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Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
Don't worry Rick, we'll help you see through the smoke to get that fixed easily. It's ridiculous we can't rely on overpaid specialist to hit the marks.
What did get replaced and not fix your start-up rattle ?
> Parts canon in that order:
1x 2x secondary tensioners
1x 2x 4x VVT Gear
1x 2x camshafts
1x HPFP + roller
oil grade in use?
Mileage, engine type/year
> Startup Rattle type:
short/long: 2s or 5s?
how often: every day, once a week?
🤞
++++ Me just picked up vertical freeplay in front driver axle driver side at 55kMi...
I guess ball joint plastic cradle got smashed already.
It feels like bearing freeplay except only in vertical axes.... so I guess I need a set of fully dressed front control arms.
Is there anything better than basic MB Control arm... Lemforder, MOOG ??
While on this topic, I don't really want a stiff silicone bushing but improved bushing.
Wheels coming off Saturday : rear pads + front Headlights module
What did get replaced and not fix your start-up rattle ?
> Parts canon in that order:
1x 2x secondary tensioners
1x 2x 4x VVT Gear
1x 2x camshafts
1x HPFP + roller
oil grade in use?
Mileage, engine type/year
> Startup Rattle type:
short/long: 2s or 5s?
how often: every day, once a week?
🤞
++++ Me just picked up vertical freeplay in front driver axle driver side at 55kMi...
I guess ball joint plastic cradle got smashed already.
It feels like bearing freeplay except only in vertical axes.... so I guess I need a set of fully dressed front control arms.
Is there anything better than basic MB Control arm... Lemforder, MOOG ??
While on this topic, I don't really want a stiff silicone bushing but improved bushing.
Wheels coming off Saturday : rear pads + front Headlights module
They claimed it was the left camshaft adjuster, despite the scan tool screen captures I gave them showing bank one with the abnormal jagged graph caught during startup, it's still there on bank one just harder to capture now as one or two days it's fine.
About 5 seconds in length. But, it doesn't make the rattle at every startup, most of the time just a soft werr for about 3 or 4 seconds but only when cold first start after sitting for a few days.
So they replaced; 1 Switching Valve 276050027828
1 Chain Tensioner 276050250064
3 Seal Ring 0169975045
6 Screw with Feature 0009903924
8 Hexalobular Bolt 000000006365
1 Sealant MB 003989982010
3 TS Spring F Injector 1770720000
1 Reman Camshaft Positioner
Parts 1639.93 labor 1850.00 Been 5 weeks since done.
I called and was dissatisfied with the conversation. After lodging my complaint, he asked, "Has the car been here before"
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
PRETTY GOOD...
The car; 2014 E350 M276.052, 140567 miles, oil; Liquid-Moly Molygen 5w-40 change every 5k, Blackstone says I should try changing @ 7k next change. Most of the miles are interstate, as I have an 04 Jeep WJ for in town. So car will sit for sometimes two weeks, but I try to hit the interstate once a week if I'm able.
They claimed it was the left camshaft adjuster, despite the scan tool screen captures I gave them showing bank one with the abnormal jagged graph caught during startup, it's still there on bank one just harder to capture now as one or two days it's fine.
About 5 seconds in length. But, it doesn't make the rattle at every startup, most of the time just a soft werr for about 3 or 4 seconds but only when cold first start after sitting for a few days.
So they replaced; 1 Switching Valve 276050027828
1 Chain Tensioner 276050250064
3 Seal Ring 0169975045
6 Screw with Feature 0009903924
8 Hexalobular Bolt 000000006365
1 Sealant MB 003989982010
3 TS Spring F Injector 1770720000
1 Reman Camshaft Positioner
Parts 1639.93 labor 1850.00 Been 5 weeks since done.
I called and was dissatisfied with the conversation. After lodging my complaint, he asked, "Has the car been here before"
They claimed it was the left camshaft adjuster, despite the scan tool screen captures I gave them showing bank one with the abnormal jagged graph caught during startup, it's still there on bank one just harder to capture now as one or two days it's fine.
About 5 seconds in length. But, it doesn't make the rattle at every startup, most of the time just a soft werr for about 3 or 4 seconds but only when cold first start after sitting for a few days.
