Yes, it is. 60-80+ yes it most definitely is. Not knocking the E300 by any means.

 

The power output of modern, 2 liter turbo motors is deceptive. You can't just look at the peak HP number. Instead, let's ponder the old saw, "You buy horsepower, but you drive torque". What we see in this E300 new turbo four is the very definition of that statement.

The total amount of power, as in push or torque, is not how high the torque and horsepower curves go, particularly as a simply quoted maximum horsepower number. It is the area under the two curves that describe available accelerative power. Horsepower is a calculation made up of the rpm (work rate), and the torque. (the work amount.)

I think is was Paul Frčre who mentioned his 1963 book why smart racing drivers take engines past peak horsepower, right up to the red line before changing up the gear. There were two reasons. First, they wanted to get the maximum area under the curve by driving both sides of peak horsepower RPM. The second was that each change up to a higher speed gear meant an incremental loss of mechanical multiplication of the engine power, so taking the lower gear to highest RPM was stronger acceleration.

So, enter the 9 speed gearbox of the E300. It allows an engine to stay at a higher average maximum output, because the change up to the next gear has had the engine working over a narrower portion of each side of the peak power curve and the numeric multiplication loss is less between each gear. This fact, these 9 gears in the space of 7, is a critical factor in the performance of the new E300.

The E300 turbo motor may not have as high a peak power, but its power curve is flatter, and comes on way earlier, so that the "missing" peak horsepower is not quite the whole picture. Between the flatter, and therefor, "fatter" power curve and two extra gears, the "less powerful" engine is almost as quick in acceleration, while achieving roughly 15% better fuel economy. That my friends is the closest thing to a free lunch I have heard of lately.

A secondary consideration is every day drivability and here the turbo motor is every bit as powerful, but lower down the RPM band. Why? The answer is partially a good news, bad news story.

The harsh reality is MB engineering resources are just finishing a $3.3 billion Diesel engine family project. The E250 Diesel, the OM651 2.1 was the most produced motor ever for MB. The just released all aluminum 2.0 Diesel OM654 will power the vast majority of Mercedes vehicles built the next eight to ten years and is projected to eventually surpass even that number. In contrast, the new gasoline 2 liter four in our E300 is only the first engine in a 500cc cylinder, in-line 3,4 and 6 cylinder gasoline family. With Diesel overshadowing gasoline engines world wide, why is gasoline still a worth while investment?

What is most interesting is much of the 3-4-6 cylinder gasoline core development comes directly from this hugely expensive Diesel engine family project. This is because the control regimes of Diesel and Gasoline engines are merging and differ only around the static compression ratio of the engine. While this is true, the Diesel version take precedence in development because it is a far more thermally efficient design. With fuel and displacement heavily taxed world wide this is not a trivial point, although it may seem trivial from a more provincial perspective. But, the good news is the new gasoline engines are powerful, lightweight and fuel efficient.

This merging of Diesel and Otto cycle engine control technology has given the new E300 gasoline turbo motor a torque character once the provenance of Diesels alone. This fact goes back to that area under the curve idea. The torque output of the E300 is constant from 1.300-4.800 rpm at 370 Nm. The w212 E350 torque? The same number: 370 Nm. but only from 3.500-5.250 rpm. Because of the higher RPM or work rate, the peak horsepower is higher, but this is at a cost of 15% greater fuel consumption.

Same torque maximum, same push, but the E300 motor has an eminently more flexible power band of 3500rpm and from much lower rpm compared to the 1700 rpm torque band of the E350. The E350 peak torque did not arrive until 3500rpm. Thus, the new E300 is considered more "drivable" because it does not have to rev to make to accelerate briskly.

Between this drivability advantage and the 15% fuel savings, a couple tenths in the 0-60 time is a paper illusion. Firstly, a 0-60 of 6.2 second is plenty of reserve for merging, and believe me, the new E300 is more immediately responsive when you push the pedal. Second, we just do not drive around pulling 6.2 0-60 times. Drivers in fact use the power more moderately, and this is where the broad, and lower rpm torque band of the new E300 really comes into its own.

The fact is as roads have become more and more congested the last thirty years, even the Germans do not drive at high speeds often where horsepower becomes supremely relevant. Instead, the new reality is heavier traffic, strictly regulated speed under 75 mph (120 kph). Here, torque response is king.

What is needed today is a torque rich experience, like it or not. You are in traffic, you push the throttle, it squirts ahead. Simple. What is not to like?

 

Basically, you would really need to step hard on the gas pedal on 2016 E350... to pass 3,500 RPM... and to me- with noticeable lag and hesitation. While the acceleration of 4 cyl. turbo of 2017 E300 is just effortless and immediately responsive...

So the efficiency and the response of the new generation engine, combined with 9G-Tronic transmission... I would say highly compensate for the lack of Horsepower...

 

The 4 banger is definitely a downgrade when considering other performance criteria such as secondary vibration, noise and smooth operation. The exhaust sounds like the obnoxious buzzing of a mosquito. Even the AMG version of the engine that has 134 hp more than the detuned E300 suffers from the same faults.

