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Messed oil filter installation, now engine is seized?
So i did my own oil change on Sunday and everything was straight forward except I learned later when putting the big rubber seal on I accidently put it all the way down touching the cap,
It should have been one groove up (picture big cap at bottom). I had run the car in garage for 5 min to check for leaks and nothing. So driving it today for first time going to work this
morning two miles from leaving the house the engine stops. No warnings of any kind. When trying to restart all dash lights light up. No oil messages. Oil mess all over. Try turning key and just get click sounds, engine not turning.
Could see rubber seal bulged out in one spot and oil right above on hood. Tow it to my local MB shop and they say engine has seized. 2011 E350 base 89K miles, Engine ran and was perfect.
My question is can the engine get waisted within only 2 miles of driving 45 mph max? That means the oil could not have been totally gone for only 1 mile. Mobil 1 synth oil 5-W30 should protect even as its draining out. Water temp never moved. Cool outside.
My next move is to check myself somehow to see if engine is locked. Does anyone know if you can try and turn crankshaft at front bolt or something with big torque wrench?
Pull the spark plugs and see if the engine turns. Put a borescope in the plug holes and look at the cylinder walls. Pull the valve covers and look for signs of oil starvation on all the rotating bits. Fill it back up with oil, try to crank the engine, and drain the oil. Look for sparkly bits and glitter with a flashlight on the oil. Once you're convinced your engine is wrecked, google junkyards for a used engine.
i mean anecdoctally the engine seized after it oil starved, kind of late to ask if it's possible. Yes I've seen this before, and yes from that exact situation. That seems a little early for me given what I've seen people do to cars as a science experiment
Drain the oil, it's gonna be a sheet metal factory in there.
and that is why specialists charge for what they do. Not only for doing the job but also for checking after their work. That is when the expertise shows up.
I do a lot of things: car, AC, laptops, appliances, etc. However, I know my limits, review forums (like this one), watch videos, and admittedly call the specialist once I am over my head.
I am curious on the seized M272, because my friend has this engine on his 2008 S-Class.
Surfer, when you said : the big rubber seal on I accidently put it all the way down touching the cap,
Is what you meant equal to the green note I wrote on below image ?
To others familiar with M272, I saw the guy in video only uses total of 3 o-rings, 2 of medium size and 1 of big size, while his kit contains extras : 1 extra medium-small and 1 more very-small o-ring.
Are the left over 2 left over o-rings not in use or will be used on other M272 variant ?
No he means the big o-ring at the cap end where it threads in. Down by the guys little finger on his left hand. I am changing my oil as we speak and I swear when I pulled the filter I found the o-ring in the same location as the OP but I may be wrong. I am the one that changed it last. I recognize that it should be in the grooves below the cap. The instructions in the filter box tell you where to put it.
I always end up to two leftover o-rings. Always worries me that I am missing something but have run 20k miles like that.
To others familiar with M272, I saw the guy in video only uses total of 3 o-rings, 2 of medium size and 1 of big size, while his kit contains extras : 1 extra medium-small and 1 more very-small o-ring.
Are the left over 2 left over o-rings not in use or will be used on other M272 variant ?
Thanks
The very small o-ring is used to replace the o-ring on the oil dipstick. I always have one extra medium-small o-ring left after doing an oil change.
and that is why specialists charge for what they do. Not only for doing the job but also for checking after their work. That is when the expertise shows up.
I do a lot of things: car, AC, laptops, appliances, etc. However, I know my limits, review forums (like this one), watch videos, and admittedly call the specialist once I am over my head.
In this case the oil filter housing seal never was in place right nor was the housing itself. Seal cannot come out if it is put in place correctly.
It seems the seal was pinched between the little "flare" on the plastic housing cover and the housing outside the threaded hole. The seal does not have support outside of it to support against pressure like this. O-ring seals need a "pocket" all around for them to work correctly.
sorry to hear it.
With modern engines not having oil pressure sensors, the oil level is the only warning you will get, so don't ignore it.
The oil with blown oring can drain in seconds and oil warning has few seconds delay before it lights the light.
So question here - was it just too long delay for the warning, or the driver not noticing. Such warnings usually come with chimney sound, but I have never experienced this particular one.
Sorry for your misfortune here, but it doesn’t sound good. Things like this do happen however, no matter how careful we are and many professional shops have failed this procedure as well with Mercedes and other brands. You read about this all the time on other forums so don’t take it too hard. Find a good used motor and try again.