So they replaced; 1 Switching Valve 276050027828
1 Chain Tensioner 276050250064
3 Seal Ring 0169975045
6 Screw with Feature 0009903924
8 Hexalobular Bolt 000000006365
1 Sealant MB 003989982010
3 TS Spring F Injector 1770720000
1 Reman Camshaft Positioner
Parts 1639.93 labor 1850.00 Been 5 weeks since done.
I called and was dissatisfied with the conversation. After lodging my complaint, he asked, "Has the car been here before"
140kMi... definitely give it a driver side tensioner and while you're in the timing cover simply check if VVT Gear still locks without skipping forward.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
It was the drivers side, bank2. The oil pool in the splash shield they forgot to clean-up was on the drivers side of the engine from when the cylinder head cover or the vacuum pump or both, was removed, the new bolts and sealant on the drivers side front cam cover.
Invoice states, Technician verified rattle noise on startup coming from drivers side camshaft adjuster.
I'm going to see what they say at the dealer, hopefully they'll do right by me.
Thanks Cali, I do appreciate your input, my friend.
Invoice states, Technician verified rattle noise on startup coming from drivers side camshaft adjuster.
I'm going to see what they say at the dealer, hopefully they'll do right by me.
Thanks Cali, I do appreciate your input, my friend.
Last edited by Rickman30; Dec 16, 2023 at 09:40 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
BANK-2 .... Good N Cheap!
It was the drivers side, bank2. The oil pool in the splash shield they forgot to clean-up was on the drivers side of the engine from when the cylinder head cover or the vacuum pump or both, was removed, the new bolts and sealant on the drivers side front cam cover.
Invoice states, Technician verified rattle noise on startup coming from drivers side camshaft adjuster.
I'm going to see what they say at the dealer, hopefully they'll do right by me.
Thanks Cali, I do appreciate your input, my friend.
Invoice states, Technician verified rattle noise on startup coming from drivers side camshaft adjuster.
I'm going to see what they say at the dealer, hopefully they'll do right by me.
Thanks Cali, I do appreciate your input, my friend.
I take that back... not a "honest job", instead it's a ridiculous busy work on bank-2
> RECAP:
-- you have a 140kMi with long startup rattle.
-- You drive to the neares dealer that proceeds to replace all the right parts on the wrong bank.
-- Your car does exact same nasty rattle.
--The dealer guaranteed repairs are entirely ineffective so what....?
Every factory trained mechanic and his dog know the rattle is caused by the hard to move HPFP shaft on Bank-1 intake ie. "passenger side intake".
That VVT phaser Lock Pin gets worned out by low oil pressure and stress from driving the HPFP lobes. This loose VVT causes the rattling.
This does not happen to any of the other 3 camshafts!!
Dealing with
What you need is a classic bank-1 intake job :
- 1x Intake VVT Phaser
- 1x chain Tensioner
- HPFP + Roller!
- (PCV Kit!)
- (check CPS!)
At that mileage, consider replacement of HPFP/Roller that are causing this issue and will be needed soon anyway. While back there replace plastic PCV Cover + discharge pipe.
What wears out HOFP is dry lube condition. Stable timing of fuel pump will restore your lost engine performance.
>>> PLAN B: We can do better for ya! <<<
- You want it good and cheap ??
- How about a $100 repair now?
We can do that as you've paid enough.
- Only tensioner plus good oil pressure and you can drive the next 50kMi no problem.
- The startup music will remain BUT CAN BE IGNORED as good pressure prevent VVT from locking on low oil.
- At some point do consider HPFP/Roller, it's trashed.
Leave stupid VVT as-is given good oil pressure if you're comfortable given high mileage risks...
Happy holidays Rick.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Dec 16, 2023 at 05:27 PM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
I had replaced the CMP sensors when I found oil in them, I didn't wait for that. Oil had barely made it to ECM, I cleaned everything up, spraying down ECM. Then I applied dielectric grease to base of ECM pins to semi seal them against future oil intrusion.
Good to know about HPFP roller, (edit) that's why on startup bank1 shows a jagged capture on the scan tool graph, and I thought it was the phaser doing that. LOL Thank you for that revelation.
I already bought the Oil Separator and Drip pan, I'll get the tube as well, Thanks again.
I am trying new approaches to my health. I'll go ahead an unplug oil solenoid, and acquire the parts I don't have you just indicated, and get a mechanic friend to help do this come spring.
Just to recap; PCV, Oil Separator, drip pan, and tube.
Timing, Secondary tensioner, Camshaft Positioner
Cam; HPFP cam follower. Should I consider the pump as well, while apart?
