I don’t know Dave Bell or his shop, but have met dozens of shop owners/techs like him who maintain fleet vehicles.
They have a MUCH DIFFERENT duty cycle than the typical family grocery getter.

Upselling customers on an oil cooler isn’t what’s happening nor is it going to be extremely profitable.

Dave realizes the secret to a successful repair shop is to treat your customers fairly, and make proven modifications to TRY to extend the mileage in those usually abused vehicles. NOT experimenting on customer vehicles. If he could do something for free, he would, as there is NO COST. 100% profit right?

After so many years in the business, like anyone who works on these for a living. You can bet Dave knows all about the Mercedes VVT system, that’s why he has chosen the approach of External oil cooler. Which makes sense in applications such as this.

He (Dave Bell) knows better than to apply some unproven VooDoo engineering to his customers vehicles which he is ultimately financially responsible for. Unlike Internet advice, if anything goes wrong with the “experiment”, the customer will be at his door in the morning and he will probably have lost a loyal customer for good. Customer Retention and word of mouth, is where the long term money is in this business.

Raise your hands, how many let their vehicles idle for many hours in sub zero or extreme heat conditions.
Yup, guys let these idle for hours with the AC or Heater on. Sometimes they power on board equipment so are running for hours in extreme conditions.
Yeah, the guy driving these to jobs usually have no concept of “maintenance” nor do they care. They just want to have lunch without freezing and go home after the jobs done.


Good Luck

 

I would love the expert above to better explain why piston oil jets are there in the first place. To cool the pistons? Historic issues with piston-wall clearances across other brands? Metallurgy between piston walls and pistons? Educate us more PLEASE!. I can at least say I know nothing about that so I can "safely assume" that you do with all of your certificates and background

VVT on an OM651? LOL
Im still surprised (and not surprised) that you are still going with this. You should try the other threads. Im entertaining counting how many times you have mentioned not posting about this subject anymore. THAT sounds a lot more fun

 

This is the most accurate part of your post.

Good Luck

 

I’ve done more than my part in educating people here. I’ve got dozens of educational PM’s/emails going simultaneously here. I have no time to educate people in THE VERY BASICS.

This is your job, especially if you’re GIVING ENGINEERING MODIFICATION ADVICE over the internet.
oil jets have been around forever and were originally designed for the diesel industry.

https://repository.tudelft.nl/record...1-a053c0dc3ba7
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...35193311001163


A simple search of the engineering development of this technology will confirm EVERYTHING I have stated.
It’s not rocket science and is old tech.

You are free to believe what you want, it won’t change the truth in engineering


Last time I checked this is a SEPARATE THREAD. NOT the JOKE OF A THREAD that you’re referring to.
But you certainly always seem to post the same uninformed nonsense no matter where the discussion location.

 

What you have said in this topic dont have even a one evidence backing it. You just have opinion. You wanna say that your opinion is more valid or important? Or what is the point of your comment?

I wanna also thank the guys who have done good job and collected nice data. Data supports oil solenoid bypass but it is not a clear evidence. Evidence would be oil analysis.

If you do fresh oil change and drive 200km with solenoid connected. Then drive another 200km solenoid bypassed and then drive another 200 km solenoid connected again and if you take 3 oil samples during that time and send them to the laboratory. 1 sample after every 200km. That would be good evidence of engine wear.

Piston oil jets (also called piston cooling jets, oil squirters, or under-piston nozzles) were invented with one main purpose:

✅ Primary Purpose When First Invented

To keep pistons cool and prevent overheating/deformation.

Early internal combustion engines, especially high-output ones, struggled with:

• Excessive piston crown temperatures
  
• Piston expansion leading to scuffing/seizure in the cylinder
  
• Detonation (knock) from overheated combustion chambers
  
• Oil film breakdown due to heat
  
• Cracked or melted pistons
  

Engineers realized that spraying oil onto the underside of the piston removed heat directly from the area taking the most thermal abuse — the crown right above the combustion flame.

When They Became Common

• WWII aircraft engines used them early because of extreme power density
  
• Widespread adoption in 1960–1980s as compression and power increased
  
• Modern turbo petrol & diesel engines almost all have them
  

 

This is what your second post here? Congratulations on joining MBworld just to comment here...
I suggest you visit the larger thread, and look at some ACTUAL data I submitted along with others such as @Cifdig. You're coming into this VERY late. I have documented the mechanical aspects of the MB VVT system and oil pump configurations some of which for the moment, is in PM's. But a lot of basics I posted, is in that mess of a thread. And while I'd like to reply and educate everyone, this isn't my first rodeo being sniped from all directions, because someone has to bring reality into the fold. It's a time suck I wont be involved in. Imagine teaching a room full of people one at a time. Because that's what forums are like in cases like this. It's because some people have taken this personally. It's not. People here appear to be more interested in talking themselves into this modification.