 

I don't know where you drive, but when I tested an E300 in Tampa I encountered a painful inability to merge with traffic causing a several minute wait. At this merge point the typical traffic flow is about 55 - 65 mph with less than 100 feet spacing between cars. About 80k vehicles pass this merge point each day. I go through it often in my BMW (E60) 535i without waiting.

A couple of months ago I was driving on the A5 to Basel at what I felt was a reasonable speed of 200 kph (125 mph) for my capabilities. I had to stay in the slow lane because most traffic was quickly passing me. Germans do not drive at high speeds often ... (your words) can't be compared to driving in the US. Normal highway speeds in Germany are double what is normal for the USA.

 

Of course I don't believe the daimler quoted numbers. They have an incentive to lie. In this case, they're lying about it being as quick so people don't feel it's a step down, when in reality it is. In the case of the old E550s, they were lying and stating it was slower than it was, because they didn't want to cannibalize sales of AMGs.

Here's some more lies for you, indepentent road tests of both models:
E350:
https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-ben...st-specs2.html : 6 Seconds
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/merce...on-first-test/ : 5.8 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review : 5.8 seconds

Both cars: http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle...-60-mph-times/

E300
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review : 6.5 seconds
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/merce...-drive-review/ : 6.5 seconds

Weights differences are listed anywhere from 60-80 lbs... so you're saving the weight of an american 8 year old. Good job.

You think there's a conspiracy from the above sources to lie about the 0-60 times of the car? Don't be so naive.

 

Actually, I felt personally, E300 Turbo is smoother and more responsive than E350. E350 with V6 feels more hesitant to me...

By the way, you can switch the Dynamic Select switch to "Sport +" right before you start, if you want to add some roar and deeper sound... Also, it will hold your gear shifting longer right under the curve... of course it will waste more gas at the same time... but will give you the performance you want.

The only time I would think E350's V6 will feel better.. is when you are somewhere above 100 mph speed. Then I would probably appreciate the additional Horsepower of V6. Also V6 is naturally aspirated, so it should be more reliable and should last longer, since it is not as air-forced as the pressurized Turbo-charger.

But on another hand, lately, the turbo-chargers become very reliable. And how many people drive over 100 mph anyway? Maybe once in a while... Not in LA traffic for sure.. Last time I went over 100 mph is when I was crossing the desert from LA to Las Vegas... and I still had to watch out for the police helicopters

 

The answer to all this is simple - CLS550.

 

No CLS63. Go big or go home as they say!

 

Interestingly BMW is launching the new 5 series with a 530i and a 540i. Production of both models starts beginning of November. And they have a M550i coming with 4 months of that.

That's how you launch a car. Mercedes has been totally pissing around forcing everyone to buy a 4 cylinder.

I have the 4 cylinder Turbo in our 2015 C300 and it is constantly out of breath.

 

Ha! I can just imagine what that 63 would be like. I mentioned this car because the other day when I went to look at the E class, I test drove a 2017 CLS550 and it was as powerful a ride as this old man would ever want or could ever handle! A twin turbo V8 with that kind of hp and torque makes you feel young again.

This is the motor a luxury saloon needs, not a four banger no matter how refined it might be. I floored it a couple times (I am sure much to the chagrin of the salesman) and it pushed me back in the seat like I had not experienced since the many long days back when I drove a stick Formula Firebird. I even tried to work a deal for it but they would only come down a few thousand bucks and on an 85 K car I needed a bit more than that. A CLS63 would be out of the question for me, for more reasons than just financially. But what a car that CLS is!

 

Shop around. You should be able to get a CLS550 at or below invoice. Otherwise buy a one year old CPO one. According to truecar the average discount on a new CLS is $8k.

 

Have a look at this - focus on average price paid.

 

Yes, there are some good buys and even better lease terms on cars such as that red one. But I was looking at the 2017 models and this one, along with the ones with incentives, are all MY 2016. There are no incentives for 2017 CLS. I found a brand new 2016 on you tube that was discounted $12,000! I did not inquire about the 2016s, although that might be the better play because the 2017s are not that much different. In this area I live, there are very, very few 2016 550s still around but there are quite a few 2016 400s, which is the six cylinder version and has been discontinued for 2017. For this year there is only the v8 550. The 2016 400s are where the very best incentives can be found, both for lease and buy.

I checked around with other internet managers Friday and all quoted just about the same - around $3000 off sticker for any 2017 CLS550. I don't know if this is true or not but one of the salesmen told me the 2017 CLS550 has only a 6% mark-up margin and this is true no matter where you shop. I think the true car average of $8000 off may also be for a 2016 model but I will double check it.

MB is aware that this is a last of a breed as they strive to lower engine displacement in sedans along their entire line and it is evident in the E class this year. I have heard the CLS may also loose that great M278 twin turbo V8, (which may be the best engine they make short of AMG) in 2018 and will offer only the six cylinder version similar to the 400 they discontinued this year. Or, it might be their brand new I6cyl. that will go in it. I think that is why they are asking a premium for the 2017 model year CLS550, at least at this time of the year. Not only is this year's CLS550 a beautiful car with a great motor, it sounds fantastic!