I'm afraid to see how much carbon build up is on intake valves, I could do the poor man method of manual cleaning them with tools and a cleaner while apart too.
I could save more money by Tig welding the worn lock plate with stainless steel and flip the lock pin. Just a thought. Depends on time frame.
Thank you so very much for the holiday cheer, I wish for you a joyful and happy Holidays.
Good to know about HPFP roller, (edit) that's why on startup bank1 shows a jagged capture on the scan tool graph, and I thought it was the phaser doing that. LOL Thank you for that revelation.
I already bought the Oil Separator and Drip pan, I'll get the tube as well, Thanks again.
I am trying new approaches to my health. I'll go ahead an unplug oil solenoid, and acquire the parts I don't have you just indicated, and get a mechanic friend to help do this come spring.
Just to recap; PCV, Oil Separator, drip pan, and tube.
Timing, Secondary tensioner, Camshaft Positioner
Cam; HPFP cam follower. Should I consider the pump as well, while apart?
I'm afraid to see how much carbon build up is on intake valves, I could do the poor man method of manual cleaning them with tools and a cleaner while apart too.
I could save more money by Tig welding the worn lock plate with stainless steel and flip the lock pin. Just a thought. Depends on time frame.
Thank you so very much for the holiday cheer, I wish for you a joyful and happy Holidays.
Last edited by Rickman30; Dec 16, 2023 at 06:22 PM. Reason: I had an apostrophe
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
You're welcome 
Yes you have the list right.
HPFP is necessary because the shaft gets harder to shift from dry running. It's what kills the roller needles bearing with too much efforts to compress the pump return spring - When you wait too long to repair ignored sounds, the flat roller carves the soft steel lobes.
All that HPFP needs is proper oiling in the first place but the it is located in the worst corner where only left-over pressure is available - - When people don't drive hard enough above 3500.Rpm half pressure is used, bubly oil an all are the what not pressure losses at VVT, bearings... it's the "best or something" lubrication.
On the flip side your 140kMi engine shows that it works.... can't be too bad, nicely used with predictable issues.
Yes you have the list right.
HPFP is necessary because the shaft gets harder to shift from dry running. It's what kills the roller needles bearing with too much efforts to compress the pump return spring - When you wait too long to repair ignored sounds, the flat roller carves the soft steel lobes.
All that HPFP needs is proper oiling in the first place but the it is located in the worst corner where only left-over pressure is available - - When people don't drive hard enough above 3500.Rpm half pressure is used, bubly oil an all are the what not pressure losses at VVT, bearings... it's the "best or something" lubrication.
On the flip side your 140kMi engine shows that it works.... can't be too bad, nicely used with predictable issues.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Dec 16, 2023 at 07:12 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
If I were you... I'd save the cash from going into the money pit: Just do PLAN B! No headaches.
When transmission shows up, the retiring will go easier. I have justlost recycled my Acura due to torque converter ($6k California job 
)
Go enjoy the difference in an all inclusive resort of your choice or... Costa Rica.
When transmission shows up, the retiring will go easier. I have just
)Go enjoy the difference in an all inclusive resort of your choice or... Costa Rica.
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Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
You're welcome
Yes you have the list right.
HPFP is necessary because the shaft gets hard from dry running. Its what kills the roller with too much efforts to compress the spring ,- When younwaig too ling the flat roller carves the soft steel lobe. All it needs is proper oiling in the first place but the HPFP is located in the worst corner where only left over pressure is available - When people don't drive hard enough above 3500.Rpm half pressure is used, bubles an all are the not ... "best or something" lubrication.
On the flip side your 140kMi engine shows that it works.... can't be too bad!
Yes you have the list right.
HPFP is necessary because the shaft gets hard from dry running. Its what kills the roller with too much efforts to compress the spring ,- When younwaig too ling the flat roller carves the soft steel lobe. All it needs is proper oiling in the first place but the HPFP is located in the worst corner where only left over pressure is available - When people don't drive hard enough above 3500.Rpm half pressure is used, bubles an all are the not ... "best or something" lubrication.
On the flip side your 140kMi engine shows that it works.... can't be too bad!
First owner put 58k in two years, second owner put 13k a year on car. First owner used dealer for all services including tires, second owner used independent shops, but used dealer for warranty work.
Once I get this back into top form, should last a good long time.