Not sure what "data supports" you're talking about as there is none. But based on this, were going to make major engineering changes to the way the oiling system is designed to function...

Your quote below is a prefect example of what I mentioned above, about trying to teach a class full of people one at a time. Don't take it personal.

Under MOD-1 You've opened up the piston squirter's at IDLE. What kind of deformation/overheating do you see in idle conditions?
You realize they are active under stock MOD-0 (stock) configuration right? They are active in the higher RPM ranges to actually do what they were engineered to do (and you have posted). If anything, it's possible you are cooling the charge excessively, leading to fuel wash down the cylinder bore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burn7

✅ Primary Purpose When First Invente To keep pistons cool and prevent overheating/deformation.

You're free to do what you want to your car. It won't change the engineering truth.

Good Luck

 

Yeah, not me buddy. I dont tell / suggest what people should do.

Not me. I know who does...
I just follow what makes sense to me and me only.

And thats the truth. Remember that post about wasting time here?

 

Most people here probably have not seen what the m278 and m157 bore scoring looks like in full extent. Pistons are damaged also in cylinders where the bore is still nice in many cases but not always. Even cylinders what has perfect bores have piston damage quite common. Piston scuffing happens because of faulty fuel injectors, poor lubrication and excessive heat.

If you google the photos what overheated engines cylinder and piston damage looks like. It is very similar to m278 and m157 bore scoring. I wonder why?

 

The word google is a pet peeve of CRC. Probably more for AI related searches. Thats just a guess but your new so just FYI

Don't take it personal...(Also a favorite response of CRCs)

 

> PRO & CONS...
I wonder if limited oiling is helping anything or hurting everything ?

I have experimented that 3.5L M276 GDI seriously benefits effective oil pressure at driving Rpm for Heat + VVT.

Now we see diesel Sprinter delivery vans are impacted by oiling heat issues. Not a high Rpm performance engine.

I wonder if the dual-rate oil pump + diesel squirter solenoid are designed to engineer troubles or solutions ???

I can hardly imagine that utility diesel vans are driven around with 290° oil (Dave's Sprinter video).

Hot pistons sprayers are disabled while driving AND unavailable while idling - That guarantees heat acculumated to extreme... Any good reason to max out heat, really ?

> CITY/HWY...
-- Highway: There may well be numerous engines driven at highway speed that can survive to high mileage... surely possible.

-- City: There is evidence that engines driven around city traffic may suffer from ineffective heat removal accumulated to extreme levels.


> We don't know...
-- At operating temperature would engines benefit from effective cooling?
-- Are pistons kept hot to prevent pre-ignition or to upset LSPI conditions ?
-- If extreme heat is bad then is normal heat a better condition??

I can see acumulating heat for 15mn engine warmup but uncontrolled heat up to pre-ignition extremes, I fail to identify any good reason.

I can't experiment any Sprinter solution. It seems that greater heat removal may help lower oil temp away from 300°F. Dave Bell Diesel shop manufactures a piggy-back oil filter + cooler. Enabling normal piston cooling may be part of his solution as well to circulate pistons heat in oil radiator.
This says that better heat-exchanger flow may be helpful.


Stock setup runs.

 

Just so you all know, the oil jet nozzle on my engine ( others too for sure ) has spring operated valve and can only inject oil properly or far enough at approx 40 PSI , cold 30C oil temperature.
The spring inside it will start to open up approx 35 PSI.

Un-plugged or NOT, idle RPM can not produce enough oil pressure to the oil jet.

See here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-pressure.html


.

 

Yesterday a guy I met was in my car...he owns a CLS63. He was shocked as to how rapid the car is off the line (compared with his). More than that, he was shocked as to how quiet the engine it from a start. Could be my oil (Molygen) could be the fact that most of my car has seeminly been replaced as part of "preventive matainance" (as you all know, many things in my car have been replaced). More than that....in his car his "AMG" screen shows the coolant always being hotter than the oil. My car the oil is always hotter than the coolant...for me, and maybe I am nuts - this means the oil is (in theory, according to a computer) taking the heat away from the engine and to an oil cooler .

The car does not know the solenoid is not functional as I have a dummy in place (other than the one in the left seat).

 

When I pulled mine...scoring of the piston was not even a theory. Just sayin.

 

I think we touched on this in the other thread, but the MCT shift improvement and improved low end drivability are on the pro side of the pros and cons list.

The real unknowns are the possible long term side effects caused by the increased oil pressure in the engines operation. And the possibility of increasing stress/strain on parts designed to operate at a different level of pressure loading in their operational cycle.

