isosunrise91

Bit of an unusual situation I'm dealing with right now. I have a 2020 E350 that I leased from my local MB dealer. It was previously a courtesy loaner and had 7500-ish miles on the car when I took delivery of it. Warranty is exactly the same as a new car. I am now at 9500-ish miles and the brakes squeak. Bring it to the dealer and they advise the car could use rotors. I have had the car for 3 months and only put about 2000 miles on it. It's not humanly possible that I could do damage to rotors in this short amount of time/milage.

Dealer wants to replace pads for free but thats not correcting that the rotors are all rusted, and have groves in them. I contacted MB corporate and am waiting on a call back. In essence my car has 2000 miles on it, 3 months old and the dealer wants me to come out of pocket for new rotors...

Any advise here?

-PS car as sport brake kit with bigger calipers and drilled rotors if this makes any difference here.

mobster600

Very strange. This car stops very well as is. I really find it hard to hammer on the brakes to stop. Im trying to think it's user error. They don't come warped or grooved from the factory, so the dealer is off the hook on paying. I gotta think the person before you was hard on this car. I would take the car back sooner then later to discuss this. If they can find out if anything else is wrong, that would be better sooner then later.

isosunrise91

As mentioned above the car was a loner before I took delivery of it. I have only had the car 3 months, 2500k miles. No way this is from me. I am not a 16 year old taking his parents car for joy rides. My feeling is dealer should change rotors at their expense.

mobster600

Is this a P3 with the driving assist? There was an issue where the computer was applying just a bit of brake pressure to slow the car. Either by driving to close behind another car or on the highway where too close a distance was sensed and the car slows just a tad.

hyperion667

I don't have anything helpful to add except it sounds like an enormous load of BS coming from the dealer, I mean holy fawk! 3 months and 2K miles? They should really step up and do the right thing here!!
GL to you!

isosunrise91

I don't believe I have P3, car is optioned with very little.

I Agree. They don't want to come out of pocket for the rotors. Do add insult to injury they replaced the pads "at no charge"... thats not helping me. They admitted the pads were fine but thats all they could "get the warranty to cover". This is not a warranty or manufactures issue from the plant.. This car was driven for 7500 miles by other individuals as a loaner. I picked it up as a pre-owed lease.. promised it passed the 1000000 point inspection. do the right thing, replace everything.. and flush the brake fluid while your at it.

hyperion667

Rotors are usually not turned on MB's from what I have read, but my father in law turned the rotors on an ML(his wifes car) and all is still fine. The miles you have is even more BS as I can't believe they'd wear(groove ) that fast! I know it depends on wear and tear, but my AMG has 65K miles and the brake light has not come on yet. Not second guessing you but have you gotten a second opinion? From a different stealer of indy shop? I'd be curious what another person thought.

isosunrise91

I can clearly see the groove/wear in the rear both are very very rusty.. why that is, im not sure. they are claiming its just not good. SA suggested I call corporate which I did.. They are involved, I also made a formal complaint against the dealer. SA is very nice and agrees everything should be replaced some how or another with not red cent out of pocket. Sadly they are just the messenger for the lazy service manager who has not called me once...

bmwpowere36m3

Pictures?

Usually you see that after tens of thousands of miles and have gone thru a set of pads. Sounds stupid, but are they actually grooves and how deep? Or is it just the appearance of grooves. Pictures would help. Rust, same thing... some surface is normal, depending.

isosunrise91

Video from tech at dealership below. Sorry for quality they sent it through a 3rd party website where you cant download it so I did a screen record.

hyperion667

They even claimed the pads were fine: sounds like a bad set of rotors which should be replaced. Lets hope corporate steps up and fixes this for you. Where are you located out of curiosity? Is your environment a factor?
The car looks great otherwise, nice color Hope this works out.

MWmp5

I had to turn off my Lane Assist as the car brakes hard if you touch the white lines or change lanes without a signal etc. My front rotors on my 2017 E300 AMG 19" wheel package, are now in need of replacement. 30k on the car.

bmwpowere36m3

Those look like more than 10k rotors... on the front the holes are plugged up and a decent amount of rust on the pad/rotor face. The rear looks worse, from a rust perspective. Does this car spend time parked outside overnight? On gravel, over grass, near water? What the climate?

I've seen rust occur of the rotor/pad face, especially cars that don't get driven much in combination with lots of rain, snow, salt. In addition once the face starts rusting a little, if your a gentle braker... you never fully wear that rust off and it only gets worse and worse with time. Happened on my Wife's car on the rear brakes, back when she had a Honda.

The plugged holes, again I see once the car gets a # of miles on it and then the rotor will start to form grooves connecting them.

I wouldn't say this is "normal"... the fronts, may clean up with a die-grinder and cookie, the holes can be cleared with a small bit and new pads of course. The rears are too far gone, either cut the rotors or replace them and the pads.

bmwpowere36m3

I'll add, not knowing the pad material or composition... they might not have the "bite" to remove that rust once it starts forming. "Softer" organic pads vs. semi-metallics vs. sintered (full metallic, though that race/track only). The bronze color of the pad makes me think ceramic and those are generally little "softer" usually till they heat some heat in them... usually why the first few stops are "weak" as compared to semi-metallic pads.

isosunrise91

I get home at 7 pm car sits overnight in my driveway until 9 am. Sits at work all day.

