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Lifetime is direct translation from German and German is an explicative language....it was a true statement on red oil era because it was only about "time" ....not about km. Red oil doesn't " expire". Here it's another story.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by m276Enthusiast
Oh boy, please do not rely on pedal method to reset transmission points. Don’t confuse reset of throttle adaptation values with calibrating shifting ranges against the predefined torque parameters. Another point that I want to make is OEM fluids are great, if you like to stick to approved lists. But always keep in mind that the manufacturers sometimes tell you that transmissions can run lifetime they don’t want you to have ultra quality fluid to keep your car running forever. Make your own conclusions.
I would love to go AMSOIL to be honest (this will spark controversy) but it's not on the approved list... I started with Pentosin, I would rather continue with it.
I did some calculations, with my new buddy ChatGPT.
That means that after 96 000 miles, 13 years, I still have roughly 15% of the original fluid in my vehicle
Last edited by georgiuzunov; Oct 1, 2024 at 11:08 PM.
Oh boy, please do not rely on pedal method to reset transmission points. Don’t confuse reset of throttle adaptation values with calibrating shifting ranges against the predefined torque parameters. Another point that I want to make is OEM fluids are great, if you like to stick to approved lists. But always keep in mind that the manufacturers sometimes tell you that transmissions can run lifetime they don’t want you to have ultra quality fluid to keep your car running forever. Make your own conclusions.
I guess just change the fluid a little early or more often then : ) ?
The OLD fluid still stuck at the Torque Converter is one thing.......
The one we must worry most are those fine grits/dirt from wearing parts which is suspended in the oil and because total drain was not done or no drain hole at the converter.
This is a hydraulic system, our G7 tranny. It is not like manual tranny oil bath type.
Oil is not only a lubricant in an auto tranny, it is a pressure media....thus its cleanliness is 1st priority.
Those tiny tiny oil passages , the fine strainers and so on....... and the piston to piston bore clearance... all need cleanest oil possible.
Ever wonder why VVT/phaser system on ANY CAR, be it Toyota or our MB, will not last the lifetime of the engine. It is a wearing parts, albeit high mileage one.
That VVT/Phaser is also a work-on-hydraulic type of component.
+10 and I will add the complexity of the chemical process between old/different brand/different viscosity/etc and the new one..... from my experience...a lot of foam ( and this add air inside the hydraulics, air that can never actuate any clutch at the specific time period because foam/air get compressed) and in the worst case scenario the entire quantity of mix oil can become gel, marmalade.
Here in the EU we use antifoaom additives sometimes, as even clean, fresh blue oil produce a lot of foam naturally.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by georgiuzunov
I would love to go AMSOIL to be honest (this will spark controversy) but it's not on the approved list... I started with Pentosin, I would rather continue with it.
I did some calculations, with my new buddy ChatGPT.
That means that after 96 000 miles, 13 years, I still have roughly 15% of the original fluid in my vehicle
Probably a good idea to stick with what is already in there. At least you know the old and new fluids will be compatible.
WRT your ChatGPT calculations, it must assume the changes are back to back. You are right about the absolute percentage of original versus new fluid, but if your change interval is 40,000 miles or 70,000 miles, there will be new wear contaminants added to the existing contaminants. Still, I think this is mostly academic if you change your fluid on time or more often. I do agree that draining the TC is preferable and trust the high-tech fluid filter to do its thing.
The OLD fluid still stuck at the Torque Converter is one thing.......
The one we must worry most are those fine grits/dirt from wearing parts which is suspended in the oil and because total drain was not done or no drain hole at the converter.
This is a hydraulic system, our G7 tranny. It is not like manual tranny oil bath type.
Oil is not only a lubricant in an auto tranny, it is a pressure media....thus its cleanliness is 1st priority.
Those tiny tiny oil passages , the fine strainers and so on....... and the piston to piston bore clearance... all need cleanest oil possible.
Ever wonder why VVT/phaser system on ANY CAR, be it Toyota or our MB, will not last the lifetime of the engine. It is a wearing parts, albeit high mileage one.
That VVT/Phaser is also a work-on-hydraulic type of component.
Need to reset adaptation values and relearn transmission torque and 1-2 2-3 3-4 4-5 and so on shifts. It makes a huge difference if all procedures are completed.
also, if you used oem or pentosin fluid, you will see shifting like that without any changes even if you do procedures properly. Not a big fan of these fluids, as the market has better options.
What are you trying to prove here? OEM MB and pentosin ATF fluids meet and exceed manufacturer specifications. I've used all kind of brands including Motul, Liqui Moly, MB OEM, Amsoil, etc.. Not a single difference in performance longevity or smoothness. It's all the same. Unless other brands have some magic sauce inside of them that make the transmission more new or shift like a Rolls Royce, it's all the same stuff and quality.
OP - When I had my W212 and changed my transmission and oil every 50,000 miles, I always just did the oil and filter change. Never flushed it. I learned the hard way to not do any flushes to transmissions that are second hand (that you did not buy new your self). If you do a flush at 90,000 miles and the previous owners did not do any service to them, beat the car up and left all that crap inside the oil pan, you're going to have a really bad time when you do end up flushing out the oil and start experiencing problems.
In your case, since you know the previous owners did oil and filter changes already, it's safe to say you can continue on with just the oil changes and no flushes. There is no point to it as the torque converter has little quantity inside of it. You would have to blow out the excess oil with an air compressor with a fitting.
I will also say that the 7G gear box does feel rougher than the 9G. I just changed my tranny oil and filter in my W213 9G and it was also doing the same thing that you've experienced. Once it learns your driving behavior, it will smoothen out.