As far as temperature, this is an aluminum engine with aluminum bores, lots of heat gets transferred quickly in this type of engine. It’s possible we’re over cooling the combustion chamber that could lead to cylinder wash. Look, we’re not saying this is happening for sure, but these are the types of interactions that become a possibility once we change designed engineering parameters. Also what happens as a failsafe, if we do say get a lean condition or timing issue due to an operational “glitch”. Have we decreased our engineered margin of safety? Are our chances of destroying the engine greater?
It would be foolish from an engineering standpoint NOT TO EXPLORE or even discuss these possible outcomes.

Well this is the problem in a nutshell. INCONSISTENCY.

As the idle pressure under MOD1 is CLEARLY at 35-40psi at idle for some cars. The only CLEAR measurements supplied by @JettaRed with an ACTUAL oil pressure GAUGE show idle on mod-1 cars at around 40psi.

I thought you agreed with JR that your oil pressure was 35-40psi at idle like his?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8951575

There are so many variables here, viscosity can also be at play. There is NO STANDARDIZATION in data gathering approaches here.
I think more info on this is developing as time goes on. Clearly even if not all the way on, the oil jets/squirters will open much sooner than intended under MOD1

Honestly everyone who attempts this mod should at MINIMUM, record their base line oil pressure BEFORE and AFTER unplugging your oil pressure solenoid.



As an example of something we’re not even talking about, some of these oil pumps are driven at different speeds. (Count the number of teeth on the cog)
You bicycle riders know what that means right?



See we’re making BLANKET ASSUMPTIONS on engines/oil pumps with different parts, tandem pump, run at different speeds, etc…

@S-Prihadi Let’s chat off line in a bit like we talked about. Maybe we can clarify things, back channel, without turning this into another mega threads. This is all getting re-hashed from the other thread.
I think we can ALL agree mega threads become illegible and data points become lost. Social Media by nature, can make discussing complex engineering issues and interactions very difficult. Everyone’s level of experience here is different. I’m not a stock broker, so naturally, I would be out of my depth in my level of comprehension in complex financial matters.

Good Luck

 

If engine oil is COLD idle oil pressure is higher and also RPM is on purpose higher set by my ECM for cold start, like 30 seconds or so.
If engine is already normal hot, and idle is back to 600ish RPM, oil pressure would be much lower at 20 PSI approx.

You will never see hot idle at 40 psi if engine oil and coolant already 80C.

I have tons of logs....

 

But it settles to 35psi ON HIS car, as he states.
You have tons of logs for YOUR car, They will still ramp up quicker….


We can visit this subject too, back channel as discussed. Also standards of oil pressure measurements as provided in the WIS vs “logging”
And how these will differ with viscosity, environment, temperatures, and a whole myriad of other factors. And why there is so much inconsistency in the results. I.e. some cars show NO NOTICEABLE improvement in low end drivability.

 

lol

 

Without a proper logger, JR data is not complete.

Also he has no oil temperature sensor, a real one. Oil temperature effects viscosity so much in return effect oil pressure at X Y Z RPM.


Engine oil temperature below is from skin temperature of the oil pressure sensor port adapter (metal) using Omega K thermocouple.




Extra 80 RPM, gets 4-5 psi higher oil pressure. Different log, but closest oil temperature.



------------


This is much cooler engine oil temperature.


.





.

 

i had no improvement with my e63S with solenoid unplug with low end drivability

 

(high chance the professionally tuned firmware includes... LowPressure=OFF!)

 

zero chance.

early on I reached out to AMS, my tuner for my 93 and 100 octane tunes - they do not change the solenoid function they said (Jake or his brother), feel free to give them a call they are very receptive (AMS, Batavia, IL)

also I popped in my stock tune ecu and felt no differences

 

Clearly :
-- Your E63 experimentation with your non-tuned ECU found no reason to defeat oil pump solenoid.

-- Your professional ECU tuner reportedly does not rework the oil pump solenoid.

-- You do not provide any data input to guess remotely why your specific setup is not responding. Stock ECU is using tons of timely data. The top one is likely "high cam errors".
Is your original pump worned out by high throttle/Rpm duty ?
Can you measure oil pressure vs. Rpm on your own engine ? (not to fancy, couple points).
Perhaps something interesting for you will come out of your quest.

> Stock oiling works <

 

Yep, mine too.
I guess our turbocharges does their magic well.

I do however like no-shockwave oil pressure change from ECM controll oil-solenoid algo. Its a personal thing.