 

If you like it, buy it. Don't settle for something you won't be happy with in the long run.

 

I agree and will probably do so. I went to the big city where there are half a dozen dealers to see if prices would be better than out here where I live and where there is only one dealership. I told them that I need a better incentive to buy that far away than just a couple thousand dollars as I can get that locally.

If that is what I have to pay so be it but it will be at the dealer closest to me and where I get the car serviced, not over 100 miles away. When I bought my first MB in 2012 it was different. The local store would hardly discount at all and I saved several thousand dollars just by driving a couple hours to the big city. That appears not to be the case any longer, at least not as it applies to CLS which no one is discounting very much.

 

It is pretty clear that MB is moving away from V8's in anything but their S class and their AMG models as they have to meet ever more restrictive EPA and CAFE standards driven purely by politics. They have to meet fleet wide EPA / CAFE standards to be able to sell in the U.S. and avoid significant fines. So the MB dealers all know what they have is one of the last truly premium engines, the M278, in a non'AMG or S class vehicle. So they have very littke to no incentive to offer aggressive deals on an CLS550 at this point.

People really have to ask themselves if they really want to spend over $80k for a premium car powered by what would probably be accurately described as merely adequate 4 cyc TT. If they do, then fine. Everyone should buy what mskes them happy. But somehow I doubt that is what most people had in mind when they envisioned driving a "The best or nothing" MB.

 

Exactly right PaulE550. Although I wanted an E class sedan I just could not see myself buying such a great car (especially the interior) but one that had no heart, if you know what I mean. I'm old school and no matter how refined these new four cylinder motors are I can not see buying one at the prices they are asking.

There is another reason why I am now looking at the CLS rather than E class - individuality. It is getting to where I can't tell the classes apart as they drive past me. The CLS on the other hand has retained the flare that made it a trend setter a few years ago. You pay a hefty price for that design but at least its style has remained unique and has kept its own special footprint within the MB line. Many other manufacturers have copied the CLS over the years, or at least been inspired by it, and some may have even improved on it but in the Mercedes line it remains one of the few that is instantly recognizable and unique. It is getting a little long in the tooth now but it is still one of the most beautiful cars on the road. And did I say it sounds fantastic! For all these reasons, I have decided to either buy the CLS this year or simply wait until next year when there are more choices within the E class.

Having said all that, I saw the newly designed Lincolns at the auto show earlier this year and was extremely impressed. They were the Black Label edition of the MKZ (midsize) and the Continental (flagship). I was blown over by their looks and quality - and their 400 hp/400 lb ft torque ratings. When I test drove the MKZ I was nearly won over - but not quite as it is after all a Ford product and I can't seem to get over that. They in no way are better than the CLS or E class of course, but dollar for dollar, these new Lincolns that are just now hitting the dealers appear to be a better value at this time, and by a considerable margin.

 

Well, I did it. I made a final offer today on the CLS550 and it was accepted - I pick it up tomorrow. I hate not to have that gorgeous interior of the new E class but the CLS is not too shabby on the inside either as the fit and finish is better than any E class I saw. This is the MB to have as long as you do not need a back seat. Yes, you pay a terrible price but I think this V8 Twin Turbo will be a ball to drive and the looks and sound of the car are truly second to none (Quattroporte not withstanding)! Why can't this engine be in an E class?!?!

 

'16 or '17? What was the MSRP and the discount?

 

[QUOTE=shortspark;6934217]Well, I did it. I made a final offer today on the CLS550 and it was accepted /QUOTE]

Congratulations! Good choice and I'm sure you'll love the car.

 

It was the new 2017 CLS 550, Twin Turbo M278 V8. The MSRP was $85,185, which included the options of wheel locks, Designo Diamond White paint, Parktronic, rear spoiler, Premium Package, comfort box (a total waste but it came with the car), special AMG wheel package, blind spot/lane assist, rear view camera, split folding seats and a couple other things.

I gave them my ML 350 2012 model in trade which, quite frankly, I should have sold myself because I did not get enough for it to my way of thinking. Out the door and all in with sales tax, fees, registration, etc., etc. was $58,500, which included $500 MBUSA club membership discount. Of course, I also got all weather mats thrown in as a good will gesture which I always ask for (and always get).

So as you can see, that is why I said in my other post that you pay a hefty price for this thing. Don't expect a lot of discount as the mark up on CLS this year is only around six percent. However, if you don't mind the money, it is the best all around sport/luxury vehicle in the world as far as I am concerned (short of AMG) and this includes even the M5 and XF-R Sport (and it beats the Jag all the way around by a considerable margin).

Until the E class gets a proper saloon motor, the CLS is the only way to go unless you want a barge (S Class). And did I say it sounds FANTASTIC! That alone is worth the price of admission, in fact, I would consider the sound this thing makes as priceless (again, as I said before - Quattroporte and perhaps F-Type not withstanding)!!

 

[QUOTE=PaulE550;6934290]Thanks PaulE550, the more I reflect on my decision the more I think I did indeed make the right choice.

 

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Has MBUSA released the ordering/price guide for the E400 Wagon yet?