In this case the oil filter housing seal never was in place right nor was the housing itself. Seal cannot come out if it is put in place correctly.
It seems the seal was pinched between the little "flare" on the plastic housing cover and the housing outside the threaded hole. The seal does not have support outside of it to support against pressure like this. O-ring seals need a "pocket" all around for them to work correctly.
So you are saying that by design an unlubricated seal can't be rolled out of the groove by the chamfer?
So you are saying that by design an unlubricated seal can't be rolled out of the groove by the chamfer?
When you place the seal in the groove in the plastic housing cover and then screw the cover on the housing, when the seal goes inside the housing diameter the seal already seals. You tighten the housing cover against the housing, not the seal so it does not matter how tight you make the cover for sealing purposes. Sealing comes from the correct O-ring seal diameter in the correctly dimensioned groove in the housing cover.
In OP's case the seal never went inside the housing diameter as it "bulged out". He tightened the housing cover against the seal between the "flare" on the cover and the housing, not the flare against the housing and this is why he first did not see any oil leak. Then probably after everything cooled down over night, the housing cover got loose, and seal was pushed out by the oil pressure.
sorry to hear it.
With modern engines not having oil pressure sensors, the oil level is the only warning you will get, so don't ignore it.
The oil with blown oring can drain in seconds and oil warning has few seconds delay before it lights the light.
So question here - was it just too long delay for the warning, or the driver not noticing. Such warnings usually come with chimney sound, but I have never experienced this particular one.
Unfortunately the beliefe that we dont need true oil pressure gages or actual no kidding low pressure alarms as consumers is the cause of this and its not just MB. Even Ram diesel 1 tons and there equivelant counterparts dont. Couple of guys have lost there engines due to this fact. Few have been able to shut down the engine because they had a monitor and installed true sensor (theres a spot for one on cummins oil filter housings) which had a light and alarm. The stock/normally controlled ECU for the engine never gave a warning/alarm and obviously the fake algorith for displayed oil pressure still showed 54psi I believe it was. These fake algorith displays are worthless for the most part, just there for warm comfy safespace feelings for ignorant (not necessarily stupid) drivers.
I had a 2017 Shelby GT350 for a few years. The early builds had spin on filters and the vibrations from the flat plane crank literally spun the filters off and immediate engine failure. Ford was kind enough to replace these $30,000 engines and also changed the filter to a canister type going forward. Even the professionals can get it wrong right from the start. I know this repair is on you, but **** happens.
Seems like I recall the first generation Cummins having a 50 cent dowel pin that would fail and take the engine with it.
Believe it.
Yep, there are still kits available where removing front cover and installing a tab and replacement bolt to retain dowel in place. But many just make a tab themselves to cover dowel. 5.9 12V still my fav of the Cummins.
No, Where the black gloved hand pinkie is, you can see it in your pic. It appears he also has it in the wrong position like I said. But cant tell for sure. Point is shouldnt be all the way down where his pinkie is resting.One groove up.
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Hyundai dealer botched second oil change on my $70K Genesis GV80 and leaked all over the pristine concrete garage floor in my brand new house. And took less than two minutes for the Space Shuttle to blow up after an o-ring failed. You wont make that mistake twice anyways.
I suspect that with the plastic cap o-ring in the wrong position the filter might have not seated properly inside either causing the oil flown to be blocked or for the oil to leak internally. In any case, low or no oil pressure in a cold day could seize up the engine fast.
Surfer, did you managed to turn the crack or inspect the oil? Putting a light on the drained oil might be the easiest way to access the damage without much disassembly. You can use a big socket on the harmonic balancer bolt (the central pulley on the lower portion of the engine) to turn the crank by hand. It should turn very easily in normal conditions.
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Originally Posted by Andre Cateb
I suspect that with the plastic cap o-ring in the wrong position the filter might have not seated properly inside either causing the oil flown to be blocked or for the oil to leak internally. In any case, low or no oil pressure in a cold day could seize up the engine fast.
Surfer, did you managed to turn the crack or inspect the oil? Putting a light on the drained oil might be the easiest way to access the damage without much disassembly. You can use a big socket on the harmonic balancer bolt (the central pulley on the lower portion of the engine) to turn the crank by hand. It should turn very easily in normal conditions.
Hand cranking the engine should NOT be easy, but still must move. If it doesn't turn at all ==> BAD. If it turns freely ==> BAD. There should be resistance during the compression cycle, which will put up a fight.
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And took less than two minutes for the Space Shuttle to blow up after an o-ring failed. 
You wont make that mistake twice anyways.
