed Bosch unit, so it's hard to tell. If I was a consumer it's a tough sell to get someone to gamble going through a SECOND breakdown to save $150. For handy guys you can just save the money all along the way and learn a bit about the parts ecosystem while you're doing it.

I have good success with the Oreily's stuff, I have a business account with them that gets me out of a bind every now and then, the Autozone reman's are complete nightmares sometimes. I had a DOA alternator brought in, then the customer had to wait the weekend without his car so I could get the new Bosch unit for like $600 or something because the remans weren't available on Worldpac at the time.

cetialpha5

I was just going to say that Autozone has the reman Duralast alternator for $440 and there's a 20% off discount code so $352 plus a $60 core charge. At least it's easy to return the core. Has the lifetime warranty. They're very good with shipping, got one from them for my M272 and ordered in the afternoon and they shipped it at 9pm that night and I got it the next day, shipped out of a warehouse a few towns over from me. They didn't have any stores carry it in stock. I've heard nightmare stories about DOA alternators from the parts store so last car I had, I had them test the new one in store but you can't do that if they ship it to you. Luckily the alternator worked fine and it's been over 4 years now. Also changing out the alternator on the M272 wasn't that bad so worth a roll of the dice for reman.

On the other hand, it is an E63 where I'm sure the list price was over 100k and the wagons do hold their value so if the OP isn't looking to save their pennies, a new one is the way to go especially if it's that involved. Should probably last as many miles as he got out of the old one. There was a thread where someone changed out regulator on an older E63 but that was the previous model so not sure if there's any room to access the back of the alternator to change out the regulator on this particular one.

ph2426

Thank you all. I have the car booked into the dealer on Wednesday for diagnosis. If the alternator was an easy fix I would but it seems to be at least a $1500 job including labor. I would love to work out before hand what is the actual issue but I am not sure how to know definitively. Is there any other way to get a definitive answer without a dealer visit?

CaliBenzDriver

To check the alternator is abble to supply the car normally:
Put a load on the system by running A/C plus the headlights : ON and check voltage is between 13.7 to 14.9V

If you see voltage below 13V, then you know alternator has failed.

Positevly let the dealer come to its conclusion about what is causing your issues...

ph2426

I just started the car and turned on radio, ac, seat ventilation etc and the reading was 14.60 volts when running and 12.15 volts when turned off.

CaliBenzDriver

Congratulations, you jumped ahead and saved a perfectly good alternator.

The conclusion to that test is alternator handles loads normally. It is not causing your low voltage conditions.


The low voltage problem is caused by poor control by the engine ECU... Not the battery and Not the alternator.


A lot of people like to ignore the alternator output is remotely controlled. The alternator strictly complies with ECU requests.

This low voltage condition is a logical fault of the ECU control. I don't exactly know what condition is making the ECU crazy.
My No1 suspicion is the unreliable Ignition Switch module glitching the car power through F-SAM... far away from alternator!

Let the factory trained dealer perform its magic. Hopefully you'll get a long lasting fix, not just another alternator.

ph2426

thank you for adding what you may think it is. I will add what the dealer finds wednesday so hopefully it can help someone in the future. thank you all!

CaliBenzDriver

The best way to help yourself with dealer work is to define the conditions you want them to fix.
Provide service writer a short scenario that leads technician to quickly reproduce the problem you're experiencing.

They will not trust any of your wise inputs unless it is an applicable TSB published by the MB corp. It's harder to ignore known fixes identified internally.

Currently there is no published fix that I am aware of.

> QUICK ADVANCED WORKAROUND... :
Proceed if you are concerned with...
"No more battery/alternator/Xmas tree aggravations now! ( for free for all readers &#129304
The best workaround to get the alternator to work normally without any voltage games is to simply disconnect the external control from it. Then pop the maintenance menu to monitor your free 100% PERFECTLY CHARGED BATTERY .

Say thank you MBWORLD 👍
It was tested & conceived by a remote team of good people.

Let's hope your dealer delivers on your expectations.

🤞

cetialpha5

I wouldn't exactly call 10 seconds a definitive test. Better if you could get it on the display and drive around and see if it stays steady or not. On my other car, I knew it was bad when it couldn't hold 14v for very long. Auto parts stores also do free charging system testing where they use some midtronics device to check the battery/alternator but I'm not sure I'd let some minimum wage employee play with an AMG E63. They don't even know how to install a battery correctly. I watched one do a free install once and he did it backwards, you're supposed to disconnect the negative cable first and hook it up last but he didn't end up shorting it to the body so didn't blow anything up.

CaliBenzDriver

drive around and look up the battery sensor values lives. It will be fun if you get to understand the meaning of these measures.

If you see voltage below 12.3 V :
stop driving ASAP!
Find a safe place to park.
Your car needs a reboot now...
Stop the engine ignition (Exit car if convenient)
LOCK the car for it to enter low-power sleep mode...
10mn later resume traveling ✌️
Use headlights:ON to generate a fixed voltage

The car VIP modules on CAN-C got in a jam.
ECU picked up corrupted/missing data that it disliked.
Diagnosing this soft-crash with field tools was a tall challenge ✌️


MB introduced a bug in the BOSCH ECU:
The ECU controlling the alternator output on M276/8 has a potentially costly firmware issue.
Under common conditions the ECU erroneous control causes low voltage disfunctions, batteries and charging system failures.
The fix is a simple 5mn software contribution that I wish i could test...