600 miles ago I did a drain and fill service on my 2011 E350.
Transmission fluid that came out was dark, definitely not blue in color and the new fluid I put in was BLUE (as it should be I have A089 code).
Car was sitting overnight I drained ~4.5 liters out, followed all the procedures, put 7 liters in, warmed up the tranny to 45c, drained the excess roughly 2.5 liters, so my math here works fine.
Car overall shifts much better and is much more responsive, the last transmission change was at 55k I'm at 96k at the moment.
The weird part comes out for example when I drive around, go to the grocery store (car is sitting out for 10-15 minutes), jump back in, I get a rough 2nd to 3rd (car starts in 2nd in Comfort or "E" mode) and a rough 3-4, I get it once or twice and then its dead smooth again. I have no codes for conductor plate or anything transmission related. Car runs fine other than those two hiccups.
I use MaxiSYS MS906BT to troubleshoot my vehicles for codes.
I'm curios of I do another drain and fill will that remedy the sit for 10-15 minutes situation? Is this something that's kinda normal for this transmission?
not sure if this was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but your math did not take under consideration that you took out cold fluid first, and then took out warm fluid. The warmer fluid expands so you took out relatively less. You may be overfilled.
OP - When I had my W212 and changed my transmission and oil every 50,000 miles, I always just did the oil and filter change. Never flushed it. I learned the hard way to not do any flushes to transmissions that are second hand (that you did not buy new your self). If you do a flush at 90,000 miles and the previous owners did not do any service to them, beat the car up and left all that crap inside the oil pan, you're going to have a really bad time when you do end up flushing out the oil and start experiencing problems.
In your case, since you know the previous owners did oil and filter changes already, it's safe to say you can continue on with just the oil changes and no flushes. There is no point to it as the torque converter has little quantity inside of it. You would have to blow out the excess oil with an air compressor with a fitting.
I will also say that the 7G gear box does feel rougher than the 9G. I just changed my tranny oil and filter in my W213 9G and it was also doing the same thing that you've experienced. Once it learns your driving behavior, it will smoothen out.
I might do another drain/fill just so the color of the fluid stays on the blue side in ~ 1000 miles and just drive the car. It's not a 9G, never will be.
The more I drive the car, the better it gets, but nothing really beats fresh clean fluid (and filter) (and gaskets).
Just so everyone knows, that's a China Made "Rein" Pan... the finish is different and it has that ugly plug, it looks like it belongs on a tractor (all that is a personal opinion and may or not matter to people).
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by georgiuzunov
Just so everyone knows, that's a China Made "Rein" Pan... the finish is different and it has that ugly plug, it looks like it belongs on a tractor (all that is a personal opinion and may or not matter to people).
If the pan is made to spec, I don't think it matters. But his point about Genuine filters is important. Some items you can get away with using aftermarket parts on, and some you can't. Genuine, OE, OEM, and Aftermarket are all different levels of quality. Some very close and some not at all. FCP Euro has a good explanation of the difference.
Genuine and OE are allegedly the same except for the 3-pointed star logo. I've gotten OE parts in the past with the Mercedes logo ground off or otherwise removed, but you can tell at one time they were sold as Genuine.
If the pan is made to spec, I don't think it matters. But his point about Genuine filters is important. Some items you can get away with using aftermarket parts on, and some you can't. Genuine, OE, OEM, and Aftermarket are all different levels of quality. Some very close and some not at all. FCP Euro has a good explanation of the difference.
Genuine and OE are allegedly the same except for the 3-pointed star logo. I've gotten OE parts in the past with the Mercedes logo ground off or otherwise removed, but you can tell at one time they were sold as Genuine.
True that, I've got plenty of "ground off logo" parts
My 2 cents are a transmission works good, when it has fresh clean fluid and good filtration - changing oil regularly and using quality OEM parts does that trick.
Last edited by georgiuzunov; Oct 4, 2024 at 02:46 PM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by georgiuzunov
True that, I've got plenty of "ground off logo" parts
My 2 cents are a transmission works good, when it has fresh clean fluid and good filtration - changing oil regularly and using quality OEM parts does that trick.
I had purchased my 2004 SL500 from a coworker when it was 13 years old. It had only about 50,000 miles on it and had been religiously maintained by the owner and had all the service records from the dealership. The first tranny fluid change was at 43,250 miles which was about 10% over the recommended 39,000 mark. But more than that, the car was 11 years old at the time. Not sure what the time limit was for that first generation 7G tranny, but I'm sure 11 years was too long. I later had problems with the TCM and conductor plate that eventually led to replacing the conductor plate and valve body. I have no idea if there is a cause and effect from the long delay in changing the fluid, but I know frequent fluid changes are very cheap risk mitigation steps to avoid engine or transmission failures.
The 7G electronics are oil bath......
While NEW oil is electrically insulating, their metallic dirt is not. And whatever acid formation used oil will have .....chemistry guru will understand, I don't.
So the older the oil, the risk it attacks the conductor plate is higher.
Oil itself absorb moisture each and every day it is exposed to air, our tranny is kinda vented... small cap on top.
Tranny oil :
3 years max for me and 20,000KM. I do 5,000KM a year max, usually less now.
Torque converter on mine has drain plug, so i can replace ALL.
Since I DIY the job, it is very cheap cost per year, for a tranny so expensive and my tranny is insanely smooth and responsive for a 7G+ which is a slow tranny.
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they don’t want you to have ultra quality fluid to keep your car running forever. Make your own conclusions.