Thanks again Cali.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
Haven't unplugged yet, under the weather, did try and do some testing from the seat of the car. Before shutting car down, I idled engine above 3500 then let idle down and shut off. Absolutely no noise from the phasers or anything, started as if I'd just driven somewhere but was cold, outside temp was 52F at the time, normally the colder like that the more likely it would rattle.
After letting sit all day, I restarted and it made a brief 2 second rattle.
Based on my oil analysis, Im thinking I have a very low chance of anything causing a failure in the solenoid, so hopefully tomorrow will be better and I feel up to working on it. I've got a 450 mile trip Thursday, I'd like to log it with the solenoid unplugged.
I want to investigate an oil pressure gauge setup. Something a little more permanent, or at least reversible.
After letting sit all day, I restarted and it made a brief 2 second rattle.
Based on my oil analysis, Im thinking I have a very low chance of anything causing a failure in the solenoid, so hopefully tomorrow will be better and I feel up to working on it. I've got a 450 mile trip Thursday, I'd like to log it with the solenoid unplugged.
I want to investigate an oil pressure gauge setup. Something a little more permanent, or at least reversible.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Haven't unplugged yet, under the weather, did try and do some testing from the seat of the car. Before shutting car down, I idled engine above 3500 then let idle down and shut off. Absolutely no noise from the phasers or anything, started as if I'd just driven somewhere but was cold, outside temp was 52F at the time, normally the colder like that the more likely it would rattle.
After letting sit all day, I restarted and it made a brief 2 second rattle.
Based on my oil analysis, Im thinking I have a very low chance of anything causing a failure in the solenoid, so hopefully tomorrow will be better and I feel up to working on it. I've got a 450 mile trip Thursday, I'd like to log it with the solenoid unplugged.
I want to investigate an oil pressure gauge setup. Something a little more permanent, or at least reversible.
After letting sit all day, I restarted and it made a brief 2 second rattle.
Based on my oil analysis, Im thinking I have a very low chance of anything causing a failure in the solenoid, so hopefully tomorrow will be better and I feel up to working on it. I've got a 450 mile trip Thursday, I'd like to log it with the solenoid unplugged.
I want to investigate an oil pressure gauge setup. Something a little more permanent, or at least reversible.
However the weak tensioner seal help leak pressure.
Use a Motul Xcess 10W40 to keep good viscosity unlike the popular Mobil-1 10w40 that's borderline W30....
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
As long as your VVT Phasers are supplied with good oil pressure not to lock in/out, they'll have a longer life.
However the weak tensioner seal help leak pressure.
Use a Motul Xcess 10W40 to keep good viscosity unlike the popular Mobil-1 10w40 that's borderline W30....
However the weak tensioner seal help leak pressure.
Use a Motul Xcess 10W40 to keep good viscosity unlike the popular Mobil-1 10w40 that's borderline W30....
Thanks Cali. Appreciate you
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 356
Likes: 280
From: Gulf Coast
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350
I've noticed that Tasos replaces the tensioner oil check valves in the heads too. It appears they are threaded for removal.
New tools...
Not all tool trucks are alike, some are Meh, but the good ones are like Christmas without the tinsel and mistletoe
New tools...
Not all tool trucks are alike, some are Meh, but the good ones are like Christmas without the tinsel and mistletoe
Last edited by Rickman30; Dec 20, 2023 at 08:11 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,195
Likes: 6,890
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
RAT-TRAP!!
You're welcome Rick
Yes tensioner check-valves are threaded but *** BEWARE ***
They use different type of constructions. Where the shoulder flange is located is essential.
-- If shoulder is located deep behind the thread you'll brake the valve apart in half and never extract it.
-- if the thread is pulling againt the shoulder near the exit then cake-walk easy replacement!
Guess which check valve is factory installed?
The one that requires drilling surgery extraction.
I have two brand new unused spare valves laying around. I spotted that rat-trap and left my factory valves alone!
Yes tensioner check-valves are threaded but *** BEWARE ***
They use different type of constructions. Where the shoulder flange is located is essential.
-- If shoulder is located deep behind the thread you'll brake the valve apart in half and never extract it.
-- if the thread is pulling againt the shoulder near the exit then cake-walk easy replacement!
Guess which check valve is factory installed?
The one that requires drilling surgery extraction.
I have two brand new unused spare valves laying around. I spotted that rat-trap and left my factory valves alone!