The best "driveability" improvement I had since 2018 owning this then 4 years old car at 10,000KM when purchased were :
A1. Tranny oil change in 2018 at 4th year of old oil ( 2014 car ), albeit 10,000KM only.
A2. Keep changing tranny oil per 20,000KM thereafter or 2 years, whichever comes first. Now I extended it to 3 years, but still 20,000KM max.
A3. Replace tranny fluid and engine oil immediately after I had fun at the track for 20 laps.
B. All new 4 oxygen sensors, at 9th year car age at approx 36,000KM.

I often exceeded the 930 Celsius limit of the front oxygen sensors during the track use and when I have the chance to drive long distance.
The 930C+ heat accelerated my front wide band sensor aging. It was okey, but it is not super fast like when new.
The very same LSU 4.9 wide band sensor my engine is using, if in motorsport it will last 50-100 hours, so they said.

The driveability improvement for me is not about car being faster.
It is about how accurate is the engine ECM and tranny TCM translate my throttle modulation to drop the gear to the level I want.
Imagine you are driving a manual tranny, you are the brain/ECM and the acuator to get the gear to be where you want, when you want.
If at 85KM/H in E mode my tranny will be at 7th gear.
I can drop to 3rd easy, just kick down it, but that is not what I want.
What I want is my tranny ACCURATELY to drop gear to 4th or 5th or 6th fast and purely by throtlle modulation.
That is what A1 to A3 to B got me.

When I bough the car in 2018, the tranny was kinda dumb, kick down is easy...sure, but not ACCURATE to choose 4th or 5th or 6th fast purely by throtlle modulation while at 85KM/H in E mode.

For non turbo engine, VVT and whatever air intake flaps magic is the only way to get better driveability at low end rpm.
I guess the oil solenoid un-plugged to some made a lot of difference because then their VVT can work better or faster....maybe.

I would love to see M276.9 NA VVT logging with and without un-plugged.
If their VVT improved due to un-plugged, there is a possibility that previously their speed of VVT advance/retard was poorer when plugged/standard.
It also could be too soon an advance timing was happening... no one know, till one will log them.
To me I am happy that standard or un-plugged, my VVT degrees follows what ECM commanded.

As for our tranny which is adaptive, if one enjoys the better driveability by way of getting easier acceleration when being un-plugged, the tranny adaptation will
follow how the driver now drive. This factor alone is a big deal in terms of tranny response.

For me being in Jakarta with so bad a traffic, everytime I come back from out of town on paid highway , where I can drive spirited for long enough for tranny to adapt.....
by the time I enter Jakarta city, even in E mode my car becomes too agressive for its throttle reponse.
In about 10-15 minutes the car will settle down and re-learnt how to do dumb-azz slow creeping traffic elegantly and not jump at slight throttle input.

I may sound stupid and I have mentioned this many times on this forum. My car for crazy creeping stop n go traffic jam : has the best throttle modulation of any car I ever owned.
While people praised their car for being rabbit speedy, I praise my car for ALSO being a very elegant turtle in bad traffic jam.
Imagine a 4wd off roader with down hill assist superb slow creep capability, but on a flat road. That is the best explanation I can offer.

For those who does not know, our brake pressure is also variable.... based on car speed.
If you disable your ABS, your braking will seems "better-bite" al low speed but for super slow creeping, you need the ABS to be healthy to manipulate the brake fluid to be elegant in control.
Soft brake bite is what I mean....if this make any sense.

.

 

I have two m278s. I think that it drives better when solenoid is unplugged. It can be my bias or my other car just does not react that quick on throttle.

[img alt="This is my friend car and he thinks that it happened because of injector fault. Injector washed the cylinder wall. Piston looked good. Spark plug was black on that cylinder. Would oip
Solenoid mod helped on that case.? Maybe.

"]https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbworld.org-vbulletin/618x822/d87115e0_48d4_437b_bd41_483a0620cbb4_c41cf44c1b58c 745b181d04e136e7361e25be3bc.jpeg[/img]

This is my friend car and he thinks that it happened because of injector fault. Injector washed the cylinder wall. Piston looked good. Spark plug was black. Would better lubrication and cooler cylinders help in that case?

[img alt="This is random photo from internet and looks more like piston overheating.
"]https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbworld.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/img_5996_8be15f0a9351722ff79c1fd071971519aef65a08. jpeg[/img]
This is random photo from internet and looks more like piston overheating.

Another photo from same case. Looks like that pistons did not fit into the cylinders anymore.

I don t know why other two photos do not show correctly. When i press edit button. It looks right. Sorry

There are few examples from different piston damages.
https://highwayandheavyparts.com/blo...vr2J5vwLX-gZRO

 

Uploaded again.

My friend car. Mileage was 200 000km. Spark plug was black and injector was faulty.

Random photo from internet. Piston photo is from same car