I have an E convertible also, I switch between both. The sedan never sits for more than a day.

my argument is I’ve only have the car 3 months and out 2500 miles on it. This can’t be from me. It was a Loaner.

i thought the car has OK bite. Worse when cold. Once driving for a while it stops quickly.. but high pitch squeaking comes with it.

ua549

When one buys a used car they also buy any issues that come with it.
IMO Buying a loaner cars has the same risks as buying a used taxi or police vehicle.

saltydog66

Maybe even worse than taxi or squad car. If the loaner was driven 50 miles at a time for 7500 miles, that's 150 different drivers! Very hard on a vehicle. As you've only had the car 2000 miles, the dealer should step up and replace the rotors gratis.

JTK44

First: rust: rust is common. After I wash my car I see a bit of rust. Normal driving will remove all the "rust".

Second: rotors: I have often wondered how a piece of metal nearly 1/2 inch thick, which is what a rotor is, can warp in normal everyday driving. To warp a piece of steel this thick would require them to be heated to an intense heat and then rapidly and dramatically cooled - something that might happen if you are racing the car and then drive through a puddle but hardly if you are driving in everyday normal traffic.

Scoring of rotors is something else but that usually occurs when the pads are worn down too far and the rivets in the pad make contact with the rotors and score them.

I have been working on cars for over 50 years: Before we had disc brakes we had drums and replacing drum brakes as compared to disc pads went from a two hour job to 30 minutes: We hardly ever turned drum brakes and if the disc were replaced before the rivets protruded, the rotors lasted forever.

The better braking in the wet of disc vs. drums and ease of changing of discs vs. drums, made drums obsolete.

It has only been recently, and I suspect this is to increase revenue to the service departments that shops are recommending when you change the pads you change the rotors as well.

Personally, I have had the rotors turned but not replaced, but I do not even bother to do that:

If when you apply the brakes, and the pads are fine, and there is no shudder, then the rotors are still "true" and there is no reason to replace them.

Just my $.02 and I hope it helps.

JTK44

I do not understand:

BRAKE PADS:

Built into the pads are sensors that indicate when the pads should be replaced. If the sensor light(s) have not come on, then the pads are still good: why would you replace good pads?

ROTORS:


Unless the rotors are warped, highly unlikely, why are you replacing the rotors? You will know if you have a warped rotor: when you apply the brakes you will feel a "thud" if the rotors are warped. If the braking is smooth, the rotors are fine, and there is no reason to replace them. Rotors are "wear and tear" items like tires, brake pads and windshield wipers.

Hope this helps. Just my $.02.

JTK44

Sorry to disagree 100%:

If you buy a used car that has been a taxi or police vehicle you are buying "as is".

This is completely different: the original manufacturer's warranty is still in effect and before he bought the car was certified by Mercedes Benz: this is not an "as is" sale.

JTK44

Just re-read your post:

If the rotors are both rusted and grooved, and normal driving does not clean up the rust then either the rotors must be either tuned or replaced. Most manufacturers choose to replace rather then tune - it is faster and they can charge more.

With only 9,500 miles, if in fact the rotors need to be replaced, I would assume that this would be covered under the 4 year/50,000 mile warranty.

If the brakes are from MB, you mentioned "sport brake kit" should make absolutely no difference. I have standard brakes. FYI the front rotors on my 2019 E450 also have drilled rotors, so this should not make any difference.

I agree with you: if the dealer does not give you satisfaction, then I too would be contacting MBUSA.

ua549

I didn't say it was an "as is" sale. The fact remains that any issues with the car belong to the owner regardless of who pay for repairs. You are confusing physical repairs with financial responsibility.

JTK44

Not to repeat myself: When you buy a car from a stranger, you are buying "as is". It does not matter if it is from a taxi or police with high mileage or a third party car with low mileage. You are responsible for the repairs.

When you are buying from a dealer, in this case leasing, you are buying with the remains of manufacturer's warranty and from a dealer at a premium price as compared to a third party. This purchase is not "as is". When you buy and/or lease from Mercedes, the dealer has inspected the car, and you can assume the car is free from patent or visible defects - and furthermore, patent or visible defects have been corrected

In this case the dealer and/or Mercedes and not you are responsible for any repairs during the balance of the warranty period.

I cannot imagine anyone who is buying new from a Mercedes dealership doing a third party inspection: Similarly it does not matter if the car is used: you have the balance of the manufacturer's warranty plus the inspection done by the dealership. The whole point of buying from a dealership, at a premium price, is that you are not buying "as is".

ua549

We will have to agree to disagree on the point that the purchaser also bought any problems with the car. When one buys a car they are purchasing the physical vehicle. That includes everything - the good, bad and ugly. I never said that the sale was "as is". "As is" is merely a way of absolving the seller of financial responsibility for any repairs. When you buy a new car, you get the same thing - the good bad and ugly. The only difference between new and used is the level of financial risk for any physical repairs that may be needed. Even with a new car not all problems or repairs are covered by a warranty. This forum is filled with topics about issues that are not repaired by the dealer even though the car is still under warranty.

It is not possible to separate a problem from the car. In other words it is a problem with the car that needs repair.

JTK44

A distinction without a difference.

When a defect is patent, it is the obligation of the seller, if the car is under warranty to correct that defect. The exclusion are normal wear and tear items.